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'It's just my opinion'


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#16    Sherapy

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 10:24 PM

View PostAtlantisRises, on 28 August 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

And seeing you is the highlight of being back Shera. Perhaps it's just me being overly pedantic but I think that mutual respect should be implied, I'm well aware that it's often overlooked but it should just be there. I agree that whatever anyone says, no matter how disagreeable should be considered. I am also aware that if I say something that goes strongly against someones personal beliefs that my statement will be given less credibility by them because they disagree. Wether they realise it or not they will treat my statement differently because they do not agree with it. I'm aware of that, I accept that, indeed I'm guilty of it myself, for instance if the majority of a post is centered around biblical literature I'm going to gloss over it.

I just think that the fact that anything you state online, short of a mathematical certainty, is your opinion is implied. I think that a large reason behind a lot of the more volatile issues here is a clash of personalities as much as any difference in opinions. Certainly amongst the older posters who have read their counterparts opinions a thousand times and know more or less their opinions anyway animosities from previous threads will often find their way into new threads.

Awww, you are so sweet, I have missed you a lot. I hope you are here to stay for a while. Wow, it is interesting to hear the feedback that after being away so long you notice an huge inflation in "IMO's."  I see your point too, so it is awesome to have an opportunity to be able to have conversations with you that  won't have to  prefaced with IMO. (((HUGS)))


#17    Michelle

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 12:10 AM

View PostMichelle, on 28 August 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

For a long while there was a very outspoken, obnoxious group that insisted if you didn't exclaim something was "just my opinion" that it was being stated as a fact and constantly harassed people who didn't. :yes:

Speak of the devil....


View PostR4z3rsPar4d0x, on 28 August 2013 - 10:13 PM, said:

Iv said that in posts and totally changed my thinking around after reading other posts, I think people mainly say that because they know someone else might have a different opinion and if they dont include "thats just my opinion' after they'll be attacked by everyone that disagrees.  If they say thats JMO after its kind of like they cover themselves.  Nobody likes to be ridiculed and personally attacked.

It's kind of like what the comedian Henry Cho says about the South..."You can say anything about anyone, in the South, as long as you say "Bless their heart" afterwards." He is funny as hell! :lol:


#18    spacecowboy342

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 12:17 AM

View PostAtlantisRises, on 28 August 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

I haven't been active on this site for quite a long time but the last few weeks I've been reading through, trying to reaclimatize myself to the ins and outs of UM and I've noticed something that is sort of annoying. What I mean is the number of people who will make a statement, generally contrary to either and individual in the thread or even the majority, often quite bluntly and then at the end of their statement add, often in parenthesis, that it is only their opinion.

It almost seems as if that statement is meant to straight away prevent any discussion, disagreement or illfeeling towards their statement. This occurs across all the sections of UM but as I generally read the Spirituality boards I notice it more here. Being that these are a discussion board everyone is, or at least should be, aware that we are stating our opinions, unless of course we have directly quoted someone elses. Thus saying that it is just your opinion is a totally redundant statement. And like most redundant statements it interrupts the flow of your writing and as such weakens the effect of it.

I recognise that poor english skills have a large part to do with this in some cases, nevertheless it does make the writers sounds sort of whiny.

Now I was wondering what other people think, what is your opinion. Do you feel that when someone states that something is their opinion that it in anyway validates their statement. Do you feel that you should respond to their posts any differently when they have stated this.


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Perhaps it means that though they have no hard evidence to back up the statement they have come to this opinion through reasoning which does not preclude discussion, but that's just my opinion


#19    Liquid Gardens

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 12:57 PM

View PostAtlantisRises, on 28 August 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

What I mean is the number of people who will make a statement, generally contrary to either and individual in the thread or even the majority, often quite bluntly and then at the end of their statement add, often in parenthesis, that it is only their opinion.

It almost seems as if that statement is meant to straight away prevent any discussion, disagreement or illfeeling towards their statement. This occurs across all the sections of UM but as I generally read the Spirituality boards I notice it more here. Being that these are a discussion board everyone is, or at least should be, aware that we are stating our opinions, unless of course we have directly quoted someone elses. Thus saying that it is just your opinion is a totally redundant statement. And like most redundant statements it interrupts the flow of your writing and as such weakens the effect of it.

Good point, but I guess I view and use 'IMO' a little differently.  I use it to differentiate between statements that I think I can back up with reasoning or evidence, and statements that are not as well supported that I may have an opinion about.  Agreed, one way to look at it is that everything is ultimately an opinion but I think it becomes a useless word if it encompasses everything, and I don't think things like evolution or that the earth rotates are really correctly referred to as mere 'opinions'.  If all someone can say about their point is that it's just their opinion but they don't really have any good reasoning or evidence they can share to support it, I may well find it interesting but from a debate standpoint there's not much to do but shrug at it.

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#20    redhen

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 02:59 PM

I think qualifying every statement with "that's just my opinion" or imho is redundant. Deductive reasoning is boring, it has necessary conclusions and it doesn't add any new knowledge. Almost all the arguments we use are inductive and do not provide certainty, they only infer to the best explanation. And that's where it gets interesting.

Lastly, opinions are not arguments, they are unsupported claims or assertions.

And that's not like, just my opinion, man.

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#21    spacecowboy342

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 10:30 PM

View Postredhen, on 29 August 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

I think qualifying every statement with "that's just my opinion" or imho is redundant. Deductive reasoning is boring, it has necessary conclusions and it doesn't add any new knowledge. Almost all the arguments we use are inductive and do not provide certainty, they only infer to the best explanation. And that's where it gets interesting.

Lastly, opinions are not arguments, they are unsupported claims or assertions.

And that's not like, just my opinion, man.

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opinions based on logic are absolutely arguments even without evidence


#22    redhen

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 02:23 AM

View Postspacecowboy342, on 29 August 2013 - 10:30 PM, said:

opinions based on logic are absolutely arguments even without evidence

Opinions are not based on logic though. By definition, if you have an informed opinion with some kind of warrant, then what you have is an argument, not just a subjective opinion.


#23    spacecowboy342

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 02:43 AM

View Postredhen, on 30 August 2013 - 02:23 AM, said:

Opinions are not based on logic though. By definition, if you have an informed opinion with some kind of warrant, then what you have is an argument, not just a subjective opinion.
Perhaps you are correct. But make a statement based on opinion,whether based on evidence or not and the first response is usually a demand for proof. Without proof and only reasoning behind your opinion this info must then be related. Saying it is opinion in the first place just saves a step


#24    redhen

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 03:06 AM

View Postspacecowboy342, on 30 August 2013 - 02:43 AM, said:

Perhaps you are correct. But make a statement based on opinion,whether based on evidence or not and the first response is usually a demand for proof.

You can make a claim without people asking for proof. Preferences are one category for example; "Apples taste better than oranges". There's simply nothing to debate there.

Quote

Without proof and only reasoning behind your opinion this info must then be related. Saying it is opinion in the first place just saves a step

But 99.999999...% of all the arguments on these forums use inductive logic, so there is no certitude, only inferences to the best explanation. In other words, it's all opinion. Of course there is a big difference between an informed opinion and an uninformed one.


#25    spacecowboy342

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 03:23 AM

View Postredhen, on 30 August 2013 - 03:06 AM, said:

You can make a claim without people asking for proof. Preferences are one category for example; "Apples taste better than oranges". There's simply nothing to debate there.



But 99.999999...% of all the arguments on these forums use inductive logic, so there is no certitude, only inferences to the best explanation. In other words, it's all opinion. Of course there is a big difference between an informed opinion and an uninformed one.
Perhaps you are correct though my opinions are based on either inductive or deductive reasoning, whatever it takes to get me there. I wont make a post opinion or otherwise if I don't think I can defend it. Sometimes the phrase stating it is my opinion is just a manner of speaking on my part and sometimes it is merely an attempt to not offend those who cherish an alternate opinion especially in regards to religion. I never really mean to offend even though I sometimes use sarcasm to make a point


#26    redhen

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 03:36 AM

View Postspacecowboy342, on 30 August 2013 - 03:23 AM, said:

Sometimes the phrase stating it is my opinion is just a manner of speaking on my part and sometimes it is merely an attempt to not offend those who cherish an alternate opinion especially in regards to religion. I never really mean to offend even though I sometimes use sarcasm to make a point

I am reminded of the Jain teaching on Anekāntavāda.

"Anekāntavāda (Devanagari: अनेकान्तवाद) is one of the most important and fundamental doctrines of Jainism. It refers to the principles of pluralism and multiplicity of viewpoints, the notion that truth and reality are perceived differently from diverse points of view, and that no single point of view is the complete truth.

Jains contrast all attempts to proclaim absolute truth with adhgajanyāyah, which can be illustrated through the parable of the "blind men and an elephant"

cheers.


#27    SpiritWriter

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 03:52 AM

In my opinion I have some facts that people call opinions and seem to get really mad when I state them as facts. But I dont know if I say 'in my opinion' on a regular bases.. probably somewhat ..  

Yeah your right about it weakening a statement.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#28    SpiritWriter

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 03:58 AM

View Postredhen, on 30 August 2013 - 03:36 AM, said:



I am reminded of the Jain teaching on Anekāntavāda.

"Anekāntavāda (Devanagari: अनेकान्तवाद) is one of the most important and fundamental doctrines of Jainism. It refers to the principles of pluralism and multiplicity of viewpoints, the notion that truth and reality are perceived differently from diverse points of view, and that no single point of view is the complete truth.

Jains contrast all attempts to proclaim absolute truth with adhgajanyāyah, which can be illustrated through the parable of the "blind men and an elephant"

cheers.

I totally agree with this.. I often see things with several viewpoints and ponder this subject a lot. I think of polarity and the variety of truths. Some peoples minds cannot see the multiplexity of what is possible and thats why they get stuck with their opininions. There are opinions and there are facts, some facts refute peoples opinions and they seem to desire more facts to understand, but all I can offer is an opinion on whether or not what your pondering is possible since you cant accept my facts.... for example. :-P

Edited by SpiritWriter, 30 August 2013 - 03:59 AM.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#29    moonshadow60

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 03:48 PM

It's a waste of time to argue with someone who will never change their mind and some folks flog a dead horse mercilessly rather than be thought to have the incorrect opinion.  I say it is my opinion because it is; opinions are subjective.  They may or may not be fact, but I don't want to debate or spend a lot of time opening numerous links someone has posted in order to prove my opinion is incorrect.  If you do that, don't be surprised if I don't answer you.


#30    brlesq1

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 07:22 PM

Unless you have the facts to back up your statements, they are opinions. I don't think the words cheapens a position, I think they strengthened it. It's an invitation to debate, an invitation to try and sway the other.

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