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SSS Bob Barker Battles Japanese Fleet


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#16    Yamato

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 05:58 AM

I think the real reason why nobody cries crocodile tears about poachers in Africa is because the poachers in Africa are very poor and they're also very black.   So the stark contrast between them being murdered for their crimes with nobody even getting seriously injured by Sea Shepherd's actions is just too much to stomach for the whale meaters.   These illegal Japanese poachers are propped up by theoretically infinite taxpayer subsidies, enjoying a massive operation with their big shiny fleets of ships and hundred-million dollar credit lines, so naturally in contrast to the black guy with the rusty pickup truck, they must be "legitimate".  But the color of right isn't made by might or money.   It's made by passion and courage, and never giving up no matter what.

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#17    psyche101

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 07:37 AM

View PostYamato, on 28 February 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

How do you maintain a moratorium?  

You do realise that even just membership to the IWC, let alone signing of the moratorium is completely voluntary don't you? Japan does not even have to be involved at all. What does that tell you?

View PostYamato, on 28 February 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

You confront the criminals in a whale sanctuary and shut them down.  You don't document the slaughter, and take pictures, and paint rainbows, and beg and plead for them to stop killing whales because they won't.   If Japan has to go broke, then they're well on their way to that already.   Kudos to Watson for speeding up that process.

The Sanctuary is imposed by the IWC, again, it is not an Internationally recognised claim. Many countries other than Japan do not recognise this claim. You have to work within the boundaries of the law, you can't just make them up and enforce them. No law has been broken officially.



LOL, Japan go broke? Surely you jest! Ever heard of Kodak, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Pioneer, Citizen Casio, Dihatsu, Fuji.... etc etc etc. If Australia sufficiently annoy Japan and Japan closes down it's factories, hundreds of thousands of Aussies will be out of work overnight. Australia will pay, not Japan. So will many countries.

The only process Watson keeps alive is whaling. As long as that pirate terrorises waters, the whalers will return.

View PostYamato, on 28 February 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

The percentage they get of their quota is reported by the Japanese themselves.   They couldn't even haul 20% of what they wanted on Sea Shepherd's banner year.  At over 1000 whales per quota, do the math.   Even lowballing the $$ per whale, that's 200 million dollars of losses in one year alone.  I don't know what "damages" are, but I wouldn't call not reaching one's quota "damages".

So you agree the Japanese do not say the Sea Shepherd is effective, they say they are damaging?

View PostYamato, on 28 February 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

As for your other comments sucking up to criminal poachers, they're baseless and need evidence to be believed.  

I am not sucking up, I want the Japanese gone, that is why I want the Sea Shepherd grounded.

Baseless huh? Here you go.




1977: Founding member of Greenpeace, Paul Watson, expelled from the organisation after a campaign against sealing during which he threw the sealers’ clubs and skins into the sea.

1977: Watson establishes Sea Shepherd organisation. States that Sea Shepherd is not a protest organization. “We are [a] self-appointed policing organization given credibility by the terms of the United Nations Earth Charter of 1982.”

1978: Watson admits to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC) programme As It Happens that his work is aimed at raising funds for his organisation, Sea Shepherd. Watson: “You see, the seal is very easy to exploit as an image. We have posters, we have buttons; we have shirts … all of which portray the head of the baby seal with tears coming out of its eyes. Baby seals are always crying because the salt tears keep their eyes from freezing. But they have this image of ... they are baby animals; they are beautiful. And because of that, coupled with the horror of the sealer hitting them over the head with a club, it is an image which just goes right to the heart of animal lovers all over North America.”


1979: A Sea Shepherd vessel rams the whaling vessel “Sierra”, causing considerable damage. “Sierra” survives attack.

1980: The IWC at its meeting in Brighton, United Kingdom, assigns high-level protection to two Canadian Government delegates after Watson threatened to kill them for voting against a moratorium on sperm whales. Delegates given Royal Canadian Mounted Police protection until their return home to Canada.

1980: The “Sierra” is sunk in Lisbon harbour. Sea Shepherd claims responsibility. Investigation shows limpet mines used to blow up the vessel.

1981: Sea Shepherd claims responsibility for the sinking of the two whaling vessels, Ibsa I and Ibsa II, in the Spanish harbour of Viga.

1983: Paul Watson and “Sea Shepherd” vessel engineer Paul Pezwick, tried and convicted in a Quebec, Canada, court for “interfering in the annual seal hunt in the Gulf of St. Lawrence”. Trial followed arrest in March 1983 when “Sea Shepherd” vessel boarded by Canadian police. “Sea Shepherd” fortified including electric barbed wire around the deck’s edges. Seventeen crew arrested. Watson and three others flee across ice to Cape Breton, Nova Scotia, but caught and arrested. Watson charged additionally with piloting a ship in a dangerous manner, intimidation of the sealers and being unlawfully within a half mile of the seal hunt – a violation of the Seal Protection Regulations. Watson sentenced to 15 months imprisonment.

1983: In retaliation for Watson’s arrest by Canadian police, animal rights extremists slash car tires and spray paint slogans on walls of buildings in the inner city of Quebec. “Fisheries Murder Seals” and “Set Paul Watson Free” slogans spray painted on the Department of Fisheries and Oceans offices in Keele Street. Animal Liberation Front delivers letter to the Quebec Star newspaper admitting causing several thousand dollars worth of damage to the Department’s Keele Street offices.1986: Sea Shepherd attempts to stop Faroe Islands pilot whale harvest. Using rifles, Sea Shepherd activists shoot at Faroe Islands police in an attempt to sink their rubber dinghies. The vessel “Sea Shepherd” was ordered to leave Faroese territorial waters. The police report of 7 October 1986 states: “One of the rubber dinghies was attacked directly by a “Speed Line” line rifle. The attack … endangered the lives of the police crew members ... and signal flares containing phosphorous was thrown at the police. At a later stage the Sea Shepherd used “toads” (rotating iron spikes, pointed and sharp at both ends) against the rubber dinghies … petrol was poured over the side of the ship and signal flares were thrown from the “Sea Shepherd” in an attempt to set the petrol on fire.”

1986: Sea Shepherd claims responsibility for the sinking of two whaling vessels in Reykjavik, Iceland, and for malicious damage to a whaling station. (This act of violence was carried out after Iceland stopped whaling in line with the IWC moratorium on commercial whaling.) Attack carried out by Sea Shepherd members Rodney A. Coronado and David Howitt. (Coronado linked to Animal Liberation Front and arrested eight years later by United States FBI for his part in an ALF attack on Michigan State University research laboratory. Charges included use of an explosive device, theft and arson.)

1988: Paul Watson returns in Iceland demanding to be held responsible for the sinking of the whaling vessels in Reykjavik in 1986. (He is arrested and held for questioning and told he could face several years’ imprisonment. In a press release, the Icelandic Ministry of Justice stated: “At questioning, Paul Watson has admitted that he has given some remarks that connect him with the sabotage, but in spite of this he now claims that he neither took part in the planning nor the execution of the sabotage.”) There was no evidence incriminating Watson. He was ordered to leave the country and declared persona non grata in Iceland.

1991: A US crew member on a Mexican fishing vessel, reports that Sea Shepherd, some of whose crew were armed with rifles, rammed his vessel causing considerable damage.

1991: Scott Trimmingham, president of Sea Shepherd quits in protest. “We had rules about not hurting anyone, about not using weapons. I left because those rules and that philosophy seems to be changing.” Outside magazine (Sept. 1991). Paul Watson admits there are arms on board “Sea Shepherd”. “We confront dangerous people. As the captain, it is my responsibility to protect the lives of my crew ... Therefore, I have prepared myself for the possibility of defending my crew in a situation that could go never occur, but if it does I will use firearms to first intimidate and then to defend,” Watson tells the Los Angeles Free Weekly (April 24, 1992).

1992: Sea Shepherd makes unsuccessful attempts at ramming three Costa Rican fishing vessels. In a written complaint to the local authorities the fishermen report that the Sea Shepherd crew shot at them with bullets containing a red substance, hitting two of them and causing them great pain.

1992: Sea Shepherd makes unsuccessful attempt at scuttling the whaling and fishing vessel “Nybræna” at her moorings in the Lofoten Islands, northern Norway. Attack committed by Paul Watson, girlfriend Lisa DiStefano and one other Sea Shepherd member. Watson later states: “The scuttling of the Nybræna was not a terrorist or criminal act. We were responsible for removing an instrument of death and destruction without causing death or injury.” Charges laid against Watson, who fails to turn up in court. Watson convicted in absentia and sentenced to 120 days in prison.

1992: Sea Shepherd vessel “Whales Forever” collides with Norwegian Coast Guard vessel “Andenes” on July 4. Charges against Paul Watson include negligent navigation, refusal to leaveNorwegian waters on orders of the Coast Guard and transmitting false distress signals. (Tape supplied)

1993: Paul Watson orders the crew on board the Sea Shepherd vessel “Edward Abbey” (formerly US Navy) to open cannon fire at a Japanese fishing vessel. Sea Shepherd crew do not carry out the order, but instead fire a shot across the bow of the Japanese vessel. The Japanese vessel does not stop. (Recorded by Yorkshire Television Documentary “Defenders of the Wild – Ocean Rider”.)

1993: Paul Watson claims in an open letter to the people of Norway that Sea Shepherd has sunk eight ships and rammed and damaged a further six vessels. In the same letter, he states: “The Sea Shepherd Conservation Society is a law abiding organization. We rigidly adhere to and respect the laws of nature or lex natura. We hold the position that the laws of ecology take precedence over the laws designed by nation states to protect corporate interests … the smell of guilt is already a stench in the nostrils of God.”

1993: Federal Grand Jury in Michigan State hands down five-count indictment against Coronado for illegal use of explosives, extortion, threats to interfere with interstate commerce and interstate transportation, to commit arson, theft and destruction of government property and for receiving stolen property. Indictments stem from February 1992 fire-bombing of Michigan State University in East Lancing. Coronado involved in sinking two whaling vessels in Iceland in 1986.

1994: Sea Shepherd claims responsibility for the unsuccessful attempt at scuttling the combined minke whaling and fishing vessel “Senet” at her moorings in Gressvik. The vessel was salvaged, but the water had caused considerable damage. Paul Watson tells Norwegian newspaper Dagbladet on January 26 that former US navy “Seal” commandos took part in attack on the Senet. “Certainly these men are trained to kill, but they are also well disciplined and respect my orders,” he told the newspaper.

1994: Sea Shepherd loses observer status at the International Whaling Commission. IWC Secretary, Ray Gambell, declares that the IWC and all its member states ardently condemn Sea Shepherd’s acts of terrorism.

1994: US National Fisheries Institute asks for investigation into Sea Shepherd. “The recent alleged actions against Norwegian fishing vessels constitute a clear case of piracy,” it says in a letter to former US IWC Commissioner James Baker. “Acts of violence against fishermen of any nation cannot be tolerated. Their safety and livelihood could be threatened unless US officials vigorously condemn violence on the high seas.”

1997: Paul Watson arrested at Schiphol Airport in Amsterdam, Netherlands, for the 1992 attempted scuttling of the Norwegian combined whaling and fishing vessel “Nybræna”. Arrested by Dutch police after Interpol issues warrant. Serves 80 days in prison in the Netherlands, the equivalent of the necessary two-thirds of the 120-day prison sentence handed down by Norway.

2000: Watson campaigns against the Makah people of Northwest United States. He uses intimidation to prevent the Makah from carrying out their IWC approved catch of the gray whale.

2002: Watson tells Animal Rights 2002 Conference in Washington DC that if a person dies from one of his actions, he would consider it “collateral damage”. He believes it is not possible to “commit violence against non-sentient objects. Property damage is not violence.”




Now as for baseless, did you notice that the International Whaling Commission removed their observer status, and call them terrorists? You would the the IWC would have Cetaceans best interests at heart, wouldn't you?

Or how about the way he uses Baby Harp seals to tug at heartstrings? Would you call that noble?


View PostYamato, on 28 February 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

The Japanese are whaling in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary.  What part of the word "sanctuary" can you not understand?  

Quite frankly, I seem to have a much better understanding than you do. You do not seem to understand that joining the IWC is a voluntary action, Japan do not have to attend. As such, they are bound to none of these fictional laws you keep insisting exist.

View PostYamato, on 28 February 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

You don't have a lick of respect for international law, for exclusive economic zones, for whale sanctuaries, for charters for nature or for global moratoriums on whaling.   There's all the rules and regulations already on the books I could ask for, all that's missing is government will to scrape themselves off the lazy mat and do something about it.  

Again, I seem to have a better grasp on International Law than you do. Any treaty has to be signed by all parties considering international law, or it is not a recognised claim. Much like buying land on the moon.


I have quoted more rules and regulations than you have, please show me what regulation allows piracy and terrorism in International Waters.

View PostYamato, on 28 February 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

Until then, Sea Shepherd gets the job done.

What a misguided statement. Gets the job one? You do realise that Watson put this merry band of pirates together like 35 or more years ago? In that time, the only things that ever stopped whaling was negotiations. Japan actually agreed to stop altogether. Do you know what set Whaling going again? Bully tactics. The US decided they would impose restrictions on Japans fishing territories, so Japans said if you are going to go back on your word, so will we. And the Sea Shepherd keeps making the same mistake the US did all the at time ago, every year.
It is circular, as long as the Sea Shepard stays in operation, whaling will continue.

View PostYamato, on 28 February 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

Claiming that Japan doesn't illegally whale in Australian waters is making Australian sources for information sound unreliable.   Sorry, I trust what Australian officials have to say regardless of your still-baseless opinion about the matter.   I trust Australia's better judgment not to let Japanese whaling ships make port on its shores.  

As for still baseless, have a look up at the list of charges. And the International Whaling Commissions description.

As opposed to Australian Politicians, I would strongly suggest you seek out a qualified Marine Biologist and ask them. In fact I used to hold the same opinion as you, and like you, I too mouthed of with the garbage Watson had told me, and it turned out, it was all wrong. Thankfully, the learned people understood that Watson twists public opinion, and they were kind enough to allow me to rant and rave whilst they quietly and patiently answered each and every claim and objection, as I have tried to do here with you. I do not claim to have the good manners those people did, but I hope I have learned something from them at least.

Well, yes, the sources are unreliable. Good God man, have you not seen our PM? What a joke! The previous Government was head and shoulders over this bunch of numpties. Burke is an idiot, Brown has always put the cart before the horse. As you have so much trust in them, perhaps you could ask them about our sovereign waters, and ask them which part has been breached? Then you could let us all know  While you are there, please ask them why our Cetacean research and conservation is a dead set joke. Save the Whales? We have Dolphins in captivity all over the place. New Zealand outlawed that ages ago, our trans-oceanic cousins are way ahead of us in regards to conservation. And what about the Shark Nets? Acoustic devices have proven themselves superior, but we keep killing whales, turtles and everything else that swims into it year round. Watson does not say anything about the areas where Australia can improve, because they allow him to dock. I have stood right next to the Steve Irwin, gazing in wonder, but that was before I met the Marine Biologists I mentioned. Graft and corruption but hey, we do not stand for that do we.

View PostYamato, on 28 February 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

Whether Australia is effective legally against Japan remains to be seen, but in the meantime Sea Shepherd will keep the slaughter to a minimum.  

It's the best bet so far. I jus hope it does not backfire, but thanks to the efforts of Greenpeace proving that whale meat makes it to the commercial market, we might just yet embarrass them into behaving a bit better.

What the Sea Shepherd does do is ensure the Whalers will return next year, and very year they taunt them. Watson has TV shows and publicity coming out of every orifice. You do realise money is a motivator?

View PostYamato, on 28 February 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

It's really stretching the value of your opinion and missing the point to state that damaging Japan's economy is going to damage Australia's by extension, so therefore Sea Shepherd is somehow ineffective.   Japan is wasting its own money by insisting on their poaching operation.   When it stops, the bleeding stops.  In order to understand this correctly, you must understand who the clientele of Sea Shepherd is.  It's not the Australian economy and it's not the Japanese government.  It's whales, dolphins, sharks, tuna, seals, turtles, reefs and beaches around the world. Making Japanese whaling ships chase after activists with water guns instead of whaling is the point.   That's what saves the lives of SSCS's clientele.

You know all those companies I listed above, well there is many more that I did not mention. If you thank that is not going to have a major impact on the economy, then you are plain wrong. The Japanese will build another bigger boat. The Whales Dolphins and the like will have no protection at all of all the Government is worried about it the economy. Polotics let them down now, heck, half out pollies do not even seem to understand what an Internationally recognised claim is.

View PostYamato, on 28 February 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

As for the comment about Paul Watson being a "criminal", that's a very selective view of what laws you care about from what laws you don't.  Police who enthusiastically enforce the law aren't breaking the law when they're enforcing it, even though their actions would clearly be violating the law it they weren't enforcing it. The logic is the same for Paul Watson.   Call him whatever you want, it doesn't matter to him and it doesn't matter to any of his supporters.   Sea Shepherd has put a planet-wide spotlight on this issue unprecedented in history; putting millions of supporters from across the globe into his wheelhouse and shining a light on an issue that the world would have otherwise remained ignorant of and derelict to. Watson isn't a criminal, he's a legend.  He's the greatest conservationist on the planet, one of the greatest who ever lived.

No the logic is not the same , not one bit. Police who automatically enforce the law are paid and trained to do so, and do not make a packet from TV shows following them around. That is legal, Watson is not. I cannot call him what I want this is a family forum.

He is a criminal, many legitimate changes have been laid, and he carries weapons. To call him a legend, let alone a conservationist is a gross inaccuracy. If you want to now what a real conversationist is, look up David Fleay. Watson is a media whore who aggravates nations for a spotlight on TV. All that popularity tells me is how effective the media is.


View PostYamato, on 28 February 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

As for the other nonsensical charges that have been made against Watson from 2002, you should really do some homework about this case so you know something about it.   Sharkwater is a legitimate conservationist campaign and award winning film that has uncovered illegal shark poaching operations where Watson was authorized by Ecuador to arrest shark finners entering their waters and he just so happened to have a run-in with Costa Rican shark finning thugs.   Let the melee ensue, because in order to create any kind of worthwhile change in civil society, you have to confront the powers that be, and you have to suffer for it.   This is no different than the suffragettes who had to suffer physically in jail cells to get the rights they deserved.   All social change requires a battle, not the abject laziness and selective ignorance you'd prefer.

http://www.sharkwater.com/awards.htm

The above list not enough? It does seem to be a great deal more "homework" than you have presented to date. I seem to understand the entire situation from the actual law, down to Watsons real agendas better than you do from what I see.


We're just a conceited naked ape, but in our minds we're some "divine legend" and we see ourselves as some sort of god, seeing we can decide what will live and what will die, what will be saved and what will be destroyed, but honestly we're just a bunch of primates out of control.
  • "Sharkwater" documentary
Yes I know the show, there you go, a quote, Watson often mentions God, no doubt he see's himself as one. And the Sea Shepherd is indeed a bunch of Primates out of control. What do they say about takes one to know one?

If we look back at what actual factual information has been posted, you have no right to call me ignorant, it is quite obvious I know a great deal more about this than you do. All you seem to know is what Watson tells you in his Whale Whores show.

Edited by psyche101, 01 March 2013 - 07:47 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#18    psyche101

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 07:51 AM

View PostYamato, on 01 March 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:

I think the real reason why nobody cries crocodile tears about poachers in Africa is because the poachers in Africa are very poor and they're also very black.   So the stark contrast between them being murdered for their crimes with nobody even getting seriously injured by Sea Shepherd's actions is just too much to stomach for the whale meaters.   These illegal Japanese poachers are propped up by theoretically infinite taxpayer subsidies, enjoying a massive operation with their big shiny fleets of ships and hundred-million dollar credit lines, so naturally in contrast to the black guy with the rusty pickup truck, they must be "legitimate".  But the color of right isn't made by might or money.   It's made by passion and courage, and never giving up no matter what.

The main difference being that they are on a land, in Africa, where laws apply, and they break those very laws. Police and other authorities hunt down poachers, not groups of vigilantes. Laws came in when the Elephant population hit an all time scary low of 600,000.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#19    psyche101

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 07:58 AM

View PostYamato, on 01 March 2013 - 05:23 AM, said:

Longer than that, yes,   So let's differentiate between the time before the Global Moratorium and the time after, otherwise that's another sign that you don't care about the rule of law.

In neither period did the Sea Shepherd ever stop whaling.

View PostYamato, on 01 March 2013 - 05:23 AM, said:

It's a voluntary guideline, and Paul Watson volunteers as guided.  That's no supposition of illegality.  The law confers with Paul Watson on every level.

Can you clear that up a little, It is a voluntary guideline, so it's the law? that does not make any sense.

The law does not confer with Watson, that is why there are warrants for his arrest, and why the IWC condemns him as a terrorist.

View PostYamato, on 01 March 2013 - 05:23 AM, said:

Those provisions you cherry-picked out of the document confer with what Paul Watson does more than the reverse.   You lay these eggs and don't even give examples of your accusations.   The Charter authorizes in plain English what Watson does.  You need to read what you link to.  I've already read it, and it's crystal clear.   Whether and precisely how it's binding hasn't been challenged; but that lack of precedence gives you no right to throw it away as meaningless or non-existent, and that doesn't automatically defer the benefit of the doubt to your bias.

Cheery picked? you do not feel these conditions apply? I thought the entire document was supposed to be followed? It's not like I am looking for things to pull out, if even one part of a contract is not met, it is not signed. I have read it, I quoted from it, and because I found two instances that the Sea Shepherd contravenes  you call that cherry picking! Hard to please aren't you! Do your feel such documents are somewhat fluid or something? As far as I know, yu breach one condition, and your out, just like the Sea Shepherds official observational status. The bloody International Whaling Commission does not trust the Sea Shepard! Don't you think the International Whaling Commission has something of a clue about the subject?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#20    Yamato

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 01:06 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 01 March 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:

In neither period did the Sea Shepherd ever stop whaling.



Can you clear that up a little, It is a voluntary guideline, so it's the law? that does not make any sense.

The law does not confer with Watson, that is why there are warrants for his arrest, and why the IWC condemns him as a terrorist.



Cheery picked? you do not feel these conditions apply? I thought the entire document was supposed to be followed? It's not like I am looking for things to pull out, if even one part of a contract is not met, it is not signed. I have read it, I quoted from it, and because I found two instances that the Sea Shepherd contravenes  you call that cherry picking! Hard to please aren't you! Do your feel such documents are somewhat fluid or something? As far as I know, yu breach one condition, and your out, just like the Sea Shepherds official observational status. The bloody International Whaling Commission does not trust the Sea Shepard! Don't you think the International Whaling Commission has something of a clue about the subject?
Cherry picked.  Spelling is important.   Where are you from btw?   Of course they stopped whaling.  For many days and weeks of the whaling season.  They haven't been able to stop the Japanese 100% on any year but that's the goal.   Zero tolerance and zero kills.    It's pretty obtuse not to be able to understand that when the Japanese fleet is running, they're not whaling.  

You didn't find one thing that Sea Shepherd contravenes, you found two cherries out of that whole document that further justify Sea Shepherd's actions.

Why is Japanese people putting whale meat into their mouths so important to you?   Why do you want to run another species of Great Whale into the ground for that?   You have no compassion and apparently you care a great deal about this issue.   A private organization that hasn't seriously injured anyone in its entire history and you want to run your mouth about it in the face of all of these governments and all of this death and all of the BS flying around between countries, to support a government subsidized illegal whaling operation.

Yeah trust the whaling bureaucracy that lets the Japanese get away with whaling on a technicality.  That's pretty smart.  Why didn't I think of that.  You think I'm going to get my clues from them?   That's your clues, not mine.

I condemn the Japanese whalers as terrorists.   Do you care?  I don't care what people call Paul Watson.  Get that clue already.   But I'm not the government, so I can't arrest them.   Might makes right, in your world.  You get your meaning and vocabulary from the establishment.  I get mine from one of the only organizations smart enough to understand that the oceans are dying in our time, so they actually take a stand and do something about it.  So the poor Japanese people that you care so terribly much about can't put heavy metal laden whale meat into their mouths.  Oh the horror of it all.

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"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#21    Yamato

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 01:10 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 01 March 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

The main difference being that they are on a land, in Africa, where laws apply, and they break those very laws. Police and other authorities hunt down poachers, not groups of vigilantes. Laws came in when the Elephant population hit an all time scary low of 600,000.
Now you're denying the law exists.  How ridiculous.  Police and other authorities hunt down poachers, and that's what Sea Shepherd is doing in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary.  

I'll take the charity organization that maintains the highest possible rating on Charity Navigator to get the most amount of donations to where the action is.   I'll take the organization that balances its budget, that pays its bills every year and grows on the merit of its actions rather than shrinks into subsidized oblivion of mounting losses and bankrutpcy, an organization that takes a bite out of the rear-end of the Japanese orders of magnitude greater than their annual budget.   Whether we measure success in lives or money, Sea Shepherd succeeds where others fail.   I hope other organizations will begin to emulate Sea Shepherd's aggressive philosophy because there's always a struggle out there that needs a warrior to take up its cause.  Derelict governments who can't enforce the laws they pass much less obey the ones they don't are no excuse.  When government fails, civil society must pick up the slack.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
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#22    Yamato

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 01:22 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 01 March 2013 - 07:37 AM, said:

You do realise that even just membership to the IWC, let alone signing of the moratorium is completely voluntary don't you? Japan does not even have to be involved at all. What does that tell you?



The Sanctuary is imposed by the IWC, again, it is not an Internationally recognised claim. Many countries other than Japan do not recognise this claim. You have to work within the boundaries of the law, you can't just make them up and enforce them. No law has been broken officially.



LOL, Japan go broke? Surely you jest! Ever heard of Kodak, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Pioneer, Citizen Casio, Dihatsu, Fuji.... etc etc etc. If Australia sufficiently annoy Japan and Japan closes down it's factories, hundreds of thousands of Aussies will be out of work overnight. Australia will pay, not Japan. So will many countries.

The only process Watson keeps alive is whaling. As long as that pirate terrorises waters, the whalers will return.



So you agree the Japanese do not say the Sea Shepherd is effective, they say they are damaging?



I am not sucking up, I want the Japanese gone, that is why I want the Sea Shepherd grounded.

Baseless huh? Here you go.




1977: Founding member of Greenpeace, Paul Watson, expelled from the organisation after a campaign against sealing during which he threw the sealers’ clubs and skins into the sea.

1977: Watson establishes Sea Shepherd organisation. States that Sea Shepherd is not a protest organization. “We are [a] self-appointed policing organization given credibility by the terms of the United Nations Earth Charter of 1982.”

1978: Watson admits to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC) programme As It Happens that his work is aimed at raising funds for his organisation, Sea Shepherd. Watson: “You see, the seal is very easy to exploit as an image. We have posters, we have buttons; we have shirts … all of which portray the head of the baby seal with tears coming out of its eyes. Baby seals are always crying because the salt tears keep their eyes from freezing. But they have this image of ... they are baby animals; they are beautiful. And because of that, coupled with the horror of the sealer hitting them over the head with a club, it is an image which just goes right to the heart of animal lovers all over North America.”


1979: A Sea Shepherd vessel rams the whaling vessel “Sierra”, causing considerable damage. “Sierra” survives attack.

1980: The IWC at its meeting in Brighton, United Kingdom, assigns high-level protection to two Canadian Government delegates after Watson threatened to kill them for voting against a moratorium on sperm whales. Delegates given Royal Canadian Mounted Police protection until their return home to Canada.

1980: The “Sierra” is sunk in Lisbon harbour. Sea Shepherd claims responsibility. Investigation shows limpet mines used to blow up the vessel.

1981: Sea Shepherd claims responsibility for the sinking of the two whaling vessels, Ibsa I and Ibsa II, in the Spanish harbour of Viga.

1983: Paul Watson and “Sea Shepherd” vessel engineer Paul Pezwick, tried and convicted in a Quebec, Canada, court for “interfering in the annual seal hunt in the Gulf of St. Lawrence”. Trial followed arrest in March 1983 when “Sea Shepherd” vessel boarded by Canadian police. “Sea Shepherd” fortified including electric barbed wire around the deck’s edges. Seventeen crew arrested. Watson and three others flee across ice to Cape Breton, Nova Scotia, but caught and arrested. Watson charged additionally with piloting a ship in a dangerous manner, intimidation of the sealers and being unlawfully within a half mile of the seal hunt – a violation of the Seal Protection Regulations. Watson sentenced to 15 months imprisonment.

1983: In retaliation for Watson’s arrest by Canadian police, animal rights extremists slash car tires and spray paint slogans on walls of buildings in the inner city of Quebec. “Fisheries Murder Seals” and “Set Paul Watson Free” slogans spray painted on the Department of Fisheries and Oceans offices in Keele Street. Animal Liberation Front delivers letter to the Quebec Star newspaper admitting causing several thousand dollars worth of damage to the Department’s Keele Street offices.1986: Sea Shepherd attempts to stop Faroe Islands pilot whale harvest. Using rifles, Sea Shepherd activists shoot at Faroe Islands police in an attempt to sink their rubber dinghies. The vessel “Sea Shepherd” was ordered to leave Faroese territorial waters. The police report of 7 October 1986 states: “One of the rubber dinghies was attacked directly by a “Speed Line” line rifle. The attack … endangered the lives of the police crew members ... and signal flares containing phosphorous was thrown at the police. At a later stage the Sea Shepherd used “toads” (rotating iron spikes, pointed and sharp at both ends) against the rubber dinghies … petrol was poured over the side of the ship and signal flares were thrown from the “Sea Shepherd” in an attempt to set the petrol on fire.”

1986: Sea Shepherd claims responsibility for the sinking of two whaling vessels in Reykjavik, Iceland, and for malicious damage to a whaling station. (This act of violence was carried out after Iceland stopped whaling in line with the IWC moratorium on commercial whaling.) Attack carried out by Sea Shepherd members Rodney A. Coronado and David Howitt. (Coronado linked to Animal Liberation Front and arrested eight years later by United States FBI for his part in an ALF attack on Michigan State University research laboratory. Charges included use of an explosive device, theft and arson.)

1988: Paul Watson returns in Iceland demanding to be held responsible for the sinking of the whaling vessels in Reykjavik in 1986. (He is arrested and held for questioning and told he could face several years’ imprisonment. In a press release, the Icelandic Ministry of Justice stated: “At questioning, Paul Watson has admitted that he has given some remarks that connect him with the sabotage, but in spite of this he now claims that he neither took part in the planning nor the execution of the sabotage.”) There was no evidence incriminating Watson. He was ordered to leave the country and declared persona non grata in Iceland.

1991: A US crew member on a Mexican fishing vessel, reports that Sea Shepherd, some of whose crew were armed with rifles, rammed his vessel causing considerable damage.

1991: Scott Trimmingham, president of Sea Shepherd quits in protest. “We had rules about not hurting anyone, about not using weapons. I left because those rules and that philosophy seems to be changing.” Outside magazine (Sept. 1991). Paul Watson admits there are arms on board “Sea Shepherd”. “We confront dangerous people. As the captain, it is my responsibility to protect the lives of my crew ... Therefore, I have prepared myself for the possibility of defending my crew in a situation that could go never occur, but if it does I will use firearms to first intimidate and then to defend,” Watson tells the Los Angeles Free Weekly (April 24, 1992).

1992: Sea Shepherd makes unsuccessful attempts at ramming three Costa Rican fishing vessels. In a written complaint to the local authorities the fishermen report that the Sea Shepherd crew shot at them with bullets containing a red substance, hitting two of them and causing them great pain.

1992: Sea Shepherd makes unsuccessful attempt at scuttling the whaling and fishing vessel “Nybræna” at her moorings in the Lofoten Islands, northern Norway. Attack committed by Paul Watson, girlfriend Lisa DiStefano and one other Sea Shepherd member. Watson later states: “The scuttling of the Nybræna was not a terrorist or criminal act. We were responsible for removing an instrument of death and destruction without causing death or injury.” Charges laid against Watson, who fails to turn up in court. Watson convicted in absentia and sentenced to 120 days in prison.

1992: Sea Shepherd vessel “Whales Forever” collides with Norwegian Coast Guard vessel “Andenes” on July 4. Charges against Paul Watson include negligent navigation, refusal to leaveNorwegian waters on orders of the Coast Guard and transmitting false distress signals. (Tape supplied)

1993: Paul Watson orders the crew on board the Sea Shepherd vessel “Edward Abbey” (formerly US Navy) to open cannon fire at a Japanese fishing vessel. Sea Shepherd crew do not carry out the order, but instead fire a shot across the bow of the Japanese vessel. The Japanese vessel does not stop. (Recorded by Yorkshire Television Documentary “Defenders of the Wild – Ocean Rider”.)

1993: Paul Watson claims in an open letter to the people of Norway that Sea Shepherd has sunk eight ships and rammed and damaged a further six vessels. In the same letter, he states: “The Sea Shepherd Conservation Society is a law abiding organization. We rigidly adhere to and respect the laws of nature or lex natura. We hold the position that the laws of ecology take precedence over the laws designed by nation states to protect corporate interests … the smell of guilt is already a stench in the nostrils of God.”

1993: Federal Grand Jury in Michigan State hands down five-count indictment against Coronado for illegal use of explosives, extortion, threats to interfere with interstate commerce and interstate transportation, to commit arson, theft and destruction of government property and for receiving stolen property. Indictments stem from February 1992 fire-bombing of Michigan State University in East Lancing. Coronado involved in sinking two whaling vessels in Iceland in 1986.

1994: Sea Shepherd claims responsibility for the unsuccessful attempt at scuttling the combined minke whaling and fishing vessel “Senet” at her moorings in Gressvik. The vessel was salvaged, but the water had caused considerable damage. Paul Watson tells Norwegian newspaper Dagbladet on January 26 that former US navy “Seal” commandos took part in attack on the Senet. “Certainly these men are trained to kill, but they are also well disciplined and respect my orders,” he told the newspaper.

1994: Sea Shepherd loses observer status at the International Whaling Commission. IWC Secretary, Ray Gambell, declares that the IWC and all its member states ardently condemn Sea Shepherd’s acts of terrorism.

1994: US National Fisheries Institute asks for investigation into Sea Shepherd. “The recent alleged actions against Norwegian fishing vessels constitute a clear case of piracy,” it says in a letter to former US IWC Commissioner James Baker. “Acts of violence against fishermen of any nation cannot be tolerated. Their safety and livelihood could be threatened unless US officials vigorously condemn violence on the high seas.”

1997: Paul Watson arrested at Schiphol Airport in Amsterdam, Netherlands, for the 1992 attempted scuttling of the Norwegian combined whaling and fishing vessel “Nybræna”. Arrested by Dutch police after Interpol issues warrant. Serves 80 days in prison in the Netherlands, the equivalent of the necessary two-thirds of the 120-day prison sentence handed down by Norway.

2000: Watson campaigns against the Makah people of Northwest United States. He uses intimidation to prevent the Makah from carrying out their IWC approved catch of the gray whale.

2002: Watson tells Animal Rights 2002 Conference in Washington DC that if a person dies from one of his actions, he would consider it “collateral damage”. He believes it is not possible to “commit violence against non-sentient objects. Property damage is not violence.”




Now as for baseless, did you notice that the International Whaling Commission removed their observer status, and call them terrorists? You would the the IWC would have Cetaceans best interests at heart, wouldn't you?

Or how about the way he uses Baby Harp seals to tug at heartstrings? Would you call that noble?




Quite frankly, I seem to have a much better understanding than you do. You do not seem to understand that joining the IWC is a voluntary action, Japan do not have to attend. As such, they are bound to none of these fictional laws you keep insisting exist.



Again, I seem to have a better grasp on International Law than you do. Any treaty has to be signed by all parties considering international law, or it is not a recognised claim. Much like buying land on the moon.


I have quoted more rules and regulations than you have, please show me what regulation allows piracy and terrorism in International Waters.



What a misguided statement. Gets the job one? You do realise that Watson put this merry band of pirates together like 35 or more years ago? In that time, the only things that ever stopped whaling was negotiations. Japan actually agreed to stop altogether. Do you know what set Whaling going again? Bully tactics. The US decided they would impose restrictions on Japans fishing territories, so Japans said if you are going to go back on your word, so will we. And the Sea Shepherd keeps making the same mistake the US did all the at time ago, every year.
It is circular, as long as the Sea Shepard stays in operation, whaling will continue.



As for still baseless, have a look up at the list of charges. And the International Whaling Commissions description.

As opposed to Australian Politicians, I would strongly suggest you seek out a qualified Marine Biologist and ask them. In fact I used to hold the same opinion as you, and like you, I too mouthed of with the garbage Watson had told me, and it turned out, it was all wrong. Thankfully, the learned people understood that Watson twists public opinion, and they were kind enough to allow me to rant and rave whilst they quietly and patiently answered each and every claim and objection, as I have tried to do here with you. I do not claim to have the good manners those people did, but I hope I have learned something from them at least.

Well, yes, the sources are unreliable. Good God man, have you not seen our PM? What a joke! The previous Government was head and shoulders over this bunch of numpties. Burke is an idiot, Brown has always put the cart before the horse. As you have so much trust in them, perhaps you could ask them about our sovereign waters, and ask them which part has been breached? Then you could let us all know  While you are there, please ask them why our Cetacean research and conservation is a dead set joke. Save the Whales? We have Dolphins in captivity all over the place. New Zealand outlawed that ages ago, our trans-oceanic cousins are way ahead of us in regards to conservation. And what about the Shark Nets? Acoustic devices have proven themselves superior, but we keep killing whales, turtles and everything else that swims into it year round. Watson does not say anything about the areas where Australia can improve, because they allow him to dock. I have stood right next to the Steve Irwin, gazing in wonder, but that was before I met the Marine Biologists I mentioned. Graft and corruption but hey, we do not stand for that do we.



It's the best bet so far. I jus hope it does not backfire, but thanks to the efforts of Greenpeace proving that whale meat makes it to the commercial market, we might just yet embarrass them into behaving a bit better.

What the Sea Shepherd does do is ensure the Whalers will return next year, and very year they taunt them. Watson has TV shows and publicity coming out of every orifice. You do realise money is a motivator?



You know all those companies I listed above, well there is many more that I did not mention. If you thank that is not going to have a major impact on the economy, then you are plain wrong. The Japanese will build another bigger boat. The Whales Dolphins and the like will have no protection at all of all the Government is worried about it the economy. Polotics let them down now, heck, half out pollies do not even seem to understand what an Internationally recognised claim is.



No the logic is not the same , not one bit. Police who automatically enforce the law are paid and trained to do so, and do not make a packet from TV shows following them around. That is legal, Watson is not. I cannot call him what I want this is a family forum.

He is a criminal, many legitimate changes have been laid, and he carries weapons. To call him a legend, let alone a conservationist is a gross inaccuracy. If you want to now what a real conversationist is, look up David Fleay. Watson is a media whore who aggravates nations for a spotlight on TV. All that popularity tells me is how effective the media is.




The above list not enough? It does seem to be a great deal more "homework" than you have presented to date. I seem to understand the entire situation from the actual law, down to Watsons real agendas better than you do from what I see.


We're just a conceited naked ape, but in our minds we're some "divine legend" and we see ourselves as some sort of god, seeing we can decide what will live and what will die, what will be saved and what will be destroyed, but honestly we're just a bunch of primates out of control.
  • "Sharkwater" documentary
Yes I know the show, there you go, a quote, Watson often mentions God, no doubt he see's himself as one. And the Sea Shepherd is indeed a bunch of Primates out of control. What do they say about takes one to know one?

If we look back at what actual factual information has been posted, you have no right to call me ignorant, it is quite obvious I know a great deal more about this than you do. All you seem to know is what Watson tells you in his Whale Whores show.
Provide a link to where you copy pasted this information from please.  This is a copyright violation as its written above.

Japan already volunteered itself away from every legal construct there is with its illegal whale poaching operation.  It doesn't matter if its a member of the whaling commission or not.    The entirety of your problem here is a matter of policy and how the law is enforced.  I think Sea Shepherd's history is endearing.   You highlight their record albeit with extremely biased language.  

Apparently the only way you will ever be capable of respecting something is when the government does it.  That's a horrible life to live when you're an individual and I'll know that you will never challenge the status quo and never impose your will for the greater good of the world, to undo pain and suffering, to right the many wrongs out there.  Lying down and flopping over for government is a fast way to lose legitimacy because the main purpose of government is to kill people and animals.   I'll stick with the organization that never killed anyone, thanks.

Watson manipulates the media masterfully.   He understands how to handle those clowns, and the growth rate of his organization has gone exponential while the Japanese poaching fleet is only growing more and more desperate with greater losses to account for every year.   You can side with the losers if you like.  I'm happy Sea Shepherd is winning this war and I'm extremely pleased to know that Japan's illegal operations are coming to an end.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#23    Yamato

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 01:28 PM

Change your life forever in 52 minutes, psyche101:



"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#24    ali smack

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:11 PM

I think whaling is wrong because it's cruel. I hope it does stop someday


#25    Yamato

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:28 PM

Without getting into any of the obvious differences between whales and chickens and looking strictly at the logistics problem of feeding ourselves, we cannot produce whale meat on a farm.  And even if we could, these creatures take decades to mature into adults.   Who's going to feed their food for decades before eating it?   Conversely, I think about how many Americans eat meat and then I realize how many animals must be killed every day to keep up with our appetites.   300 million people and assuming 20% of us eat chicken for dinner, that's 60 million people eating chicken every day.  Now assuming we only eat it once, and assuming we eat a quarter of a chicken, that's approximately 15 million chickens killed every day to feed the US population.   Obviously we can maintain gigantic human populations on the planet by utilizing extremely efficient massive-scale slaughter factories and distribution systems.  

While human beings number in the billions worldwide, whale species, at best, only number in the hundreds of thousands.   Every whale is an individual.   Looking at their ecosystem, their environment is incalculably vast compared to ours.  We live on land, a two dimensional ecosystem that only takes up 30% of the planet's surface.  The whales live in a three dimensional ecosystem making up the other 70%.   Granted all of these facts, and we're still this selfish?   For what?   We're still going to allow Japan or anyone else to drive the last species with any reasonable number of individuals left alive into endangerment or extinction, all the while we're doing nothing to stop them, we're just going to spend all our time lambasting those who do just because we disagree with their tactics?   This greed blows my mind.  I wish I had a blowhole.  Maybe my head wouldn't hurt so much just thinking about how insensitive people can be over the political correctness towards an obsolete and barbaric practice that serves no purpose in the 21st century.  

Pardon me, but if someone doesn't like how someone else is doing something, and they have such great ideas that nobody else does, they should really put their money where their mouths are instead of doing nothing else but whining about the accomplishments of others.  And if they don't have any better ideas than what others are already doing then they probably shouldn't protest so much.  If people really cared about the environment, they wouldn't watch Al Gore's filmstrips and then lambast people for driving Hummers.  They'd refuse to reproduce instead.  If sexual pleasure is too impossible to avoid, condoms are Green and sodomy is environmentally friendly.  What sacrifice, I ask too much, right?   Everyone's a playboy with Superman's libido on the internet after all.  They'd take up one of the many critical environmental causes out there with decisive enough action to be labeled an "eco-terrorist" in some self-centered government official's mind.  Someone who takes action instead of sit around and whine about his trite differences with other people who do.

In closing, I'll let Migaloo voice his concerns:


Edited by Yamato, 01 March 2013 - 04:44 PM.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#26    psyche101

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 07:41 AM

View PostYamato, on 01 March 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Cherry picked.  Spelling is important.  

I do not feel you have proven this. You have protested it, but not proven this is the case at all. I can say the same about Watson's very liberal interpretation of it.

View PostYamato, on 01 March 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Where are you from btw?  

I am an Aussie, born and bred. It says so on my profile. From SE QLD.

View PostYamato, on 01 March 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Of course they stopped whaling.  For many days and weeks of the whaling season.  They haven't been able to stop the Japanese 100% on any year but that's the goal.   Zero tolerance and zero kills. It's pretty obtuse not to be able to understand that when the Japanese fleet is running, they're not whaling.  


Is that right is it?


Quote

The Japanese quota plummeted. From 900,000 tonnes in 1985, it halved in 1986, then fell to 104,000 tonnes the following year. In 1988, the quota was zero; an estimated 130 Japanese fishing boats had nothing to catch.


So you are wrong. It has been stopped, 100%. Japan withdrew it's objections to the bans, and we were set for a whale free future, so what happened?



Shigeko Misaki, who worked with Japanese IWC delegations first as an interpreter and later as an advisor, recalls great anger within the Japanese government and fishing industry at the time.
"(The US) said 'we didn't promise - we just have to give more fish to our fishermen'," she says.
"Anger is the only word that can describe it - why did America have to cheat us like that?"
Within months, Japan had announced it would begin hunting whales for scientific research, a programme that continues to this day.

Historically, the US took many more whales than Japan. That does not see to bother anyone for some reason. They stopped, Japan stopped, then they said Japan, a small country surrounded by water who traditionally relies heavily on seafood, to restrict japanese catches.

Eventually, in June 1986, the Supreme Court ruled in favour of the administration. The deal, apparently, was sealed; in return for keeping its fishing nets full, Japan would hang up its harpoons for good.

Have a look through that article. No significant action with regards to whaling are attributed to the Sea Shepherd.

LINK - Did Greens Help Kill the Whales?

View PostYamato, on 01 March 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

You didn't find one thing that Sea Shepherd contravenes, you found two cherries out of that whole document that further justify Sea Shepherd's actions.

I feel those two conditions are being contravened, no matter if Watson tells you otherwise.

View PostYamato, on 01 March 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Why is Japanese people putting whale meat into their mouths so important to you?   Why do you want to run another species of Great Whale into the ground for that?   You have no compassion and apparently you care a great deal about this issue.   A private organization that hasn't seriously injured anyone in its entire history and you want to run your mouth about it in the face of all of these governments and all of this death and all of the BS flying around between countries, to support a government subsidized illegal whaling operation.

I do not feel we have the right to tell Japanese people what to do. We can negotiate with them about the planet, prove they are doing damage, and just like in 1986, negotiate a peaceful solution. Are you going to tell Aussies to stop eating Kangaroo and Emu, our national symbols? I have much more compassion than you do, you are mistaking passion for compassion. Watson has fired up your passions, that is not compassionate. You do not care what is best for the environment, you only care that the Japanese get their behinds kicked. That seems to be the only thing you are really worried about.

You keep calling it an illegal operation, but have been unable to prove that it is. No territory is breached, no INternational Agreement has been signed ny all parties to make it legal have been breached. To be frank, your full of it. What about Norway and Iceland? They observe no rules and take whales free for all, no quotas, no boundaries nothing. Direct violation of all that you seem to hols sacred. But Watson does no feature them in his show, so hardly anyone except for real conservationists know they are out there.

View PostYamato, on 01 March 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Yeah trust the whaling bureaucracy that lets the Japanese get away with whaling on a technicality.  That's pretty smart.  Why didn't I think of that.  You think I'm going to get my clues from them?   That's your clues, not mine.

What do you think the role of the IWC is? And who do you think it is?

View PostYamato, on 01 March 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

I condemn the Japanese whalers as terrorists.   Do you care?  I don't care what people call Paul Watson.  Get that clue already.   But I'm not the government, so I can't arrest them.   Might makes right, in your world.  You get your meaning and vocabulary from the establishment.  I get mine from one of the only organizations smart enough to understand that the oceans are dying in our time, so they actually take a stand and do something about it.  So the poor Japanese people that you care so terribly much about can't put heavy metal laden whale meat into their mouths.  Oh the horror of it all.

You do not even seem to undertand what terrorism is. I know that you do not care what people call Watson, your head is stuck in that same bucket mine was in a few years ago. I know your argument, I used to tout it, and because I did what yu are doing a few years ago, and was corrected by real environmentalists  I know you are just spewing the passion that Watson gave you. You arfe not even making any sense. I have proven beyond doubt that no law is broken, not territory is breached, there is no legal grounds that make what the Japanese are doing illegal. The only way to prove such is happening is with things like the Greenpeace restaurant infiltration.
Your organisation, The Sea Shepherd, lets be straight up hey? Has been afloat for 35+ Years and whaling is bigger and badder than ever. All Watson has done is ensure the Japanese fleet grows at each opportunity. Your talk of sending Japan broke is pure nonsense, if you think Watson has more money than Japan, you are kidding yourself. With Watsons idiocy, the Japanese take more than they need no matter what. Whale meat was given out in schools and thrown away in bulk because they had too much.
Whale Meat Turns Up In Japanese School Lunches LINK

And this will continue to happen. As long as the Sea Shepherd terrorises the Japanese Whalers, they will take more than they need to spite Sea Shepherd, and try to make them look like a failure, which after 35 years, only the most obtuse do not understand is. Whilst some in the West submit to Watsons propaganda, the Japanese do not, and they can paint 35 years of terrorism as a victory to their people. Watson will only make matters worse as long as he continues his petty selfish money grubbing ways that continue to accomplish little more than putting him in te limelight. I canot believe you cannot see his game. and play along for him.

Edited by psyche101, 04 March 2013 - 07:42 AM.

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#27    psyche101

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 08:01 AM

View PostYamato, on 01 March 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

Provide a link to where you copy pasted this information from please.  This is a copyright violation as its written above.

That's all you have to say about that long list is it?

Sure, no need to be snarky, a Google of any one line would have got you the link. They are all oer the net, but there is a consolidated item with the charges. I did write the dam post 3 times, and lost it 3 times. I was not going to bother so late on a Firday, but felt I would offer you the courtesy, probably should have just waited considering your reply.

LINK 1

LINK 2

View PostYamato, on 01 March 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

Japan already volunteered itself away from every legal construct there is with its illegal whale poaching operation.  It doesn't matter if its a member of the whaling commission or not. The entirety of your problem here is a matter of policy and how the law is enforced.  I think Sea Shepherd's history is endearing.   You highlight their record albeit with extremely biased language.  


Endearing? Hurting people, intimidation, threats, damaging property, ending livelihoods, that is endearing to you? The entirety of your problem is you cannot see pasts Watsons propaganda  Why on earth do you think an entire nation is going to bow to some violent little upstart that had to create his own organisation because everyone else would not have him?

I highlight the record of success, which has nothing to do with Watson. Japan was out of the game. The US who took more whales than they did messed the deal. Why isn't Watson protesting the US action that reversed the moratorium decision? Why isnlt he insisting they go back on their hands an knees and ask Japan to forgive them, and stop whaling, as agreed? Why? Because then America, not Japan would lose face, Good God Man, you cannot see this???????? You are talking about Bias????

View PostYamato, on 01 March 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

Apparently the only way you will ever be capable of respecting something is when the government does it.  That's a horrible life to live when you're an individual and I'll know that you will never challenge the status quo and never impose your will for the greater good of the world, to undo pain and suffering, to right the many wrongs out there.  Lying down and flopping over for government is a fast way to lose legitimacy because the main purpose of government is to kill people and animals.   I'll stick with the organization that never killed anyone, thanks.

OK, Mr respect. I see you had nothing to say about Australia's Shark population, the Turtles being killed in Shark nets, the captivity of Dolphins and the exploitation of them at tourism sites like Monkey Mia. Lets face it, your full of it. These animals all need protection. Watson outright said he uses a baby harp seal image to target the heartstrings of Americans!!

You do not care about all that pain and suffering, you do not give it a second thought. Has Watson gone and pulled Shark Nets on Aussie Coasts? Let the Dolphins go from Sea World? Get a grip man. As long as you one sided support Watson, and Watson alone, your a victim, not a conservationist. Thing is even you do not know it yet.

View PostYamato, on 01 March 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

Watson manipulates the media masterfully.   He understands how to handle those clowns, and the growth rate of his organization has gone exponential while the Japanese poaching fleet is only growing more and more desperate with greater losses to account for every year.   You can side with the losers if you like.  I'm happy Sea Shepherd is winning this war and I'm extremely pleased to know that Japan's illegal operations are coming to an end.

Yes he does manipulate the media, I have been saying that all along, the one thing you have said that is true. What you do not seem to understand that he is manipulating people like you through it. If you think Watson has the Resources to expand his fleet larger than Japans, you are in Lala land. That is not going to happen in anyone's lifetime  I canot believe you truly feel this is the case, I really do not think anyone who can think would. The clowns he knows how to "handle" are the Television crews and their viewers. He knows public opinion sways political opinion because the votes have to come from someplace.

You do not seem to understand, and honestly, I am not sure how I can make it any clearer to you, ass you see to be deliberately obtuse in this regard. I do not want to whalers whaling, that is why I want Watson of the Seas, so we have a chance to begin the type of negotiation that had Japan agree to stop whaling - altogether. As long as Watson terrorises the Whalers, these negotiations cannot begin, and as long as negotiations do not begin, we cannot move forward. Watson is keeping the stalemate, and making a packet from it. How you can not realise that with all of the information I have given you is nothing short of bewildering.

Edited by psyche101, 04 March 2013 - 08:49 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#28    psyche101

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 08:07 AM

View PostYamato, on 01 March 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

Change your life forever in 52 minutes, psyche101:



You do not need that long to know Watson is very dishonest.




Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#29    psyche101

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 08:11 AM

View Postali smack, on 01 March 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

I think whaling is wrong because it's cruel. I hope it does stop someday

I agree, we do not need it in this day and age, and if tradition is to be continued, I'd like to see an argument that restricts Japan to traditional whaling, that is in rowboats. Like this:

Posted Image


I wonder how many whalers might sign up if this was the case.

If Watson can be removed from the Seas, we might be able to get Japan back to a negotiating table. As long as Watson is on the seas, the Japanese will be too. Someone has to give, and if Watson truly had any integrity, he would publicly challenge Japan. He could get on TV and say JAPAN, you can have all of Sea Shepherd assets if you promise to stop whaling forever on paper internationally signed. He will not do that as as long as he is making a packet from his Whale Whores show.

The International Whaling Commission calls the Sea Shepherd terrorists. They are in charge of it all, and have been trying to stop all countries from whaling. If the people who know more about this than anyone else on the planet - heck we would not even know what species are endangered without them, then who do we trust? Watson with his media crew? I really do not feel this is the correct choice. Violence wont solve this. Watson knows that, he enjoys a good fight and getting his face in the TV. The sort of thug that goes out on a Saturday night for a fight, not a good time. I never understod that mentality.

Edited by psyche101, 04 March 2013 - 08:18 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#30    psyche101

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 08:46 AM

View PostYamato, on 01 March 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

Without getting into any of the obvious differences between whales and chickens and looking strictly at the logistics problem of feeding ourselves, we cannot produce whale meat on a farm.  And even if we could, these creatures take decades to mature into adults.   Who's going to feed their food for decades before eating it?   Conversely, I think about how many Americans eat meat and then I realize how many animals must be killed every day to keep up with our appetites.   300 million people and assuming 20% of us eat chicken for dinner, that's 60 million people eating chicken every day.  Now assuming we only eat it once, and assuming we eat a quarter of a chicken, that's approximately 15 million chickens killed every day to feed the US population.   Obviously we can maintain gigantic human populations on the planet by utilizing extremely efficient massive-scale slaughter factories and distribution systems.  

That is why the fishing grounds that the US refused Japan started whaling again. You cannot just keep taking and expect on reprisals, people have to eat, and you cannot tell Japan they are not allowed to anymore. Look at the size of Japan. Not quite the same resources the US has as far as farming land goes is it.

The 1986 moratorium is the one successful measure across all time. It needs to be looked at properly and attempted genuinely.

View PostYamato, on 01 March 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

While human beings number in the billions worldwide, whale species, at best, only number in the hundreds of thousands.   Every whale is an individual.   Looking at their ecosystem, their environment is incalculably vast compared to ours.  We live on land, a two dimensional ecosystem that only takes up 30% of the planet's surface.  The whales live in a three dimensional ecosystem making up the other 70%.   Granted all of these facts, and we're still this selfish?   For what?   We're still going to allow Japan or anyone else to drive the last species with any reasonable number of individuals left alive into endangerment or extinction, all the while we're doing nothing to stop them, we're just going to spend all our time lambasting those who do just because we disagree with their tactics?   This greed blows my mind.  I wish I had a blowhole.  Maybe my head wouldn't hurt so much just thinking about how insensitive people can be over the political correctness towards an obsolete and barbaric practice that serves no purpose in the 21st century.  

You only have a problem with Japan, but none with Iceland or Norway, who do not so much as recognise the IWC. That's being a hypocrite. Same as not giving a rodents rectum about the other sea life that nobody seems to notice is also endangered. You need to burst a gasket if need be, because you need to think harder. It is not policial correctness at all, the US violated Japans fishing rights, and Japan struck back. Watson has been terrorising them for 35 years and without any sings at all of Japan stopping whaling. In 1987 Japan took NO whales. That was the result of negotiation, The US ruined that negotiation just as Watson is continually ruining any chance at an end to whaling. The greed is Watsons alone. That you cannot see that truly blows my mind. You have more than enough information now to see his is damaging, not helping, yet yo still blow his horn. He is an individual. If 8 Muslims showed up on your doorstep and insisted you top eating pork because it offends them, would you?

View PostYamato, on 01 March 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

Pardon me, but if someone doesn't like how someone else is doing something, and they have such great ideas that nobody else does, they should really put their money where their mouths are instead of doing nothing else but whining about the accomplishments of others.  And if they don't have any better ideas than what others are already doing then they probably shouldn't protest so much.  If people really cared about the environment, they wouldn't watch Al Gore's filmstrips and then lambast people for driving Hummers.  They'd refuse to reproduce instead.  If sexual pleasure is too impossible to avoid, condoms are Green and sodomy is environmentally friendly.  What sacrifice, I ask too much, right?   Everyone's a playboy with Superman's libido on the internet after all.  They'd take up one of the many critical environmental causes out there with decisive enough action to be labeled an "eco-terrorist" in some self-centered government official's mind.  Someone who takes action instead of sit around and whine about his trite differences with other people who do.

I cannot believe how much I have shown you that you seem to have missed. Whaling has been stopped. Watson has been unsuccessful for over 35 years. How much of a picture do you need drawn? The best way forward is to remove that which keeps the situation alive, and in an angry state. That is the Sea Shepherd, who are classed as terrorists by legal people, not bleeding hearts who got too engrossed with the TV show. You have given false laws, made false terror claims, and seem to think if we make fools of ourselves and arrest the Japanese on non-existent laws, that the problem will go away. You need to look a bit deeper than newspapers.

As I suggested earlier, I dare you to talk to a bonafide Marine Biologist. Don't believe me, I am telling you to go out an double check that which I have offers  and seek your own professional advice. You have shown and admitted you are relying on newspaper, Politicians  and the Whale Wars show. Do you really think that gives you a well rounded outlook do you? Put your money where your mouth is. I dare you. I do not know where you are, but I know all countries have managed environmental programs, and that you can go to them and ask questions.
I do not know where you are going with sodomy, but really, I do not think I want to know.

Watson is not an eco-terrorist. He is a terrorist. TV is making the distinction for you, guided by none other than Watson.

View PostYamato, on 01 March 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

In closing, I'll let Migaloo voice his concerns:


Very Paul Watson of you. Nothing to do with the topic, nothing to do with the situation, just a distraction to make people ohh and ahhh , and keep the knee jerk reactions coming. It's not an honest way to get your point across, the honest, and rather boring way is the count endless statistics and take them to a council with the Japanese at the tabel, and force Japan to realise the brevity of the situation.




Change your life in 2 minutes?

Edited by psyche101, 04 March 2013 - 08:52 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who




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