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Non-believers, why do you post here ?


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#16    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 08:25 AM

When I joined UM there were few people who discussed about threads with their open minds. One of them suddenly stop to post. In fact he posted by never giving his views,theories, interpretations. He stop opening threads. I thought either he got personal issues with job, fam, college...who knows. As time pass I saw him on UM writting. He often visited site yet he didnt discuss alternatives. And judging by his previous posts I knew that he couldnt all of sudden become shallow mind person. So I asked him "why dont you post anymore" He respond me: "Because most of the time I didnt defend my theories but myself."

That tells more about sceptics on UM then everything. Because of their lack of knowledge they attack on personal level.

There are many sceptic members which I admire. Such as cormac mac airt, sepulchrave, Swede, Shadowsot, Abramelin and so on.
But there are many "sceptics" who are here for redicule. They dont teach others with their so called knowledge, they dont give counter arguments, they just teasing.
But this is forum. And its free for all. Maybe its good from now and then that there are jokes around. But when it all whats left is teasing and people stop to find answers on questions they raised this forum will be shut down. Because thats what this community all about. To find answers. Or good open questions.

And sometimes I feel that so called sceptics here like more false answer  then good open questions.
Being sceptic doesnt mean surpression of idea.

Also many sceptics here dont have clue what scepticism is in the first place.

Edited by the L, 09 February 2013 - 08:31 AM.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#17    notoverrated

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 08:52 AM

View Postonereaderone, on 09 February 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

in  a world  of  people  who  have  not  a moments  question  about   their  god  ,  their  job  ,  or  political  ideas...  why  they  come  here  is   quite  a  good  question .

i  do  not  fit  in  a good  church .   i  have  not  worked  a day  in  40  years  (  although  my  boss   thinks  what  i  do  as  play   , needs  pay  to  be  done  with  good  results) ...  people  openly  call  me  strange ,  and  i  have  no disagreement .

i  snuggle  up  to  some  one  who  disagrees  with  me  enought  to  argue  well...   but  frankly...  normal  people  can  take  a  long  walk  off  a short pier ...  i  do  not  need  or  care  what  they  think .

frankly  speaking,  block me ...  your  not  going  to  be  missed ...  i  live  in a world   of  people  blocking  me  out...

i  seek  the  women  i  have  not  yet  met  ...   or  a dreamer   who  wants  to  take  a long  bet that  i  can  not  blow  their  idea  of  reality  into  something   not present

edit:   and  may  i  say  with  true  delight  in   how  the  words  are  ment...  all you  people  are   nut cases...   beleiving  in  sun spots....   every one  knows  that  god  made  the  sun  with  out  flaws...
i dont know what your talking about mister but some how i agree with everything you just said O.o

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#18    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 09:09 AM

View Postonereaderone, on 09 February 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

in a world of people who have not a moments question about their god , their job , or political ideas... why they come here is quite a good question .

i do not fit in a good church . i have not worked a day in 40 years ( although my boss thinks what i do as play , needs pay to be done with good results) ... people openly call me strange , and i have no disagreement .

i snuggle up to some one who disagrees with me enought to argue well... but frankly... normal people can take a long walk off a short pier ... i do not need or care what they think .

frankly speaking, block me ... your not going to be missed ... i live in a world of people blocking me out...

i seek the women i have not yet met ... or a dreamer who wants to take a long bet that i can not blow their idea of reality into something not present

edit: and may i say with true delight in how the words are ment... all you people are nut cases... beleiving in sun spots.... every one knows that god made the sun with out flaws...
i couldn't have put it better myself.

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#19    DKO

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 09:36 AM

I'm interested in most of the topics on this site but I would say I look at them logically and not just believe them on face value. I'm not saying other people don't look at the topics logically, i'm just saying that's my reason for posting here.

Also I would have to say majority of the news articles posted are explained and not really a mystery.

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#20    libstaK

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 10:36 AM

There is a huge difference in accepting that there are mysteries that are unexplained and believing the explanations some folk produce to explain these mysteries.

I accept and know there is a realm of unexplained phenomena.  What I consider when I read posts is whether the conclusions produced are based on logic and reason or fear and superstition.

I have my own unexplained experiences and I expect no one to believe them but I sometimes post them when others have had similar experiences for "the sake of posterity" as it does inform that the experiences are not unique but shared by many.  Science, I believe is still our single best opportunity to find an answer to what these strange experiences truly are and therefore I wait, wonder and remain very very curious about the true nature of our world and reality.

"I warn you, whoever you are, oh you who wish to probe the arcanes of nature, if you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither shall you find it outside.
If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

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#21    TSS

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 10:44 AM

View PostSimbi Laveau, on 09 February 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

Yes,I come to this forum to talk with like minded people. I don't go to sleptic forums to berate people who do not share my views.
Being attacked for my beliefs and ideas ,in a place that is supposed to be for like minded people ,gets very tedious .

This isn't a forum of like minded people, at all, it's a forum of all types of people. The term 'unexplained mysteries' can't be narrowed down into two groups - believers and sceptics. Belief and scepticism has very little to do with why i'm here, i'm interested in people, how they draw their conclusions, how they'll filter out other views to hold onto their own...I find that very interesting. Plus, we live in a world where perception through taught behaviour influences how we judge and respond to things that might fall under the umbrella of 'Unexplained Mysteries', that impacts us all, and should interest us all.

"Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure Science". ~ Edwin Powell Hubble

#22    ChrLzs

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 10:58 AM

Here's some of the things said so far on this thread, about what might loosely be called debunkers (very probably including me..)

Quote

..only posting to creat trouble ,belittle others ,or be a troll ..
..here are also some who cures they complexes by attacking peoples..
..Being attacked for my beliefs and ideas..
..I don't like being told I'm a liar,delluded..
..attacking someone for their ideas and beliefs..
..they attack on personal level..

So are you folks aware of the Report function?  Or are you simply not using it, and would you rather just generalise, handwave and avoid being specific?

Seriously - if YOU are being 'attacked', just report the post - see that little button at bottom left?

But if it's just your views or claims that are being challenged, then .. toughen up.  If you can't defend those views, for example if a simple explanation is being posted for what you hoped was paranormal, or your viewpoint is being challenged by real references or statistics or science that contradicts you, or you have been taken in by a hoax.. isn't it better that the truth wins out?

Or is it more important that your claims are never challenged, your pride never hurt?

All my posts about Apollo are dedicated to the memory of MID - who knew, lived and was an integral part of, Apollo.

"Like the JFK assassination conspiracy theories, the UFO issue probably will not go away soon, no matter what the CIA does or says. The belief that we are not alone in the universe is too emotionally appealing and the distrust of our government is too pervasive to make the issue amenable to traditional scientific studies or rational explanation and evidence." - Gerald K Haines

#23    QuiteContrary

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 11:00 AM

Looking over the list of topics/forums here, most say nothing about being a believer in the paranormal.

"Ghosts and the Paranormal" does no exclude skeptics, to me nor does "Conspiracy Theories" etc.
Science and Technology, News, Politics, Nature and dozens more as well.

None say anything at all about being a "believers only" forum.

And if the Mysteries are Unexplained, I could say the title rules out the paranormal and conspiracies as answers to the "mysteries", as well.

There is nothing "believer only" anywhere here. Even the title  "Experiences" does not indicate in any way, this would be for paranormal believers only and no other explanations are wanted.

Do all ET believers automatically side with and support those who believe in a Judeo/Christian God? Do conspiracy theorists automatically believe in bigfoot?

Open mindedness as well as skepticism is personal and subjective not a blanket philosophy for everyone.


Would not UM rules have indicated that any dissension or skepticism toward the paranormal is forbidden.

So skepticism may upset some, but why does that mean skeptics have to defend themselves on here when nothing indicates we should?

There are believer only forums on the Internet, and they look nothing at all like UM. They are policed, strictly controlled and one-minded. When I came here I did/do not see that.

Edited by QuiteContrary, 09 February 2013 - 11:37 AM.


#24    Eldorado

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 11:32 AM

I'm here to have my dreams and illusions continually shattered.  Since becoming a UM member I've learned that almost everything I was taught in History at school (my favourite subject) was almost completely false.  Grr @ UM!

You can ignore trolls, Simbi.  And debate with non-believers... that's healthy for a forum.  Don't let it faze you.

*old geezer who thinks he's wise smiley*


#25    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 11:32 AM

View PostQuiteContrary, on 09 February 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

Do all ET believers automatically side with and support those who believe in a Judeo/Christian God? Do conspiracy theorists automatically believe in bigfoot?

Yes. You caught a big picture here. I agree with you. I think that terms "sceptics" and "belivers" or "fringes" are utterly wrong. I think thats because our society way of dealing things. We must have all in boxes. If something isnt in boxes its ignored. So perhaps its better to be in box even if its called paranormal or myth. And history of human knowledge shown as that paranormal things could become normal and that myths can become history. Also that scientific theory can be utterly wrong. Nothing wrong there. Its process of learning.

Personally I hate terms sceptics and belivers. I dont see myself into any of it. Im sceptic about many things but I do believe in things which is obvious that majority dont.
I could believe that there was Atlantis once that doesnt mean that I believe in bigfoot or that there are aliens under Area 51.
Scepticism can be aplied and help to all people. Ones you called fringes and ones you called sceptics. For example, I could be sceptic about did Marco Polo exist at all. Which would other find as fringe idea.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#26    Daughter of the Nine Moons

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 11:33 AM

If I believe in ghosts or the psychic phenomenon but not the moon hoax CT or the or bigfoot does that make me a sceptic or a believer? What if my views have changed over the 9 years that I've been a member here?

You can't narrowly define people on this forum as sceptics or believers because most people's belief systems are more complex than that. UM is a forum for people of all belief systems to explore and discuss topics that interest them.

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#27    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 11:45 AM

View Postkeninsc, on 09 February 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

.even though, if it were true......then how is it that we'd know about it? The whole point of a conspiracy is to keep it quiet and under wraps so no one ever knows and here we are talking about it. posting about it. Virtually every week there's some new "revelation" exposed about this or that secret group or dark society. If it's a secret then they need to do a better job of keeping it that way.

So, yeah, I'm interested in learning what makes people believe this stuff.


Allow me to open eyes for you and introduce you answer to that mystery. What makes people believe this stuff? Its called brain and one brain trait which we could call dot connector.
You totaly get wrong conspiracy theories. Let me ask you this question. What is alternative to conspiracy theory? Theory of spontaneous events. Was Jewish state spontaneous? Was WW2 spontaneous? Was Kristallnacht spontaneous? Was joining of Brazil in WW2 spontaneuos? Was malicious vaccination spontaneous? Was psychological experiments spontaneous? Only fool can think yes.

Do you make plans? I do. Everyone does. Even animals. So whats interests me is why people , like you, belive that people on higher powerfull position dont do plans.
Saying that do you even realize how naive that sound.
How do we know for that plans? Now thats whole another chapter. You must understand history, psychology in the first place. Then to understand whats propaganda and what isnt.

Edited by the L, 09 February 2013 - 11:46 AM.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#28    Jeffertonturner

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 11:48 AM

View PostOdin11, on 09 February 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

This question has been asked and answered a 1000 times on this site. We are here because we have an interest in these topics just like you.

I can just as easily ask why believers post here and not on a forum for people who believe like you. If all you want is blind agreement why not post on a forum with only believers?

Do you really just want a bunch of people just agreeing with you all the time? "Yep that's a ghost" "Yeah I see it too" "OMG I had the same thing happen to me." That would get old real fast, and I would bet that after only a short while some people would start wishing that some of the non believers would come back.

Couldn't sum it up any better. Well said.

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#29    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 11:49 AM

View PostDaughter of the Nine Moons, on 09 February 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

You can't narrowly define people on this forum as sceptics or believers because most people's belief systems are more complex than that. UM is a forum for people of all belief systems to explore and discuss topics that interest them.

Couldnt agree more. But in every subfourm there is sort of klans of so called sceptics who even when you proove them different wont agree with you. Just because they see you as fringe. I think its psychological, sociological phenomenan. If you want even historical.


Edit: They become extreme radicals. And I dont think that any radicalism is good.


Edit2: On some of my claims which scientists argued about people reacted as they are fringe theory just because they never heard of it.
Its hard environment. But it must be this way. Its real. So let it be.


Edit3: Whats bizzare that so called sceptics above their heads to science. Which is good. But forgetting that scince theories can be utterly wrong. That science is self correcting. And that peer review dont prooves and disaporoves nothing. Yet we often see posts such as : Was that peer reviewed? Like that means something. Its hilaruious in a sense.


Edit4: Personally I adore this thread. As I said to Simbi. And I understand Simbi completly. When she wrote "non belivers" she didnt think on people with sceptic views she thought on people who dont believe into ANYTHING which doesnt agree with their view. And their view is shaped by family, history, background, education and environment. Phislosophical ideas they met in their life.
And everything that doesnt fit into their view must be surppressed. On that people simbi thought. And yes they dont have nothing with scepticism. Rather ignorance.

Edit5:


@Simbi

Be sure that there will be small number of so called sceptics in this thread.

Edited by the L, 09 February 2013 - 12:10 PM.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#30    keninsc

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 12:32 PM

View Postthe L, on 09 February 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

Allow me to open eyes for you and introduce you answer to that mystery. What makes people believe this stuff? Its called brain and one brain trait which we could call dot connector.
You totaly get wrong conspiracy theories. Let me ask you this question. What is alternative to conspiracy theory? Theory of spontaneous events. Was Jewish state spontaneous? Was WW2 spontaneous? Was Kristallnacht spontaneous? Was joining of Brazil in WW2 spontaneuos? Was malicious vaccination spontaneous? Was psychological experiments spontaneous? Only fool can think yes.

Do you make plans? I do. Everyone does. Even animals. So whats interests me is why people , like you, believe that people on higher powerful position dont do plans.
Saying that do you even realize how naive that sound.
How do we know for that plans? Now thats whole another chapter. You must understand history, psychology in the first place. Then to understand whats propaganda and what isnt.

I'd have to disagree, it's not dot connection. You have to have a dot in order to connect to it and in too many cases the "dot" they want to connect to only exist if six or seven other thing have happened that are impossible or unlikely to have all happened at the same time. I recall pre-911, the Big deal was Mcvey and the Morrow building in St. Louis. Some so called expert said......and apparently no one ever checked to see if he was correct that the explosion could not possibly have created the amount of damage and in-particular taken out this one major pillar. All this according to his calculations. Mind you he never really shared his calculations, he just released his conclusion, so the ATF and the FBI had a pillar constructed exactly according to the blue print and structural engineer's specs and that was even checked against to "as built" drawings. You understand not all building get built exact as they are specified for a number of reasons, so they then have to show how it was actually built. Anyway they do all this and verify it with people who were still alive that actually worked on that building. Then they put together a bomb exactly as McVey described building it then had......the other guy.......I forget his name right this red hot minute, put it in a truck just like the one they used and set up all kinds of sensors and set the damned thing off. Not only was it exponentially more powerful than this idiot said it was but it was actually slightly more powerful than the ATF and FBI guys said it was, but well within the parameters they gave for the resultant explosion.

Yet, this guy is still out telling everyone they rigged the test and he still get like $10K plus expenses to do speaking engagements to talk on this subject. He's still heavily booked, just in case you want him to speak to your group.

Now, is this the final word? Certainly not, but why do people listen to him when the only thing he's proved is can.......as an "explosives expert", can't make what should be a simple calculation on a rather simple type of bomb? This person is simply making money off people who want to believe him even after he's been proved to have it wrong. So you see, there is no dot in this case unless the bomb was only as powerful as this person said it was, and when tested, it was way more powerful than he said it was, so there is no dot to connect.......but people just connect it because that's what they want to believe and nothing or no amount of testing is going to convince them otherwise.

Edited by keninsc, 09 February 2013 - 12:33 PM.





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