160 replies to this topic

[lost_shaman]

psyche101, on 15 June 2012 - 06:52 AM, said:

Even more confusing, from the same link, McDonald also goes on to say:

I didn't find it confusing. The two men are using different instruments. What I found interesting is what McDonald say's here...

Quote

(As I heard one after another of these men describe all this, I kept trying to imagine how it was possible that Condon could listen, at the October, 1967, plasma conference at the UFO Project, as Col. Chase recounted all this and shrug his shoulders and walk out.)

[TheMcGuffin]

A picture of the Diablo test, July 15, 1957.



And on July 19, 1957, this air-to-air nuclear missile was also tested in Nevada.  I have heard stories that it might have been fired at a UFO, or that something like that happened around this time in 1957, but I can't prove that.

[DONTEATUS]

TheMcGuffin, on 15 June 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

A picture of the Diablo test, July 15, 1957.



And on July 19, 1957, this air-to-air nuclear missile was also tested in Nevada.  I have heard stories that it might have been fired at a UFO, or that something like that happened around this time in 1957, but I can't prove that.

I hope he just is taxing ! Or I would shut the can-o-peas.

[TheMcGuffin]

DONTEATUS, on 16 June 2012 - 02:51 AM, said:

I hope he just is taxing ! Or I would shut the can-o-peas.

During this series of tests, they also crashed an airplane full of plutonium, just for fun, I guess.  If ET really was around, he probably decided this was a very hostile environment.

Well, it was 1957 after all.



Ike once said that he'd "blow the hell" out of the Russians in 30 minutes if they ever gave him any static, so maybe he felt the same way about UFOs.

Happy Days.

Edited by TheMcGuffin, 16 June 2012 - 04:39 AM.

[krazybradman]

Near Salt Flat, Texas. i guess 400 miles is near. Just another coverup if you ask me.

[TheMcGuffin]

There was actually a guy called the Nuclear Cowboy, and the Atomic Energy Commission always showed him working all day in these radioactive areas after they did one of their tests.  I believe he later died of cancer.



Or maybe they called him the Atomic Cowboy, but at any rate he had a mighty unhealthy job.

Edited by TheMcGuffin, 17 June 2012 - 01:16 AM.

[csspwns]

so where did the ufo go? did they lose it?

[TheMcGuffin]

csspwns, on 17 June 2012 - 01:19 AM, said:

so where did the ufo go? did they lose it?

I have no idea.  They generally moved away fast when someone tried to intercept them or shoot at them.  Of course, if they really did fire a nuclear missile at one of these, I would have no way of finding out what happened--or even if it was true.  That type of information is way above my pay grade, and to say that it would be Top Secret is putting it mildly.

They had several UFO reports right around the time of these tests in July 1957, and they were all very unusual kinds of UFOs that sent IFF signals and things like that.  For all I know, this was the same UFO the whole time, but it just as easily could have been three of them on three different days.

There's just no way to know from the records that we have, and maybe they didn't even know at the time.

Edited by TheMcGuffin, 17 June 2012 - 01:30 AM.

[TheMcGuffin]

I once read of a case in 1962 where they tracked the UFO from New England all the way to Alaska, moving very high and very fast.  They were sending jets up after it all over the place, from Canada and the US, but they couldn't catch the thing.  They were sending jets up to 75,000 feet, using their afterburners until they stalled out, but they couldn't get it.

There are so many of these UFO chase reports in the records by now that they seem commonplace, but these UFOs in July 1957 really stand out because they were responding to signals or giving off their own signals.  That's not common.

Where do they come from?  What are they doing here?  Where do they go when they aren't flying around and upsetting the military?  I don't know.  Those are very good questions, though.

I once heard of a case where a UFO was spotted sitting on the ground near a radar station, and the commanding officer starting yelling at the men "It's a saucer!  Get it!  Get it!"  They tracked the thing going straight up to 100,000 feet or more in a few seconds, and it was gone, probably staright up into space for all I know.

Edited by TheMcGuffin, 17 June 2012 - 01:44 AM.

[DONTEATUS]

It does no good to try and hammer these reports over,and over  into peoples minds. Afterall Its only important  If one see`s a UFO go at speeds that are so off the wall and so, on to spark ones own curiosity ! Anything you say will be used against you in a court of law,of Forum. Just saying, its all in the way you look at it ! Next time I see a UFO thats doing a ba-gillion mile per-hour stops flies around me and then zipp`s off like a blink. Im going to say the same thing ! It was a UFO . And I got to See it !

[psyche101]

lost_shaman, on 15 June 2012 - 08:30 AM, said:

I didn't find it confusing. The two men are using different instruments. What I found interesting is what McDonald say's here...

Gidday Mate!

What I find confusing os that McDonald presents both in his report, yet only one answer could possibly be correct if any. He is saying "they picked up a signal on the planes radar, but they did not."



i.e.

The upscope- downscope sweep of his #2 monitor lobe implied that this source, presuming it to be the same one now also being seen on ground radar at Carswell GCI, had flown a circle around the RB-47 at 30-35,000 ft

then


The unknown gave a GCI return that suggested a cross-section comparable to an ordinary aircraft, Chase told me, which is consistent with Hanley's non-detection of the object. The Condon Report gives the impression the navigator did detect it, but this is not correct.

That is very interesting, good pickup, I thought every man and his dog simply refused plasma in this instance?

Cheers.

[TheMcGuffin]

psyche101, on 18 June 2012 - 01:52 AM, said:

Gidday Mate!

What I find confusing os that McDonald presents both in his report, yet only one answer could possibly be correct if any. He is saying "they picked up a signal on the planes radar, but they did not."
.

The purpose of these RB-47H planes was to detect enemy radar, which was usually stationary and on the ground.  They were surprised by the UFO moving around in the sky and giving off radar signals.  Their plane did not:

"Emit a signal and then pick up reflected echoes off of an object. Rather, it detected electromagnetic signals that were actually emitted by an object itself. The purpose of this was to detect and locate enemy radar installations. On this aircraft, the #2 monitor consisted of a direction finder with antenna on the lower rear of the aircraft, and the #1 monitor consisted of a direction finder with antennas on each wingtip of the aircraft. The #3 monitor was not involved in the events of July 17, because its range did not include the frequencies involved.
"

The two crew members at Stations 1 and 2 picked up the UFO signals.  Frank McClure was on the No. 2 Monitor and first picked up the UFO, but did not mention it to the pilot Lewis Chase until he later saw the UFO visually. John J. Provenzano was at the No. 1 station.  Both reported that it followed them from Louisiana to Texas, keeping pace with them, and then they picked up two UFOs, which appeared to be red lights.

That doesn't seem to get mentioned much either, that at one point a second UFO showed up, detected by the plane and ground radar.  When they chased one of these, the UFO simply stopped at they overshot it.  When they again closed within five miles, it blinked out and disappeared from ground radar and the plane's detection equipment.


It started following them again when they returned to base in Oklahoma, and was again seen visually and by the electronic equipment.  
Very weird, especially because it also responded to IFF signals.  It seemed to me mimicking various kinds of signals in fact.

http://ufoevidence.o...ses/case665.htm

I am uncertain about whether the plane's own radar also picked up the UFOs since its range was only 4 miles.

Its ability to stop in midair like that is really mysterious, and rules out a conventional kind of aircraft in 1957, and probably now for all I know.

Edited by TheMcGuffin, 18 June 2012 - 03:27 AM.

[lost_shaman]

TheMcGuffin, on 18 June 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:

Its ability to stop in midair like that is really mysterious, and rules out a conventional kind of aircraft in 1957, and probably now for all I know.

Yeah, but that's exactly what a plasma might do, McDonald lamented the fact that others were not considering this.

[TheMcGuffin]

lost_shaman, on 18 June 2012 - 08:28 AM, said:

Yeah, but that's exactly what a plasma might do, McDonald lamented the fact that others were not considering this.

But do plasmas give off signals like these UFOs in July 1957, including responses to IFF?  That's another strange part of the whole thing, if we are going to buy the idea of some kind of very long-lasting plasma or similar phenomenon--and these would have had to last for an unusually long duration.  They seemed to be mimicking the signals, though, or at least attempting to do so.

I can see why this case puzzled the Air Force and why it was kicked up to the Top Secret level, making it one of the very few Blue Book cases that we know of ever to be so highly classified.  They couldn't identify these as their own aircraft, either.

[Hazzard]

TheMcGuffin, on 18 June 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

But do plasmas give off signals like these UFOs in July 1957, including responses to IFF?  That's another strange part of the whole thing, if we are going to buy the idea of some kind of very long-lasting plasma or similar phenomenon--and these would have had to last for an unusually long duration.  They seemed to be mimicking the signals, though, or at least attempting to do so.

I can see why this case puzzled the Air Force and why it was kicked up to the Top Secret level, making it one of the very few Blue Book cases that we know of ever to be so highly classified.  They couldn't identify these as their own aircraft, either.

I managed to find some of the posts we did about plasma earlier... Here is one of Badeskovs,...  

http://www.unexplain...2


So, it would seem that plasma can indeed...

* Move at extreme velocities.
* Undergo extreme accelerations.
* Be very luminious and have metallic looking "surface".
* Move erratically, something some could interprete as being intelligently controlled motion.
* Can be attracted to metal (like a big airplane) depending on the magnetic characteristics of the plasma.


Terrestrial plasmas certainly dont count for all of the sightings, we dont even know if it counts for any, although I would be very surprised if it didnt.

However, the fact that such phenomena exists, exhibit some of the same behaviors as UFOs and that we really only learned about them during the last 20 years clearly illustrates that....

1) We constantly learn about our atmosphere and the Earth we live one.
2) The last Earthly phenomenon hasnt been discovered yet.
3) We have not, in any UFO case, proven that it is ET by the elimination of all other possibilities.


In general they consist of light balls of many forms and colors, characterized by pulsations, often erratic movements, occasional long duration, and intense emission of energy. Their dimensions range from decimeters up to 30 m.

During that campaign, it was also demonstrated that these lights often produce a strong radar signature with a peculiar behavior. Once a bright light was radar-tracked moving at 8500 m/s (the radar was working at 3 cm).

Several attempts were made to get a reaction. The lights ''responded'' almost always by changing their flashing sequence from a regular flashing mode to a regular double-flashing mode and returning to a regular flashing mode after the laser beam was moved away (Strand, 1985, 2000).



Here we have something that is intensely luminous, provides a strong radar signature, look metallic, can move fast and highly erratically (seeming intelligently) and reacting to outside stimuli.


I dont know about the rest of you, but this sure reminds me of some of the UFOs we keep hearing about.

Edited by Hazzard, 18 June 2012 - 09:47 PM.