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Taxing the Rich


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#106    ninjadude

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:23 PM

View PostRavenHawk, on 11 December 2012 - 02:37 PM, said:

So you think that the top 10% paying 70% of the tax burden is fair?  I'm sure that you wouldn't lose sleep if their tax bracket was 90%, eh?
Just because there was a 90% tax bracket in the 50s does not mean that we have the same situation now that we did then that allowed such a policy.

Oh but you pine for the 50's don't you?!! Of course it's fair. Those most able to pay, need to pay more.

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#107    F3SS

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:36 PM

View Postninjadude, on 11 December 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:



No it's not. The sooner you understand that the better. Your household finances and anecdotes are now how government economic policy works.
You're wrong man. Math is math and it's factual, not convenient. So the gov doesn't spend more than it pulls in? The gov doesn't ask for more to pay down a debt? I shouldn't be upset that when they don't pay it down? In ten years we will be another $10T in debt and in ten years $75B from the rich is going to make a difference? You avoid everything by saying government is the be all end all answer. I have no idea why I even like you. You add nothing of substance, ever. And wiki links aren't substance. I want to know how your brain rationalizes things.

View Postninjadude, on 11 December 2012 - 08:23 PM, said:



Oh but you pine for the 50's don't you?!! Of course it's fair. Those most able to pay, need to pay more.
But they do. They pay more than everybody exponentially. When is enough enough? When they are taxed out of their fortune and the poor have enough of their money to be middle class and then everybody is "middle class" and everybody is the same and no one has more than anyone else and everything is fair and equal and liberal fairy dust rains from the sky?

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#108    ninjadude

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:52 PM

View Post-Mr_Fess-, on 11 December 2012 - 08:36 PM, said:

You're wrong man. Math is math and it's factual, not convenient. So the gov doesn't spend more than it pulls in? The gov doesn't ask for more to pay down a debt? I shouldn't be upset that when they don't pay it down? In ten years we will be another $10T in debt and in ten years $75B from the rich is going to make a difference?

Yes it does spend more than it recieves. It's called deficit spending. Has been done for, well most of the last century. No, you should not be upset. During a downturn in the economy is the worst time to be "paying it down". 10 years. Where did you get that number - I know, pulled it out of someplace. Any number you come up with is arbitrary. And yes the 75B will make a difference. Small but still there it is.

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But they do. They pay more than everybody exponentially. When is enough enough? When they are taxed out of their fortune and the poor have enough of their money to be middle class and then everybody is "middle class"

enough?!! They paid NINETY PERCENT 90% in the GLoRIous fifities. They have gotten off with huge breaks since then. The MINOR increase being proposed is nothing. And you're quite wrong in a spectacular way about the poor being middle class.

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#109    F3SS

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 09:00 PM

View Postninjadude, on 11 December 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:



Yes it does spend more than it recieves. It's called deficit spending. Has been done for, well most of the last century. No, you should not be upset. During a downturn in the economy is the worst time to be "paying it down". 10 years. Where did you get that number - I know, pulled it out of someplace. Any number you come up with is arbitrary. And yes the 75B will make a difference. Small but still there it is.



enough?!! They paid NINETY PERCENT 90% in the GLoRIous fifities. They have gotten off with huge breaks since then. The MINOR increase being proposed is nothing. And you're quite wrong in a spectacular way about the poor being middle class.
So you admit the difference is small but can you admit that it is also meaningless when the over budget spending never stops?
So not paying 90% of your income is not paying enough? God, I'd hate to be rich in your world. Who's the one pining for the 50's here? And the part about the poor is not a statement about today. It's what happens when people like you run the country.

Edited by -Mr_Fess-, 11 December 2012 - 09:00 PM.

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#110    DieChecker

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 09:38 PM

View Postninjadude, on 11 December 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

During a downturn in the economy is the worst time to be "paying it down".
How are we supposed to know when the Downturn is over? Obama's advisors said the Recession was over in the Sping of 2009. And here we are 3 1/2 years latter and we supposedly are still in a Downturn.

If you ask a Liberal they will always tell you we are in a downturn, that way they can justify spending of untold billions... and now trillions of dollars.

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#111    joc

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 12:29 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 11 December 2012 - 08:23 PM, said:

So the rich are trying to knock down their closest competition, using Obama? That is not bad as far as conspiricy theorys go. Kind of like when medieval lords would wipe out merchant houses that were getting to influential/rich.
Not the 'rich'.  This is not a Conspiracy Theory...this is fact...there are some on this planet who are not just rich, I called them Super Rich, but in fact they are not even that ...they are Elite Wealth...old money my friend.  If you can get your head around confiscating the wealth of 'the rich' and how that doesn't affect them, then you can get your head around the whole Control Issue that governs the thinking of this Class.

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#112    Tiggs

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 02:51 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 11 December 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

How are we supposed to know when the Downturn is over?

The same way that everyone else does. By looking at the numbers for the USA's GDP Growth.


#113    Yamato

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 03:57 PM

The GDP growth they report with zero percent interest rates and another trillion dollars of debt on the books every year?  

How about the GDP once interest rates start to rise beyond the control of the bond buying's diminishing returns to keep them at zero?   Then we'll know the downturn has just begun.

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#114    Tiggs

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 08:32 PM

View PostYamato, on 12 December 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

The GDP growth they report with zero percent interest rates and another trillion dollars of debt on the books every year?  

How about the GDP once interest rates start to rise beyond the control of the bond buying's diminishing returns to keep them at zero?   Then we'll know the downturn has just begun.

There's only one GDP.


#115    DieChecker

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 08:33 PM

View PostTiggs, on 12 December 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

The same way that everyone else does. By looking at the numbers for the USA's GDP Growth.

OK. So by this site...
http://www.multpl.co...-adjusted/table

The GDP has been going up for 3 years
See a graph of the numbers...
Attached File  GDP.jpg   93.63K   6 downloads

So then how many years of Growth are needed before we are NOT in a "Downturn"? How many years before we start to cut back and let the "upturn" instead fill the coffers, as Keynesian economics demands?

That graphs slope does not look so different from 2001 to 2004 then it does from 2010 to 2012

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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#116    questionmark

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 08:39 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 12 December 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

OK. So by this site...
http://www.multpl.co...-adjusted/table

The GDP has been going up for 3 years
See a graph of the numbers...
Attachment GDP.jpg

So then how many years of Growth are needed before we are NOT in a "Downturn"? How many years before we start to cut back and let the "upturn" instead fill the coffers, as Keynesian economics demands?

That graphs slope does not look so different from 2001 to 2004 then it does from 2010 to 2012

Several at more than 3% growth (as 2.5-4% is GDP created by new debts...which is not really growth). A normal country is in (real) recession when the GDP goes negative. Given of the loose treatment of debts (government, private and commercial) in the US anything below 3% is an actual recession...even in a good year.

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#117    Tiggs

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 08:40 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 12 December 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

So then how many years of Growth are needed before we are NOT in a "Downturn"? How many years before we start to cut back and let the "upturn" instead fill the coffers, as Keynesian economics demands?

By raising tax rates?

Take a wild guess.


#118    DieChecker

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 09:03 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 12 December 2012 - 08:39 PM, said:

Several at more than 3% growth (as 2.5-4% is GDP created by new debts...which is not really growth). A normal country is in (real) recession when the GDP goes negative. Given of the loose treatment of debts (government, private and commercial) in the US anything below 3% is an actual recession...even in a good year.
So we've not been doing really well since... when? A long azz time??

How can Keynesian economics work, when spending needs to occur always? When there is never a Upswing to provide funds to actually Fund the Downturn spending??

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#119    DieChecker

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 09:04 PM

View PostTiggs, on 12 December 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

By raising tax rates?

Take a wild guess.
I really don't know, that is why I asked.

I'm going to guess (using current budget practices)... Never?

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#120    Tiggs

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 09:26 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 12 December 2012 - 09:04 PM, said:


I really don't know, that is why I asked.

I'm going to guess (using current budget practices)... Never?

Allegedly - there have been Democratic plans to raise tax rates recently.

Hint: This entire thread.





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