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Secret Caves under the Pyramids


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#361    dreamland

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 05:21 PM

questionmark must be Dr Hawass good friend. Anyways.. there are caves and possibly underground tunnels. How can you say that collins video is fake,when you see and have a proof right in front of you. Pyramids must be fake too,i guess? I am more then sure,there is something underground ... either under the sphinx or pyramids,or near this area. I think we humans arent ready for this moment yet...mentally and spiritually to know the real truth.


#362    questionmark

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 05:30 PM

View Postdreamland, on 06 January 2013 - 05:21 PM, said:

questionmark must be Dr Hawass good friend. Anyways.. there are caves and possibly underground tunnels. How can you say that collins video is fake,when you see and have a proof right in front of you. Pyramids must be fake too,i guess? I am more then sure,there is something underground ... either under the sphinx or pyramids,or near this area. I think we humans arent ready for this moment yet...mentally and spiritually to know the real truth.

I been often enough in Giza, and Hawass is certainly no friend of mine (in fact he dislikes me ever since I asked him if I ever got my fingers into his archeology and upon his negative response I said that he should then keep his fingers out of my photography), but having been in the actual place frequently enough is enough for me to judge what is there and what is not. And certainly the big caves are not there. There are several caves, some used as found as tombs, some discovered when a tomb was excavated into the Rock, like NC2 and as shown wit Ground Penetrating Radar, after the Collins controversy (yes, to the contrary of fringe claims things like Collin's report get acted upon and generally result in a waste of money), a few minor ones without any visible access.

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#363    cladking

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 05:37 PM

View Postdreamland, on 06 January 2013 - 05:21 PM, said:

questionmark must be Dr Hawass good friend. Anyways.. there are caves and possibly underground tunnels. How can you say that collins video is fake,when you see and have a proof right in front of you. Pyramids must be fake too,i guess? I am more then sure,there is something underground ... either under the sphinx or pyramids,or near this area. I think we humans arent ready for this moment yet...mentally and spiritually to know the real truth.

It's right there staring us in the face but people can't see it.  But you're on the right
track because the treasure left by the ancients will be at the end of one of the caves
or corridors leading to the second Sphinx right under G1.  This is where all the evi-
dence actually points.  This is the Mafdet Linx who holds in her paw the Book of Thot
which is the metaphysical foundation of ancient science.  It's something of a wonder
how they could have known this would be important to us.  Perhaps I'm a little wrong
about the suddenness of the language change. There is a little symbolic langauage
all the way back into the earliest parts of the 4rd dynasty.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#364    cormac mac airt

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 05:39 PM

View Postcladking, on 06 January 2013 - 05:16 PM, said:

Why not watch the video again.  Listen to it as well.

Three caves that dead-end at, for the longest, 300-350 feet. This pretty much blows any alleged connection to the pyramids out the window.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#365    cladking

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 05:43 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 06 January 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

Three caves that dead-end at, for the longest, 300-350 feet. This pretty much blows any alleged connection to the pyramids out the window.

It's impossible to know the shapes or extent of the caves until they are properly excavated.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#366    questionmark

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 05:45 PM

View Postcladking, on 06 January 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

It's impossible to know the shapes or extent of the caves until they are properly excavated.
Or in plain English: We should excavate until the cave actually do exist.


Roman prophecy at its best.

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#367    dreamland

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 05:50 PM

You guys totally missed my earlier post :

Anyways..let's go back to my topic.. I was reading something interesting about the cave system discovered by explorer
Henry Salt. This article is from Andrew Collins website :
After exploring a crack in the rock, Salt and Caviglia unexpectedly found themselves peering inside a chasm-like chamber, partly hewn, partly natural, which opened up into a maze of subterranean passages. After traveling for a distance of some several hundred yards, the two men chanced upon a spacious chamber that linked to three other chambers of equal size, from which went various 'labyrinthick' passages. Salt left Caviglia to explore one of them, he having become bored by these empty corridors and chambers. The Italian followed one for a distance of 300 feet before giving up, having found no obvious antiquities.

What is interesting for me,is that Both DR Hawass and his team,and also Andrew Collins never found some spacious chamber that linked to three other chamber and they never went that far. In my opinion,there must be something,but they missed just like Andrew Collins who found this opening to the caves by accident.


#368    cormac mac airt

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 06:01 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 06 January 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

Or in plain English: We should excavate until the cave actually do exist.


Roman prophecy at its best.

Apparently, since cladking doesn't seem to understand the phrase "dead-end".

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#369    cladking

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 06:02 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 06 January 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

Or in plain English: We should excavate until the cave actually do exist.


Roman prophecy at its best.

In plain English there is an actual demonstrable difference between stone laid down
in the pleistocene and bat crap laid down in the 1920's.  Even Zahi can understand this.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#370    questionmark

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 06:19 PM

View Postdreamland, on 06 January 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

You guys totally missed my earlier post :

Anyways..let's go back to my topic.. I was reading something interesting about the cave system discovered by explorer
Henry Salt. This article is from Andrew Collins website :
After exploring a crack in the rock, Salt and Caviglia unexpectedly found themselves peering inside a chasm-like chamber, partly hewn, partly natural, which opened up into a maze of subterranean passages. After traveling for a distance of some several hundred yards, the two men chanced upon a spacious chamber that linked to three other chambers of equal size, from which went various 'labyrinthick' passages. Salt left Caviglia to explore one of them, he having become bored by these empty corridors and chambers. The Italian followed one for a distance of 300 feet before giving up, having found no obvious antiquities.

What is interesting for me,is that Both DR Hawass and his team,and also Andrew Collins never found some spacious chamber that linked to three other chamber and they never went that far. In my opinion,there must be something,but they missed just like Andrew Collins who found this opening to the caves by accident.

That chamber is recorded on the Giza inventory and that is freely downloadable as pdf file. In fact I have linked to it several times over the last years. We missed nothing. Except evidence of any great caves..

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The most dangerous views of the world are from those who have never seen it. ~ Alexander v. Humboldt
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#371    Mangoze

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:10 PM

View Postdreamland, on 06 January 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

You guys totally missed my earlier post :

Anyways..let's go back to my topic.. I was reading something interesting about the cave system discovered by explorer
Henry Salt. This article is from Andrew Collins website :
After exploring a crack in the rock, Salt and Caviglia unexpectedly found themselves peering inside a chasm-like chamber, partly hewn, partly natural, which opened up into a maze of subterranean passages. After traveling for a distance of some several hundred yards, the two men chanced upon a spacious chamber that linked to three other chambers of equal size, from which went various 'labyrinthick' passages. Salt left Caviglia to explore one of them, he having become bored by these empty corridors and chambers. The Italian followed one for a distance of 300 feet before giving up, having found no obvious antiquities.

What is interesting for me,is that Both DR Hawass and his team,and also Andrew Collins never found some spacious chamber that linked to three other chamber and they never went that far. In my opinion,there must be something,but they missed just like Andrew Collins who found this opening to the caves by accident.

Hawass describes a "big room cut into the rock" in his blog.
http://www.drhawass....ave-controversy


#372    cladking

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:32 PM

View PostMangoze, on 06 January 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

Hawass describes a "big room cut into the rock" in his blog.
http://www.drhawass....ave-controversy

This really is getting ridiculous.  Even if it weren't completely safe to dismiss virtually everything
Zahi Hawass says in light of the fact he knows everything, he has since retracted these statements.
If you look at the moving pictures in the first post in this thread and listen to the voices you'll act-
ually hear Zahi Hawass admit he is in a cave on the Giza Plateau.  Frankly I'd take Andrew Collin's
word long before Dr Hawass since Collins never claimed to know everything and has documentation
to prove his claim.  Hawass is wrong.  Over time (and as soon as we start excavating the cave) we
will find that Dr Hawass is wrong about almost everything.  This is plainly evidenced by the simple
fact that the paradigm fails to be able to make predictions as all good theory does.

This is why they had "prohets" employed in building pyramids.  It wasn't some religious mumbo jum-
bo but these were scientists who could make predictions about things like the best place to build
and the best way to do it.  This is what science has always dome whether it has a philosophical
metaphysic or a logical one;  it makes predictions.  Not just guesses about the future but accurate
statements about the future.  We don't experience this accuracy the same way the ancients did and
mistake this "prophesy" for technology or knowledge.  We have no more knowledge than the pyra-
mid builders, simply more technology which is the result not of omniscience but of prediction; of our
metaphysics and   our vastly superior ability to know and utilize materials.  This superiority is not
born of science but of observation and prediction.

If our knowledge were really so much greater then every question would have a simple answer upon
which all experts would agree.  Instead ALL real world question are ALWAYS debated by experts be-
cause the real world didn't reveal itself much more readily to the ancient metaphysics than it does to
modern metaphysics.  Nature keeps her secrets because the real world is infinitely complicated and
only in the lab does nature become simple (when in the hands of a real scientist and not modern su-
perstitious bumpkins).

So here are the caves and no amount of complaining and hiding one's eyes will make thenm go away.
No matter how many gates the powers that be put on the entrance to the unexcavated caves they still
exist.  They are real and they fly in the face of orthodoxy....


....and herein is why they are so afraid to do actual science of any type at Giza.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#373    DieChecker

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:37 PM

View Postcladking, on 06 January 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

Are you suggesting then that not excavating the caves is intentional so as not to prove the statement to be in error.

You might want to view the video in the opening post again.  That ship has sailed since it shows Zahi himself being dragged through large caves.
I'd suggest that the Tomb of Birds is not being excivated because there is a Method to be followed. Dig sites probably go on a list. Which are then evaluated according to evidence as to their importance. Then the site would be scheduled. And then it would be assigned resources. All of which could take 5 to 10 years to get started.

What would you have them do? Go in with hundreds of tromping feet and haul everything out using snow shovels and mining equipment?

Also.... I don't see evidence of bats in most of those Collins pics. Where is all this guano you keep talking about. The rocks at the "Back" of the cave have no guano on them at all.

View Postcladking, on 06 January 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

I can't understand why anyone would believe this.  He has nothing to gain making a fake film
when the cave is right there and he had a camera with him.  It would be illogical to seek out a
different cave and risk being dismissed as a fraud.  Until there is hard scientific fact and actual
plots of the cave from excavations it is pointless to speculate on its details.
Motivation? I don't know, how about advertising on a website? Book publishing revenue? Profit? Seems like good motivation to me. Even if only the wacked out Fringies buy his book or hit his site, he's going to be making a middle class living. Hardly set for life, but enough not to have to work, and enough to keep writting books and making up theories ideas.

View Postdreamland, on 06 January 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

Dr Hawass is out of his mind... He first made a statement ,that there are no underground caves and then he entered into one himself.
Watch this video here :

Watch what he said after 9:15
" i did not excavated this tunnel yet " ...  What in there ? Why he or nobody talks about it? I am sure he knows,but he wont tell the public.

He says the "caverns and tunnels of Egypt", not Giza, for one thing. And that is the Osiris Shaft, correct? Which is completely man dug, not a cave. And... an unexplored tunnel??? Really? Unpublished perhaps, but Hawass was standing on well used wooden steps at that entrance. I very much doubt that no one has gone in there and saw how far it goes.

You could be right, about tunnels off this shaft, but the Tomb of Birds is an obvious fabracation. And even if it were not, then what would you expect? That they run out immediately and start digging and mapping. It took them 12 years to get a couple rooms dug out for this Osiris Shaft dig, but you would have them go all Indiana Jones into the Tomb of Birds? That is probably why they put a Gate on it, to keep the idiot, new age, pseudo archeologists out of a possibly real dig site.

Here is what Hawass said in 2009 about the "unexplored tunnel"....

Quote

One interesting feature of the Osiris Shaft is a narrow tunnel that extends from the northwest corner of the lowest level. This tunnel is only large enough to admit a young child at its entrance, and further along, it becomes filled with mud. In 1999, I sent a boy into the tunnel to explore it. He was able to go only 5 meters before it became too narrow for even his slight frame. In the November of 2008, television producer Richard Reisz supplied the SCA with an endoscopic camera to continue the exploration of this small tunnel. The team who carried out this effort were able to insert the endoscope only 10 meters into the tunnel before the mud inside made it impossible to go further. In December, the team returned with two self-propelled “rovers” equipped with cameras, which were able to travel further into the tunnel. At about 6.5 meters, the team discovered a branch that split off the tunnel. They were able to send the camera 10.5 meters into this branch before it became too narrow and muddy for the rovers to go any further. The team also found that the main tunnel continues to a total length of about 21 meters, where it seems to end, although it was impossible to determine this with certainty. I have been in touch with a Japanese team who plan to bring in an even more advanced robot, which should be able to continue past the points where the earlier machines were forced to stop. On Thursday, June 9th, 2009, we will begin the work of sending the new robot into the tunnel in the hope of finding out where it leads. Hopefully, we will be able to find out why it was carved out of the rock so deep underground. Solving this mystery will truly be an amazing adventure, and I hope that you will enjoy learning the answer to the secret of the Osiris shaft along with me and my team!  
http://www.drhawass....iris-shaft-giza

So, it is not part of gigantic network of interconnecting tunnels. At least not tunnels that a human could use anyway.

Here is the pic of the tunnel entrance. Which appears to be the same spot Hawass was standing at the end of your linked video.
Posted Image

Attached File  Hawass cave.jpg   25.69K   5 downloads

Edited by DieChecker, 06 January 2013 - 08:44 PM.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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#374    questionmark

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:39 PM

View Postcladking, on 06 January 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:


....and herein is why they are so afraid to do actual science of any type at Giza.

It is really not relevant what Collins says, nor what Hawass says in this case but what Reisner recorded in 1934, when the tomb was first excavated and measured. And those measurements are entered In the catalog showing clearly the cave in the back of the tomb.

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#375    cladking

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:55 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 06 January 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:

I'd suggest that the Tomb of Birds is not being excivated because there is a Method to be followed. Dig sites probably go on a list. Which are then evaluated according to evidence as to their importance. Then the site would be scheduled. And then it would be assigned resources. All of which could take 5 to 10 years to get started.

What would you have them do? Go in with hundreds of tromping feet and haul everything out using snow shovels and mining equipment?

Also.... I don't see evidence of bats in most of those Collins pics. Where is all this guano you keep talking about. The rocks at the "Back" of the cave have no guano on them at all.


Motivation? I don't know, how about advertising on a website? Book publishing revenue? Profit? Seems like good motivation to me. Even if only the wacked out Fringies buy his book or hit his site, he's going to be making a middle class living. Hardly set for life, but enough not to have to work, and enough to keep writting books and making up theories ideas.



He says the "caverns and tunnels of Egypt", not Giza, for one thing. And that is the Osiris Shaft, correct? Which is completely man dug, not a cave. And... an unexplored tunnel??? Really? Unpublished perhaps, but Hawass was standing on well used wooden steps at that entrance. I very much doubt that no one has gone in there and saw how far it goes.

You could be right, about tunnels off this shaft, but the Tomb of Birds is an obvious fabracation. And even if it were not, then what would you expect? That they run out immediately and start digging and mapping. It took them 12 years to get a couple rooms dug out for this Osiris Shaft dig, but you would have them go all Indiana Jones into the Tomb of Birds? That is probably why they put a Gate on it, to keep the idiot, new age, pseudo archeologists out of a possibly real dig site.

Here is what Hawass said in 2009 about the "unexplored tunnel"....

http://www.drhawass....iris-shaft-giza

So, it is not part of gigantic network of interconnecting tunnels. At least not tunnels that a human could use anyway.

Here is the pic of the tunnel entrance. Which appears to be the same spot Hawass was standing at the end of your linked video.

Again, the cave exists so why would he commit fraud and film a different cave?

How can you possibly know what was removed to make the Osiris Shaft?  You can
only see the hole they left and can't know if there was a natural void already there.
It's irrelevant in any case since there are caves at Giza including one right in the
Osiris Shaft itself.  Giza's old name in the builders' time meabnt "Mouth Of Caves".

They have done no science at Giza in decades.  What would possibly lead you to
believe this will change if they just get around to it?  It won't happen unless they are
pressured to stop wasting time on a failed paradigm and to start investigating anom-
alies and measuring the artefacts.

They spent this past summer building a computer model to prove ramps could have
been used.  I don't even need to see the model to dispute it and far more importantly
it doesn't matter if they could have used ramps or not.  It matters what evidence and
what anomalies exist on the plateau and these things haven't been studied in over a
quarter century.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.




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