51 replies to this topic

[and then]

WHO U KIDDIN, on 29 November 2012 - 04:54 AM, said:

It's all about respect, if we learned to treat each other with mutual respect and courtesy the world would surely be Paradise, and no one would even dream of heaven.

It's a bit long - you have to do a short study to find who those people groups are today because unlike Israel they are not known by the same names after 2 millennia. They are Syria, Jordan Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Egypt and include the Palestinians who make up Hamas and the Lebanese who make up Hizballah.  The one phrase that I highlighted could have been taken from a newspaper today.  Scoffers scoff, believers watch and pray.  Christ's words do not nullify prophecy of the OT - He came to fulfill the law.  And making observations about the signs of the times - being a messenger - does not make one a warmonger.


Psalm 83^[a]

A song. A psalm of Asaph.

¹ O God, do not remain silent;
do not turn a deaf ear,
do not stand aloof, O God.
² See how your enemies growl,
how your foes rear their heads.
³ With cunning they conspire against your people;
they plot against those you cherish.
⁴ “Come,” they say, “let us destroy them as a nation,
so that Israel’s name is remembered no more.”

⁵ With one mind they plot together;
they form an alliance against you—
⁶ the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites,
of Moab and the Hagrites,
⁷ Byblos, Ammon and Amalek,
Philistia, with the people of Tyre.
⁸ Even Assyria has joined them
to reinforce Lot’s descendants.^[b]

⁹ Do to them as you did to Midian,
as you did to Sisera and Jabin at the river Kishon,
¹⁰ who perished at Endor
and became like dung on the ground.
¹¹ Make their nobles like Oreb and Zeeb,
all their princes like Zebah and Zalmunna,
¹² who said, “Let us take possession
of the pasturelands of God.”

¹³ Make them like tumbleweed, my God,
like chaff before the wind.
¹⁴ As fire consumes the forest
or a flame sets the mountains ablaze,
¹⁵ so pursue them with your tempest
and terrify them with your storm.
¹⁶ Cover their faces with shame, Lord,
so that they will seek your name.

¹⁷ May they ever be ashamed and dismayed;
may they perish in disgrace.
¹⁸ Let them know that you, whose name is the Lord—
that you alone are the Most High over all the earth.

Footnotes:

[and then]

acidhead, on 29 November 2012 - 06:20 AM, said:

Of course Iran is working on a bomb... a really really big one.  One the size of frosty the snowman's head.  It's huge.

I'd start running right now if I were you.

If they aren't working on building a nuclear weapon then they have to be the stupidest human beings that ever took a breath     Starving their people of goods and services, becoming a Pariah nation and risking a major war that could unseat the government so they can.... generate electricity?  Uh huh....yeah, that's the ticket     And the computer test designs for specific bomb configurations mentioned in the press a couple days ago?  The fact that they are wholesale removing even the earth that Parchin was built on (from under a tent no less) so that satellites can't snoop?  No..no bomb technology being acquired here - move along.

[WHO U KIDDIN]

and then, on 29 November 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

It's a bit long - you have to do a short study to find who those people groups are today because unlike Israel they are not known by the same names after 2 millennia. They are Syria, Jordan Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Egypt and include the Palestinians who make up Hamas and the Lebanese who make up Hizballah.  The one phrase that I highlighted could have been taken from a newspaper today.  Scoffers scoff, believers watch and pray.  Christ's words do not nullify prophecy of the OT - He came to fulfill the law.  And making observations about the signs of the times - being a messenger - does not make one a warmonger.


Psalm 83^[a]

A song. A psalm of Asaph.

¹ O God, do not remain silent;
do not turn a deaf ear,
do not stand aloof, O God.
² See how your enemies growl,
how your foes rear their heads.
³ With cunning they conspire against your people;
they plot against those you cherish.
⁴ “Come,” they say, “let us destroy them as a nation,
so that Israel’s name is remembered no more.”

⁵ With one mind they plot together;
they form an alliance against you—
⁶ the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites,
of Moab and the Hagrites,
⁷ Byblos, Ammon and Amalek,
Philistia, with the people of Tyre.
⁸ Even Assyria has joined them
to reinforce Lot’s descendants.^[b]

⁹ Do to them as you did to Midian,
as you did to Sisera and Jabin at the river Kishon,
¹⁰ who perished at Endor
and became like dung on the ground.
¹¹ Make their nobles like Oreb and Zeeb,
all their princes like Zebah and Zalmunna,
¹² who said, “Let us take possession
of the pasturelands of God.”

¹³ Make them like tumbleweed, my God,
like chaff before the wind.
¹⁴ As fire consumes the forest
or a flame sets the mountains ablaze,
¹⁵ so pursue them with your tempest
and terrify them with your storm.
¹⁶ Cover their faces with shame, Lord,
so that they will seek your name.

¹⁷ May they ever be ashamed and dismayed;
may they perish in disgrace.
¹⁸ Let them know that you, whose name is the Lord—
that you alone are the Most High over all the earth.

Footnotes:

It's sad that you have bought into Bill Salus’ completely erroneous interpretation of Psalm 83. Even Wikipedia’s interpretation of the Psalm 83 is closer to the truth then the false meanings attributed by Salus to this Psalm.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psalm_83

According to Dr. Thomas Ice noted Christian theologian, Psalm 83 is simply a song, and it is known as Asaph’s Lament, it is not a prohecy.

Dr. Ice writes:

Psalm 83 is “a national lament which includes prayer and imprecations.” It should be further noted that a national lament Psalm is usually composed of the following structure: 1) An introductory cry to God. 2) A lament. 3) A confession of the Psalmist trust. 4) A petition. 5) A vow of praise or expression of praise.Psalm 83 has all of these elements, except for the last item.The Psalm is divided as follows: 1) An introductory cry to God (83:1). 2) A lament or complaint to God (83:2–8). 3) A confession of the Psalmist’s trust in God (83:9–12). 4) A petition or request of God (83:13–18).

Do you notice something missing from this Psalm? There is no response by the Lord to Asaph’s request recorded in Psalm 83. Since there is no response by God then the Lord did not provide a prophecy in Psalm 83. The biblical text of Psalm 83 does not contain a prophecy no matter what some contend when they call it “the Psalm 83 war.” Read more here: http://www.pre-trib.org/articles/view/consistent-biblical-futurism-part-13

Bill Salus is an infamous end-of-times false ‘prophet’ the kind that Christ warned us about in the New Testament:


1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come ; and even now already is it in the world.
John 1: 4-5
_{King James Version (KJV)}

⁴ And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
⁵ For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
_{Matthew 24:4-5
King James Version (KJV)}

Bill Salus is just like Harold Camping the doomsday minister that swindled millions from his followers by having them donate their savings to his church and then forming caravans of believers to crisscross America to promote their message of the coming end of the world.

"But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." Matthew 24:36 (KJV)

Salus' theology is no different then that of Rabbi Yossef, Sheikh Rahman, or Rev. Jones he is from the same school of eschatology that promotes the fundamentalist fanaticism that is attempting to lead the world to war. It's no coincidence how perfectly his views on a Greater Israel fit so well with Zionist aspirations for the Middle East.

[and then]

How do you feel about the various interpretations of the Ezekiel 38/39 conflict?  Do you feel that this also is not prophecy, or perhaps Isaiah 17?  Just curious.  My belief in the prophetic nature of Psalm 83 is based on the need for Israel to be "at peace" when the Ez 38/39 event happens.  I readily admit that I am no scholar but this train of events seems the most logical to me.  I do not anticipate that end time events are going to be "magically" accomplished.  I think they will appear out of the dust and confusion of everyday conflict going on in front of our eyes.

[Coffey]

Hasina, on 27 November 2012 - 06:02 PM, said:

Graph Suggests Iran Working on Bomb

Iranian scientists have run computer simulations for a nuclear weapon that would produce more than triple the explosive force of the World War II bomb that destroyed Hiroshima, according to a diagram obtained by The Associated Press.
The diagram was leaked by officials from a country critical of Iran's atomic program to bolster their arguments that Iran's nuclear program must be halted before it produces a weapon. The officials provided the diagram only on condition that they and their country not be named.

Source: http://abcnews.go.co...91#.ULUBmeQ72Ag

The article has been edited and does not contain anything posted in the OP now.

Someone posted int he comments saying an expert has looked at the graph and it does not look like a bomb.... So i'm guessing the article was updated witht hat information and some point and then edited again.

So this is just hearsay and bad media coverage.

CuriousGreek, on 27 November 2012 - 06:27 PM, said:

If Iran achieves creating this bomb, we are all screwed (sorry for using this expression). The whole situation in Middle East is really worrying...

Iran has not attacked anyone since the 70's.... Why do people fall for this stupid propaganda?!

[lightly]

The New Richard Nixon, on 27 November 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

If Romney was president, world war 3 would happen now

  I think WW3 is happening now.  in slow motion.  Warfare has changed.. it can be much more subtle and hard to explain nowadays.

[WHO U KIDDIN]

and then, on 29 November 2012 - 11:34 PM, said:

How do you feel about the various interpretations of the Ezekiel 38/39 conflict?  Do you feel that this also is not prophecy, or perhaps Isaiah 17?  Just curious.  My belief in the prophetic nature of Psalm 83 is based on the need for Israel to be "at peace" when the Ez 38/39 event happens.  I readily admit that I am no scholar but this train of events seems the most logical to me.  I do not anticipate that end time events are going to be "magically" accomplished.  I think they will appear out of the dust and confusion of everyday conflict going on in front of our eyes.

First  I am not a bible scholar nor theologian, but I have read the Bible (I was once a seminarian). I also believe that Ez.38/39 are prophecies about the latter days. I just don’t accept the falsehoods from the Zionist Christian end-of-timers that these prophecies pertain to the current situation that is playing out today in the Middle East.

For instance in Ez.38/39 the prophecy concerning the war of Gog and Magog I can definitely tell you will not happen until after Christ’s second coming and at the end of his 1000-year reign on earth.If you re-read Rev.20 you will see that this is what is written. Unless I’ve missed it Christ has not returned yet and he’s not reigning over earth.

As to Isaiah 17 there are many scholars that will argue that its story is historical rather than prophetic.  http://en.wikipedia..../Bible_prophecy . I also find 18^th century theologian Matthew Henry’s commentary rather enlightening on the subject.  http://www.christnot...m=mhc&b=23&c=17

[Hasina]

Coffey, on 30 November 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

The article has been edited and does not contain anything posted in the OP now.

Someone posted int he comments saying an expert has looked at the graph and it does not look like a bomb.... So i'm guessing the article was updated witht hat information and some point and then edited again.

So this is just hearsay and bad media coverage.



Iran has not attacked anyone since the 70's.... Why do people fall for this stupid propaganda?!

Welp, slap the hat off my head and call me a 'scrumbucket', thanks for the catch on that.

Y'all hear that guys? There's no story. I was fooled and duped by the media... I now know what it feels like to be an ordinary American.

Edited by Hasina, 30 November 2012 - 07:28 PM.

[and then]

WHO U KIDDIN, on 30 November 2012 - 07:26 PM, said:

First  I am not a bible scholar nor theologian, but I have read the Bible (I was once a seminarian). I also believe that Ez.38/39 are prophecies about the latter days. I just don’t accept the falsehoods from the Zionist Christian end-of-timers that these prophecies pertain to the current situation that is playing out today in the Middle East.

For instance in Ez.38/39 the prophecy concerning the war of Gog and Magog I can definitely tell you will not happen until after Christ’s second coming and at the end of his 1000-year reign on earth.If you re-read Rev.20 you will see that this is what is written. Unless I’ve missed it Christ has not returned yet and he’s not reigning over earth.

As to Isaiah 17 there are many scholars that will argue that its story is historical rather than prophetic.  http://en.wikipedia..../Bible_prophecy . I also find 18^th century theologian Matthew Henry’s commentary rather enlightening on the subject.  http://www.christnot...m=mhc&b=23&c=17

Then we disagree on all points, as I suspected.  No harm, no foul.  Time will tell who is correct.  I pride myself on being able to admit when I am proven wrong but that has not happened yet, only alternative theories and interpretations have been offered.  Meantime I will continue to pray and watch the events unfolding at a rather rapid pace in the world each day.

[WHO U KIDDIN]

and then, on 28 November 2012 - 01:48 AM, said:

"If Americans and Europeans would have thought like this in the 40's and 50's, then the world would have gone to hell back then when both the old USSR and Red China first developed their nuclear weapons capabilities"
Discounting the religious insanity of the Iranian twelvers is a mistake, IMO.  Russia and China were Atheistic powers and as such had a sane approach to projecting power with their nukes.  Religious fanatics don't have as much in the way of restraint in a critical situation.  I agree that the mullahs are probably, at the heart, power hungry cowards who will happily talk others into suicide but flee from personal harm.  The problem though is that there are very many in Hamas, Hizballah and the Palestinian crowd in general who are TRUE BELIEVERS.  Once Iran has their nuke - and I firmly believe it just to be a matter of time regardless what Israel or the US does now -  those true believers will feel emboldened to push Israel and feel they are untouchable.  Israel has shown timidity in this last exchange and they will pay a price for that in the next round.  Eventually one of these proxies will push too hard and Israel will begin another round like what we saw a few days ago but THAT time Iran will not sit idly by, they will begin to flex their nuclear muscles.  Threats, counter threats and hair trigger alerts will follow.  The politics of all this, as well as "rights" to possess such weapons will suddenly be forgotten as the world body tries to cool the flames before they fall into the abyss.  An Iranian and eventually probably Egyptian and Saudi bomb will destabilize the area to a point that makes nuclear war almost inescapable.  And the UN and particularly the West seems powerless to stop it now.Arguing about who was right or wrong in the aftermath will be pointless but I bet it still happens.  

Religious fanatics don't have as much in the way of restraint in a critical situation.
Then even the TRUE BELIEVERS understand MAD.
Here's a good article from the NY Times on this issue:
http://www.nytimes.c...wanted=all&_r=0

[and then]

WHO U KIDDIN, on 01 December 2012 - 12:40 AM, said:

Religious fanatics don't have as much in the way of restraint in a critical situation.
Then even the TRUE BELIEVERS understand MAD.
Here's a good article from the NY Times on this issue:
http://www.nytimes.c...wanted=all&_r=0

Lots of "probablys" and "maybes" in that article.  But I never argued that Iran would do something as honorable as attempt to attack Israel in a way that would cause immediate reprisal.  Such arguments are irrelevant.  The problem will come when Iran's proxies overstep.  They have a history of that and Israel has a history of hitting back hard when it happens.  After the bomb is assembled, Iran's leaders will be eager to gain some advantage from it - the cost has been great enough after all.  And THEN the dance will begin.  Israel on a hair trigger alert and Iran posturing over their proxies' right to "self defense".  It will lead to war - just a matter of time.  And all it will take is a single miscalculation for a nuclear war to begin - hopefully only a regional version.

[WHO U KIDDIN]

Hasina, on 30 November 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

Welp, slap the hat off my head and call me a 'scrumbucket', thanks for the catch on that.

Y'all hear that guys? There's no story. I was fooled and duped by the media... I now know what it feels like to be an ordinary American.

Yeah, what a nightmare, waking up every day to the Faux TV morning show as you sit with your decaf and read US Today....

There's a followup about the original story in Fair:

http://www.fair.org/...b-drawing-hoax/

[Hasina]

WHO U KIDDIN, on 01 December 2012 - 04:06 AM, said:

Yeah, what a nightmare, waking up every day to the Faux TV morning show as you sit with your decaf and read US Today....

There's a followup about the original story in Fair:

http://www.fair.org/...b-drawing-hoax/

What's scary is, living in Texas, you just described many of my childhood memories. Though to be fair, I wouldn't be cause dead drinking decaf

[.AKUMA.]

http://rt.com/news/i...gram-gaffe-029/

Hmm the graph was apparentley a hoax! Though im not supprised.

[and then]

]So, because some unknown entity  decides to put up a silly hoax it validates the crowd who still mindlessly bleat about Iran having no desire to build a bomb?  I think we have become so polarized politically in this country that we would risk dying to have our views proven correct.  Iran has stated that they have no desire to build an atomic weapon.  They say they want to generate electricity and create medical isotopes.  The western nations have offered both fuels for these processes if the enrichment would stop - Iran refused.  The West has suspicions based on intel that Iran worked on test explosions that would have left undeniable signatures in the environment around the military base at Parchin and asked to inspect so as to allay those fears - Iran said no.  Then started a clean up of the site that includes placing a tent over it and excavating even the soil from the ground beneath the building (now demolished) that the tests were conducted in.  Those who are honest enough to just say they support Iran having a bomb - I respect - I will always disagree but I respect their integrity.  I suspect the whole issue has become less a problem with Iran and more a way to stand against Israel.  Cutting off one's nose in order to spite their face is an expression I learned as a kid - it fits here perfectly.  Leaving aside the diagrams, if anyone still needs more evidence to come to the conclusion that Iran is developing a nuclear weapon then they are being disingenuous at best, I think.