91 replies to this topic

[TheMacGuffin]

shaddow134, on 21 August 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:

Testimonies don't count as evidence,show me some alien wreckage and maybe a body if you can.

For historians, witnesses do indeed count as evidence.  This is one of the biggest fallacies routinely heard in the UFO field, that witnesses and documents are not evidence.  Try writing about history or even current events without them and see what's left.

[zoser]

shaddow134, on 21 August 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:

Testimonies don't count as evidence,show me some alien wreckage and maybe a body if you can.

Get yourself security clearance to S4 at Papoose Lake Nevada.  That's where they all end up.

[TheMacGuffin]

E. L. Wisty, on 21 August 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

For similar reasons, the whole "government cover-up" scenario makes no sense whatsoever. If the aliens exist and wish to make their presence known, there's nothing any government could do about it.

It makes perfect sense that there was a cover up during the Cold War, and in any case we know for a fact that there was and can prove it.  We have all kinds of declassified documents to prove that--a thousand times over.

And an enemy can be hostile without resorting to a fill-fledged invasion.  It happens all the time in history, just like the Cold War itself.

[TheMacGuffin]

It was no accident that a great deal of UFO information was revealed in the 1970s, when there was a temporary relaxation of the Cold War, and then again in the 1990s after it ended.

[TheMacGuffin]

shaddow134, on 21 August 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

No i don't to be honest,but quite frankly there isn't much evidence to support it apart from dodgy Youtube video's and a whole host of conspiracy sites on the internet.

I don't trust ex-military or dodgy scientists and retired Astronauts.Roswell or any other alleged crash site,no evidence.

UFO's,just total hooha and bunkum.

But you do trust official press releases?  I see....

In any case, what you're saying is a caricature of the real history, and I recommend Richard Dolan's books to anyone who wants to know all the details about that, as opposed to many of the casual and informed remarks that get thrown around various message boards.

[shaddow134]

zoser, on 21 August 2012 - 07:00 PM, said:

Get yourself security clearance to S4 at Papoose Lake Nevada.  That's where they all end up.

Says Who !

[DONTEATUS]

Says Speilberg ! and Will Smith !

[the L]

What I realy wonder is, if aliens one day shows, would one individual or a group have base for sue his state for not doing anything and not trying to protect him.
Not to mention ruined lives of people who claimed that they were abducted. Alien abduction become synonym for psychologichal problems.
Anyway I would like to see those trials if greys appears.

[karl 12]

I'm sure MOD officials are aware of radar/visual cases like the one described in the interview below (and there are also unexplained incidents like this one within the flight corridors of one of the world's busiest airports) so I really do wonder why the MOD are claiming not to be concerned about the UFO subject.


See 13:55




In the article below it mentions the Operation Mainbrace UFO incidents that were said to cause the RAF to 'officially recognize' the UFO subject and other UFO cases which forced the MOD to 'rethink and then reverse its policy' - it also states that two Air Ministry Divisions were actively involved in investigating UFO sightings (S6 and DDI) - don't know what the findings of their investigations were but if the British MOD were taking specific UFO incidents that seriously back then I can't see them just abandoning their investigations nowadays.

Quote

Commentary on DSI/JTIC Report No 7:

In chapter 17 Ruppelt reveals that even after he had left Project Blue Book and the USAF, friends in RAF intelligence kept him informed about latest developments, on a private basis.

Another indication of the strong US influence on the Flying Saucer Working Party is the fact that their June 1951 final report was entitled Unidentified Flying Objects. This term had been devised by Ruppelt himself, early in 1951, but was not at the time in use outside US Government circles.

..The Flying Saucer Working Party had been dissolved in 1951 amidst a frenzy of scepticism that had clearly been fuelled by the Americans. The response that Churchill received to his 1952 enquiry showed that the sceptics still had the upper hand within the MOD. But this was soon to change.During the period 1952 to 1957 there were a series of UFO sightings involving the military, which forced the MOD to rethink and then reverse its policy. These included sightings during Operation Mainbrace in September 1952 (including those at RAF Topcliffe), the West Malling incident on 3 November 1953, Flight Lieutenant Salandin’s near-collision with a UFO on 14 October 1954, the Lakenheath/Bentwaters radar/visual sightings on 13 and 14 August 1956 and the RAF West Freugh incident on 4 April 1957.

High-profile sightings such as these, together with the increasing number of reports from the general public, pushed the sceptics within MOD onto the defensive. The Flying Saucer Working Party’s recommendation that UFO sightings should not be investigated was overturned and by the mid-Fifties two Air Ministry Divisions were actively involved in investigating UFO sightings. The divisions concerned were S6, a civilian secretariat division on the air staff, and DDI(Tech), a technical intelligence division. Their brief was to research and investigate the UFO phenomenon looking for evidence of any threat to the UK.

Full Article

Edited by karl 12, 21 August 2012 - 10:23 PM.

[karl 12]

1963, on 19 August 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

But to tell you the truth Mac'...I can't say that i'm sad about the announcement myself!...for the simple reason that I have never thought that the 'UFO Desk' at Whitehall was anything more than a Front created solely to placate the general public's thirst for knowledge!..and that the real investigatory actions are, and always have been performed behind some Very Thick doors!

1963, some very thick doors indeed.

I remember retired Bluebook Chief Colonel Robert Friend once said that during his tenure there were 'classified intelligence channels for reporting UFO's that completely bypassed Bluebook' and government docs also exist which state that 'UFO reports that were a threat to national security weren't even part of the Bluebook system' (link) so maybe there's a parallel British equivalent  that's been operating somewhere for quite some time (speculative opinion of course).

Also, when it comes to the MOD I always found this quote from one of their senior officials to be quite a revealing one..  

Quote

"Here we had a number of object seen coming in across the North Sea on coastal radar. It looked like a Russian mistake. Jet aircraft were scrambled. The objects were travelling at quite impossible speeds like 4-5000 mph and then came to an abrupt halt near to one of these stations not very high up. Jet aircraft picked them up on aircraft radar. The objects then simply made rings round them."

"Inevitably this led to the sort of enquiry which you would put in hand if you had any military responsibilities. Had something gone wrong with ground radar or with aircraft radar? We experienced pilots going out of their minds? Were people having fantasies? We *had* to investigate cases of that kind. Over the years - although there were not an enormous number of such cases - there were a sufficient number to persuade me, and a number of air staff friends with whom I had to work, that something was going on, sporadically, in British airspace which we could not explain."

"But we did not particularly want to make public statements about that. Not for something that we had no explanation."

Ralph Noyes,Senior Official with British Air Ministry - retired as Under Secretary of State in 1977

link

Here's what Jacques Vallee also had to say about censorship and manipulation of UFO data when governments 'encouraged secret briefings' and 'funded classified research' whilst all the time pretending to the public the subject was nonsense - pretty interesting statement, especially from a man of his calibre.

Quote

"Governments took notice, organizing task forces, encouraging secret briefings and study groups, funding classified research and all the time denying before the public that any of the phenomena might be real. The major revelation of these Diaries may be the demonstration of how the scientific community was misled by the government, how the best data were kept hidden, and how the public record was shamelessly manipulated."

Dr. Jacques Vallee, astrophysicist, computer scientist 1992

link

Cheers!

[karl 12]

TheMacGuffin, on 19 August 2012 - 08:50 PM, said:

That makes me think of a metaphor that many UFOs records just go up and up and out of sight, like the UFOs themselves.  LOL

Amen to that mate - there's an incident described in this thread where the British MOD document was said to be so so sensitive that "an extra three years was added to its 25 year release date" and another case in the first post here that was so sensitive the MOD 'broke with all official protocol when reporting and investigating the incident'.
I suppose it could be seen as a little irresponsible for the MOD to end all 'official investigations' into the UFO subject in light of all these sensitive and unexplained UFO incidents.  
Cheers.

[DONTEATUS]

THe MoD wouldnt know a UFO if it landed on -em !

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[Occams Razor]

I think it makes perfect sense for the MOD not to consider UFOs as a real defense threat.

There is actually no point whatsoever in trying to defend against a hostile alien attack, we would get seriously creamed, the end.

I think Seth Shostak the SETI scientist summed it up quite nicely when he said something like "it would be like cavemen spending money to defend themselves against an attack by the USAF, their money would be better spent elsewhere".

Edited by Occams Razor, 25 August 2012 - 02:44 PM.

[Occams Razor]

747400, on 20 August 2012 - 08:50 AM, said:

Why are you ok with that? Because the MoD, having studied the subject exhaustively, knows that UFOs aren't extraterrestrial spacecraft? Or even more pertinently, that they know for a fact that they're not aircraft of any kind? If the MoD really did believe that, would you really be ok with that? Would you not feel slightly concerned that they seem to treat the question of unauthorised incursions into their airspace in such a casual way?

Not really. If nothing can be done about it why worry about it? Why spend money on UFOs when there are so many tangible problems that need money spent on them.

It's not as though UFOs are buzzing airliners and abducting people on a regular basis. If the UFOs are indeed extraterrestrial spacecraft they can't be hostile or we would know about it by now. And if they were hostile we couldn't defend ourselves against them anyway, so why worry about it?

[DONTEATUS]

I keep hearing that tune  that Bobby Mc Farin does ! "Dont worrie Be HAPPY "