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Questioning self "Realization"


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#16    himalyanmystic

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 10:55 AM

View PostBeany, on 26 December 2012 - 02:49 AM, said:

I feel like I'm right back where I started in regard to all of this. I had a kundalini awakening experience some years ago, though I did next to nothing to make it happen; didn't even know what it was till some months after the fact. Now, years later, I feel like like any conceptions, perceptions, understandings, etc., I have around it are vastly incomplete or no where near approaching the reality of it; I'm beginning to realize just how ignorant I still am and how much I have to learn. It's weird, I thought I knew a lot of stuff, now I'm feeling like none of it is really important in the bigger picture. Anyhoo, I think maybe self-realization, at least for me, is a matter of degrees, and it's not something I'll ever be done with, or will be done with me. And maybe it happens when we're not looking, I know there's a lot of stuff I'll never figure out, so I'm going to give up trying and devote that energy to things that make a difference here in the material world. I love being human and all that comes with it, and I'm grateful for every day I have on this planet.
coz i feel i dont know a lot ,i feel knowledge is infinite ,i know very little about the  existence
Getting carried away in debates takes me nowhere so i try to sit silently and try to appreciate all points of view
Never arrive at any hard and fast conclusions ................................

[HIMALAYANMYSTIC

#17    Beany

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 02:54 PM

View Posthimalyanmystic, on 26 December 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

coz i feel i dont know a lot ,i feel knowledge is infinite ,i know very little about the  existence
Getting carried away in debates takes me nowhere so i try to sit silently and try to appreciate all points of view
Never arrive at any hard and fast conclusions ................................

I like that, never arrive at any hard & fast conclusions. Lately it feels to me like when I head in that direction I'm headed in the wrong direction, so I'm trying really hard to just hang out and stay in one place and see if any wisdom or insight reveals itself. It's hard for me to do, because I've always been self-directed, but right now I guess I'm practicing stillness.


#18    Beany

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 02:58 PM

View Postbraveone2u, on 26 December 2012 - 07:21 AM, said:

Hi Beany,

I don't agree with your statement: "I feel like I'm right back where I started in regard to all of this. It's weird, I thought I knew a lot of stuff, now I'm feeling like none of it is really important in the bigger picture." Otherwise, you would not have said this: "I love being human and all that comes with it..."

Peace.

Paul

Thanks, Paul. You could be right, in that all of the experiences & information I've acquired along the way were simply a vehicle to get me here, and now that I'm here they've served their purpose and are no longer so important. This would never have occurred to me without your post. I realize I've always felt these experiences, understandings, etc. were what has value, but maybe not, maybe it's where they take us that counts.


#19    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 09:21 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 26 December 2012 - 08:31 AM, said:

Th e "I  am" is the I inside and the physical body. "I" am an organic body, hosting a self aware sapient consciousness. The I is both.  My consciousness and my body are a part of the universe /god but only a part. God / the universe, is a part of my body /consciousness but only a part.

god exixts within me, and in all the universe, including the bits in close proximty to them. Via god i can extend myself to those bits and they can enter into me. Like oxygen, in a way
God is just god and is the same within me and without me. ie it has energy and maerial form inside me and outside me. I have physically seen it outside me, but seeing inside yourself is harder.

It can heal my body by lending power and energy to it and  it can alter  my metabolic rates so i feel no fear, think more clearly, and many other things.

I am a god in a human body like christ was. The power of god, sometimes called the holy spirit, transcends that human body and its physical limitations and makes me an aspect or an avatar of god. This is true of every human being.


In my opinion our story is us, creating a golden thread in the wider tapestry of life.

Via the cosmic consciousness anyone can acces potential future events. They can create them, alter them, and shape them to their will. There is no one fixed future and there was no one fixed past, until it became the past.

In my experince there is only one god i find no need to capitalise it  it is the universal cosmic consciousness but of course there might be a whole race or family of such evolved consciousnesses. I have no frame of reference to know this, I just know god. We are not equal to god because we are not as old, evolved, experienced or mature as god is. However in potential we are gods equal

There is no such thing as supernaturla powers. I have some of the powers whichcome withthe empowerment of accesing gods powers But we all have those in potentia form. These are natural powers and a natural part of what it means to be fully human.


The body and material things are NOT important, although i would rather be comfortable than uncomfortable. Our mind determines our happiness, our pain levels, our feelings etc and we are our mind. We can chose to be happy, pain free, (with some physical limitations)   We can chose never to be sad depressed lonely suffer grief etc (except where there is a physicla illness of the mind)
Some people never each the level of self realisation required to know those things are unimportant. As long as we are true to oursleves we can be proud and happy.
I do not try, in general, to teach people or preach to them.  I can only give nformation and possibilities .This proces only works when it is self actualised or realised  To me, i could live in hollywwod or on a mountain top. It is irrelavant because only what is inside yourself is important and that does not change unless you choose to change it.

One can't judge others as people, and only judge their actions where they hurt themselves or others. But i would never chose to live in a big city. I love nature as much as I love people, and am happy talking to people for hours, or spending days by myself.
Thank you for the clarification, Mr Walker.

Peace.

Paul

Edited by braveone2u, 26 December 2012 - 09:23 PM.

(Christian) Gnosticism also has the Holy Spirit, Christ(os), Jesus, LOVE...and God.

#20    Mr Walker

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 11:45 PM

View Postbraveone2u, on 26 December 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

Thank you for the clarification, Mr Walker.

Peace.

Paul

I hope it helped you understand my world view. Words are inadequate, often, to convey understandings between individual minds, whose data and processing evolves from individual exeriences, but for the present and the next decade or so until the transmission of thoughts is achieved scientifically, it is often all we have. Understandings are a lot easier where two or more minds share at least some commonality of experience and where; mental pictures, linguistic forms, and their attached symbologies, are thus also held in common.

For example, i can describe the expereince of engaging with an "angel' that materialised as a 2 metre high pillar of intense light, communicated with me, and altered my physical metabolism, but unless you were there to share the experience or have had the same experience in your own past, it does not have the same quality and resonance/meaning/influence/shape within your own mind.


I was once trapped under the sail of a capsized yacht and nearly drowned, 45 years ago. I could explain that experience in detailed words to you, including the material description of the event/experience and my mental thought processes during the experience,  but it would not be your experience and thus would not form a part of your understandng of life, as it does mine.

But now that event exists only in my consciousness (and in tha t of the cosmic consciousness)

If i could share it with you, you would be in exactly the same position as i am, ( ie the event would have the same reality and influence in your own mind) because that is the nature of organic memory and consciousness. It does not discriminate between physically experienced events and "metaphysically" experienced events.

My earliest memories from childhood are memories of things that had no  shared physical reality outside of my mind.  All through my life, along with wonderful memories of mundane physical events, i have memories of events shared from the minds of other consciousnesses, or through extending my consciousness around the world and the universe. There is no physical difference in those stored memories, although i know precisely which are which, because of contextual frameworks and reality checkers.
For me, it is also easier because, since early childhood, as part of a deliberate period of effort, I have had conscious control /awareness of my subconscious and vice versa.

Ie my subconscious is aware of and integrates the conscious part of my mind. Thus i am self aware all the time, even when dreaming, and know how and why my conscious and subconscious are integrating and processing data, experiences and thoughts. My conscious mind is aware of, and can use the subconscious mind, to make understandings of the waking and dreaming world.

This helps me understand the causations of things like fear and anger; see their emotional, intellectual, and symbolic representations and expressions while awake and while dreaming, and simply remove them or manipulate them into other forms, both while asleep and while awake..

Edited by Mr Walker, 26 December 2012 - 11:59 PM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#21    BlackBearWolf

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 12:51 AM

I would like to share a story about how "self awareness" saved my life.
From a young age I always felt everything is an equal of me. A cat is no better than a tree. A tree is no better than a human. We all exsist together, made of the same material, all filled with an undescribable essence. This led to to consistant lucid dreaming and astral projection starting when I was 8 years old. I turned towards hallucinegenic drugs as a teeneager, and it definitly pulled the veil further back revealling much more.  from the age of 10-17 i would have a re-accuring dream about playing tennis, during the match the ball would hit an electrical box opening its cover. The circuit board would be covered with with a cancerous tar . at the age of seventeen i moved to a condo with a tennis court. One day i decided to meditate on the court. I astral travelled inside my own body traveling down my arteries and blood vessels, i stumbled upon the the same black mass i had been dreaming about. I snapped out of my meditation a bit shocked.
Soon there after i had the same dream about the tennis court. I awoke from the dream sitting up and paralyzed. I was experiencing sleep paralysis. but it turned into a siezure. I was fully counscious as i flopped about the bed and to the floor. The next morning i told my mom what happened. I got an MRI and it revealed i had a brain tumor the size of a golf ball in my right pariatal lobe. i had surgery to remove it a month later. I meditated every day imaging my body healing and remained very positive.
That was 12 years ago. I still get an MRI every year, because the doctors are expecting its return.  
Self awareness kept me intune with my body and allowed to reckognize the signs the unviverse layed before me.


#22    Mr Walker

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 12:59 AM

Thank you for sharing that BlackBearWolf. I will let others make of it as they will, but apart from the drugs bit (i guess in my teens alcohol was the only thing available) it is very similar to my own experiences in life, and i can accept and relate to it completely. One of the reasons I have been telling my own story on Um for so long is in the hope it will encourage others to do the same, but also just to open people up to the potentialities in life.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#23    JGirl

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 01:09 AM

i have to be honest and say i didn't understand the OP
to me it was sort of a bunch of random thought fragments. sorry.
as forthe term self realization...
sort of a contradiction really, as the self is ever changing, so can never be realized. (this is going on my opinion that self is ego)
i think it's more important to examine our spiritual nature and not spend so much time posturing with meditation and rituals and herbs and drugs and whatever else.
a journey is not its rituals.

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#24    BlackBearWolf

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 01:21 AM

Thanks Mr Walker for all your contributions to this community of truth seekers. I have been reading your post for the last two years and I also relate with alot with what you speak of. I  know the drugs bit is a bit controversial, but it has been a shamanic tool for thousands of years specefically meant for spiritual awakening. I used them in that respect responsibly and would only reccomend it with strict guidelines. Needless to say I no longer use these drugs but still give them credit for much of my spiritual growth. I give specific examples if anyone is interested.


#25    BlackBearWolf

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 01:24 AM

View PostJGirl, on 27 December 2012 - 01:09 AM, said:

i have to be honest and say i didn't understand the OP
to me it was sort of a bunch of random thought fragments. sorry.
as forthe term self realization...
sort of a contradiction really, as the self is ever changing, so can never be realized. (this is going on my opinion that self is ego)
i think it's more important to examine our spiritual nature and not spend so much time posturing with meditation and rituals and herbs and drugs and whatever else.
a journey is not its rituals.
I would propose that the self is intertwined with everything therefore if you are aware of everything then you are aware of yourself.
Could you give me an example of how your foster your spiritual nature?


#26    JGirl

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 01:44 AM

View PostBlackBearWolf, on 27 December 2012 - 01:24 AM, said:

I would propose that the self is intertwined with everything therefore if you are aware of everything then you are aware of yourself.
Could you give me an example of how your foster your spiritual nature?
how i foster it? i just pay attention to it. i'm very aware of it as separate from my self. it's just that simple for me. not sure if you're wanting me to give you a play by play on 'what i do' to validate it.

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#27    BlackBearWolf

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 02:07 AM

.my point was that you said you don't need rituals. I think everyone including yourself has their own unique rituals .


#28    Beany

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 02:51 AM

I have begun to move away from rituals myself. While I love them and find they bring me peace & serenity, along with balance, the rituals I've engaged in in the past feel empty to me. Maybe this means I'll move on to some other kind of ritual, maybe I won't, but as another poster said, self is constantly changing, so what served the old self does not necessarily serve the emergent self.


#29    JGirl

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 02:54 AM

View PostBlackBearWolf, on 27 December 2012 - 02:07 AM, said:

.my point was that you said you don't need rituals. I think everyone including yourself has their own unique rituals .
i didn't say i don't need rituals. i said the journey is not the rituals
people forget that. they think that it's all about the performance of certain rites or ceremonies etc. religion is the biggest offender of that in my opinion, but many who spend most of their time meditating and fasting think that is what it means to be spiritual. hell maybe it is for them. i never found it to be all that useful.
i don't perform deliberate rituals designed to bring me to a different or higher consciousness. if that happens it's in the course of just being and experiencing every day things in a more spiritual way.
the one thing i ask myself when faced with a decision or a problem i must overcome is
how does this serve me (my spirit) in my journey?
this is something some may consider a ritual, however i just see it as taking stock

Edited by JGirl, 27 December 2012 - 02:57 AM.

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#30    BlackBearWolf

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:30 AM

Hi Jgirl. i think we agree on this subject. a ritual doesnt have to be religious in nature or an incantion. I use it in he broadest of senses. for example when i want to feel at peace and inspire my imagination, i go outside at look at the stars through my telescope. since i do this on an almost nightly basis, i consider this to be one of my rituals. I get your point on rituals changing, I no longer take part in orgabnized religion or use drugs.
And meditating isnt as ritualistic as you would think. I dont sit in lotus position humming, lol. I just lay down close my eyes, and my mind takes me many places :)





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