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Guns Do Not Kill People


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#31    Hasina

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:40 PM

View PostStellar, on 09 January 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

Look, this is whole "guns don't kill people" stand point against any form of gun control is getting very annoying. Go give every psychopath, lunatic and mentally unstable person a gun then, since its not the gun that kills people.
They're talking about the intent behind it. A person will kill someone if they want to no matter what. Talking about what they use, how many they kill, etc, is getting into details. You have to get people to just stop bloody wanting to kill others. Until then, Pandora's box is already open, guns are out, and I believe I should access to at least some firearm for defense.

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#32    Yamato

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:07 PM

View PostStellar, on 09 January 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

Go give every psychopath, lunatic and mentally unstable person a gun then, since its not the gun that kills people.
Conversely, let's take them away from good gun carriers who save lives every day and let the victims die, get injured, get raped.   The point is, the gun is neutral.   So are cars.   Giving every half-blind senior citizen and physically disabled person a car and then blaming the car and adding more car regulations on the whole population is expensive and absurd because it doesn't address the problem, which isn't the car.

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#33    Stellar

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:11 PM

View PostHasina, on 09 January 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

They're talking about the intent behind it. A person will kill someone if they want to no matter what. Talking about what they use, how many they kill, etc, is getting into details. You have to get people to just stop bloody wanting to kill others. Until then, Pandora's box is already open, guns are out, and I believe I should access to at least some firearm for defense.

Oh I understand what their intent. But if they use it as an excuse against gun control, then they shouldn't control whether these maniacs have access to guns.

To do otherwise, to accept that certain people should not have guns because they're dangerous, is hypocritical.

Fact is a gun isn't going to shoot people itself. Fact also is that there are certain people that are dangerous and should not have easy access to the guns.

View PostYamato, on 09 January 2013 - 04:07 PM, said:

Conversely, let's take them away from good gun carriers who save lives every day and let the victims die, get injured, get raped.   The point is, the gun is neutral.   So are cars.   Giving every half-blind senior citizen and physically disabled person a car and then blaming the car and adding more car regulations on the whole population is expensive and absurd because it doesn't address the problem, which isn't the car.

Are you telling me there's no form of car control?

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#34    Yamato

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:14 PM

View PostStellar, on 09 January 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

Oh I understand what their intent. But if they use it as an excuse against gun control, then they shouldn't control whether these maniacs have access to guns.

To do otherwise, to accept that certain people should not have guns because they're dangerous, is hypocritical.

Fact is a gun isn't going to shoot people itself. Fact also is that there are certain people that are dangerous and should not have easy access to the guns.



Are you telling me there's no form of car control?
No, I'm telling you there are forms of gun control.   They're not given to psychopaths and lunatics.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#35    Stellar

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:18 PM

View PostYamato, on 09 January 2013 - 04:14 PM, said:

No, I'm telling you there are forms of gun control.   They're not given to psychopaths and lunatics.

Ahh, there are forms of gun control. So you accept that gun control is necessary in this case, despite the fact that "guns don't kill people"?

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#36    Yamato

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:24 PM

View PostStellar, on 09 January 2013 - 04:18 PM, said:

Ahh, there are forms of gun control. So you accept that gun control is necessary in this case, despite the fact that "guns don't kill people"?
Gun control should just as much be a function of the people cracking down on government's guns as the reverse.  How do we feign so much ignorance over so much death caused by so many governments with their guns?   Gun control, like life and death control, should be left to the states to decide.   Our rule of law explicitly allows our people to arm, not to kill animals, but to defend themselves.  If you don't like it this badly, then move.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#37    DieChecker

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 05:53 PM

View PostGummug, on 09 January 2013 - 06:15 AM, said:

and a little more seriously:

Is she talking into a security camera? Immoble and looking down at her...

I pretty much agree that guns are only dangerous if used by people. Except that one dog that shot his master when they were duck hunting...

Anything can be used to kill. It is just that guns are able to make killing at greater range and faster.

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#38    HerNibs

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 05:56 PM

View PostYamato, on 09 January 2013 - 04:14 PM, said:

No, I'm telling you there are forms of gun control.   They're not given to psychopaths and lunatics.


Really? Seems to me that a lunatic psychopath recently bought a whole bunch of guns legally and then went on to kill many people.

Here is the real issue.  How do we stop the lunatics from getting guns without punishing the honest and legal gun owners?

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#39    Yamato

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 06:16 PM

View PostHerNibs, on 09 January 2013 - 05:56 PM, said:

Really? Seems to me that a lunatic psychopath recently bought a whole bunch of guns legally and then went on to kill many people.

Here is the real issue.  How do we stop the lunatics from getting guns without punishing the honest and legal gun owners?

Nibs
Oh so it's perfection that's the issue now.   If you can cite an example of a specific crime, a small factoid in the bigger picture of violent crime, then that particular crime is now what really matters.   And the presumption there must be that government is going to administer PhD psychological exams on every upright citizen who wants to buy a gun.   Should psychos not have knives too, or does the present absence of a Sandy Hook-by-knife factoid make you feel safe enough not to care?

How do we stop the lunatics from getting guns without punishing the honest and legal gun owners?

By tearing down the stigma of mental health issues, and addressing mental health with parity to physical health, as if the brain isn't a physical organ in the body.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#40    HerNibs

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 06:18 PM

View PostYamato, on 09 January 2013 - 06:16 PM, said:

Oh so it's perfection that's the issue now.   If you can cite an example of a specific crime, a small factoid in the bigger picture of violent crime, then that particular crime is now what really matters.   And the presumption there must be that government is going to administer PhD psychological exams on every upright citizen who wants to buy a gun.   Should psychos not have knives too, or does the present absence of a Sandy Hook-by-knife factoid make you feel safe enough not to care?

What?  I wasn't "presuming" anything.  I asked a question.


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How do we stop the lunatics from getting guns without punishing the honest and legal gun owners?

By tearing down the stigma of mental health issues, and addressing mental health with parity to physical health, as if the brain isn't a physical organ in the body.

No argument with you on this at all.

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#41    Yamato

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 06:19 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 09 January 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

Is she talking into a security camera? Immoble and looking down at her...
It's called a webcam.  It mounts on your computer screen.

View PostHerNibs, on 09 January 2013 - 06:18 PM, said:

What?  I wasn't "presuming" anything.  I asked a question.
That's why I asked a question too.

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#42    DieChecker

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 07:53 PM

View PostYamato, on 09 January 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

It's called a webcam.  It mounts on your computer screen.
Man, maybe she has a really big screen then? :tu:

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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#43    DieChecker

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 08:05 PM

View PostHerNibs, on 09 January 2013 - 05:56 PM, said:

Really? Seems to me that a lunatic psychopath recently bought a whole bunch of guns legally and then went on to kill many people.

Here is the real issue.  How do we stop the lunatics from getting guns without punishing the honest and legal gun owners?

Nibs

Q: SImilarly... How do we keep the Criminals from getting guns?
A: I don't think you can. If someone wants to buy a gun, they are probably going to get one. The mass murder in Norway got guns and they are like a hundred thousand times more hard to get ahold of over there.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#44    questionmark

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 08:09 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 09 January 2013 - 08:05 PM, said:

Q: SImilarly... How do we keep the Criminals from getting guns?
A: I don't think you can. If someone wants to buy a gun, they are probably going to get one. The mass murder in Norway got guns and they are like a hundred thousand times more hard to get ahold of over there.

That may be true, but we should make it as difficult as possible, just as we are making it as difficult as possible for Don Vito to run his extortion racket.

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#45    Yamato

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 08:14 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 09 January 2013 - 08:09 PM, said:

That may be true, but we should make it as difficult as possible, just as we are making it as difficult as possible for Don Vito to run his extortion racket.
As difficult as possible?   That would be putting every criminal in a cage and throwing away the key.  

Who's "we"?  Your local law enforcement in Des Moines?

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela




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