142 replies to this topic

[Jinxdom]

If your single and need to be married to do something I'll marry you just for that. Such a nice guy right (as the words polygamy, harem and multiple wives pillow fight bounce through my head).  I'm kidding both ideas theirs and mine are horrible.

[with bells on]

these christian groups are out of control... nothing christian about them..

[eight bits]

The OP story gives the website for the Christian group. So I went there, and I found this:

http://www.uccf.org....en-speakers.htm

Quote

BUCU statement on women speakers

Bristol University Christian Union (BUCU) deplores the recent exaggerations and misrepresentations in some parts of the media of its position on women's ministry in the church.

It is well known that Christian churches differ on this question. BUCU is not a church, but a student society, so it has never had a formal policy on women's ministry.

In recent months, the Executive Committee have been exploring ways in which BUCU can best accommodate members with divergent and strongly held convictions, while expressing our unity as Christian believers. In line with our basic position throughout that process, which has not been widely publicised, the Executive Committee now wish to make clear that we will extend speaker invitations to both women and men, to all BUCU events, without exception.

BUCU is utterly committed to reflecting the core biblical truth of the fundamental equality of women and men.

BUCU Executive Committee
5 December 2012

The OP story is Bull#.

[ouija ouija]

eight bits, on 06 December 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

The OP story gives the website for the Christian group. So I went there, and I found this:
http://www.uccf.org....en-speakers.htm
The OP story is Bull#.

Umm, actually no ...... it isn't Bull#! At the bottom of the page you've given a link for, you'll find this:

http://www.uccf.org....tian-unions.htm

It's a statement from the UCCF(Universities of College Christian Fellowship), a group which covers 200+ UK Christian Student Unions. The fourth paragraph is particularly interesting, as is the sixth. Let's not forget that Bristol have only just started to allow women to the meetings at all, and think they are doing them a big favour with that! My guess is that the male(s) running this group
have been challenged and have quickly made a 'concession' to the women hoping that would be an end to it. This statement, and the one that you posted are simply damage limitation and bluff('accuse the accuser').

I notice in the statement you posted that although they are going to 'extend speaker invitations to both men and women', they don't say whether or not the women speakers will have to have their husbands with them! Which, when you remember that this is what the furore has been all about, you would think they would want to be very clear on. Also, it will be interesting to see, over the coming months, exactly how many women speakers they do have.

In the statement that you linked(which is from Bristol University Christian Union), the way it is phrased is very telling! Look at that first sentence, it's nothing to do with their position about women in their students' union. The second sentence: this has left them, in the past, to do whatever they like.  This is the best they can come up with even after all the bad publicity they've had.

Edited by ouija ouija, 06 December 2012 - 03:02 PM.

[Merc14]

BIG differences here between an Sharia law and a Christian Union at a university:
1.  No one is going to chop your head off if you decide to quit the union.
2.  No one is forced by intimidation and dezath threats to join this union or this church.
3.  These people are not forcing their views on others.
4.  These people are not demanding the world live by their rules.

As usual, the story is an exaggeration of what is really going on and drew the desired response from the target audience.  This is how the media criminalizes their most hated religion, christianity.  Anything you rea din a MSM story regarding christians should be taken with a grain of salt and researched.

I am not a christian (I don't practice any religion) and am not defending this practice but comparing them to fundamentalist muslims living under sharia law is a massive exaggeration that does a disservice to the reader.

Edited by Merc14, 06 December 2012 - 02:50 PM.

[Winter Summer]

scowl, on 06 December 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

Paul made it perfectly clear in 1 Corinthians that women must keep their stupid mouths shut in church. If they're all confused and need help understanding anything they should ask their husbands instead of embarrassing themselves in public. The article sounds like this Christian Union is following exactly what Paul ordered.

Christianity is not that different from Islam if you actually follow it.

Paul made it clear repeatedly that he's estrogen-phobic.

[ouija ouija]

Merc14, on 06 December 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

BIG differences here between an Sharia law and a Christian Union at a university:
1.  No one is going to chop your head off if you decide to quit the union.
2.  No one is forced by intimidation and dezath threats to join this union or this church.
3.  These people are not forcing their views on others.
4.  These people are not demanding the world live by their rules.

As usual, the story is an exaggeration of what is really going on and drew the desired response from the target audience.  This is how the media criminalizes their most hated religion, christianity.  Anything you rea din a MSM story regarding christians should be taken with a grain of salt and researched.

I am not a christian (I don't practice any religion) and am not defending this practice but comparing them to fundamentalist muslims living under sharia law is a massive exaggeration that does a disservice to the reader.

You seem to have massively overeacted to this story in a way that suggests to me you have an 'anti-Muslim' agenda. I re-read the link I put to the Daily Mail article and there is nothing, nothing in it that has been proved to be untrue, and nothing in it that is in any way an 'exaggeration'. Far from 'criminalising their most hated religion, Christianity', I would suggest that the media is doing a wonderful job of bringing our attention to extremists who are trying to pervert the religion! I have looked at several other newspaper accounts of this today and I found nothing that was sensationalist or untrue. I also looked at various online sites connected with Bristol University itself; it is very obvious that this story is true and everyone concerned is desperately trying to bluff their way through the publicity and praying it will blow over as soon as possible.  

Let's be clear: some posters in this thread have compared it to sharia law(some in a jokey way), but I have yet to find a newspaper article that has made the same comparision.

I would guess that the most influential person(up until now),in the University's Christian Student Union has always been anti the presence of women in the church and has felt emboldened by the recent vote against women priests. I have yet to find out who this person is ....... you'd think they'd be mentioned on the University's CU online site, wouldn't you?

[scowl]

with bells on, on 06 December 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

these christian groups are out of control... nothing christian about them..

Just following the Bible. Paul clearly stated that women are stupid. Enough men agreed with him to put it in 1 Corinthians.

Winter Summer, on 06 December 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

Paul made it clear repeatedly that he's estrogen-phobic.

Which is how all Christian men should be. If you don't want to follow what's written in the Holy Bible then you'll have to find another religion.

[Merc14]

ouija ouija, on 06 December 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

You seem to have massively overeacted to this story in a way that suggests to me you have an 'anti-Muslim' agenda. I re-read the link I put to the Daily Mail article and there is nothing, nothing in it that has been proved to be untrue, and nothing in it that is in any way an 'exaggeration'. Far from 'criminalising their most hated religion, Christianity', I would suggest that the media is doing a wonderful job of bringing our attention to extremists who are trying to pervert the religion! I have looked at several other newspaper accounts of this today and I found nothing that was sensationalist or untrue. I also looked at various online sites connected with Bristol University itself; it is very obvious that this story is true and everyone concerned is desperately trying to bluff their way through the publicity and praying it will blow over as soon as possible.  

Massively overeacted?  Really?  Hmm, where do you see that?  I wrote down that many here are overreacting and comparing this to sharia law.  I read the union's  response and I disagree with you that "nothing in it has been proved untrue."  As far as the anti-muslim agenda you accuse me of having, I am married to a muslim woman and we have a child together so I guess I am not that anti-muslim (guess that didn't work). I am, however, anti-Sharia law?  Are you for sharia law?

ouija ouija, on 06 December 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

Let's be clear: some posters in this thread have compared it to sharia law(some in a jokey way), but I have yet to find a newspaper article that has made the same comparision.

I never said that the article referred to it as sharia like, I was referring to people's responses here.

ouija ouija, on 06 December 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

I would guess that the most influential person(up until now),in the University's Christian Student Union has always been anti the presence of women in the church and has felt emboldened by the recent vote against women priests. I have yet to find out who this person is ....... you'd think they'd be mentioned on the University's CU online site, wouldn't you?

The whole catholic church is against the presence of women in the clergy, so what's new there?  Not sure who this mysterious person is or if he even exists and neither do you apparently but you have a feeling and that, I guess, is good enough proff to claim cover-up.  Just like you had a feeling I was anti0-muslim and that was good enough to accuse me of it.

I think you have massivley overreacted to my entire post.  

[ouija ouija]

Merc14, on 06 December 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

Massively overeacted?  Really?  Hmm, where do you see that?  I wrote down that many here are overreacting and comparing this to sharia law.  I read the union's  response and I disagree with you that "nothing in it has been proved untrue."  As far as the anti-muslim agenda you accuse me of having, I am married to a muslim woman and we have a child together so I guess I am not that anti-muslim (guess that didn't work). I am, however, anti-Sharia law?  Are you for sharia law?
I never said that the article referred to it as sharia like, I was referring to people's responses here.
The whole catholic church is against the presence of women in the clergy, so what's new there?  Not sure who this mysterious person is or if he even exists and neither do you apparently but you have a feeling and that, I guess, is good enough proff to claim cover-up.  Just like you had a feeling I was anti0-muslim and that was good enough to accuse me of it.
I think you have massivley overreacted to my entire post.  

No, you didn't say that many here are overreacting and comparing this to sharia law(in fact only one poster did that), which is why I understood you to be referring to the general readership of the newspapers.

'This is how the media criminalises their most hated religion, christianity' ..... if that isn't overreacting, I don't know what is.

'I am not a christian and I am not defending this practice, but comparing them to fundamentalist muslims living under sharia law is a massive exaggeration that does a disservice to the reader': only one poster here did that and none of the articles I have read have done that, so again I feel you have jumped to a conclusion and overreacted.

We will have to agree to disagree regarding the Union's response.

I did not actually accuse you of having an anti-muslim agenda, I merely commented that that was what your reaction suggested to me. (Having a muslim spouse would not necessarily prevent you from having anti-muslim feelings).

Union's have leaders, people who run them ...... why wouldn't his/her name be on the Union's site? Most people are extremely proud to be the president of a uni-group because it looks good on their CV.

[Setton]

ouija ouija, on 06 December 2012 - 09:36 PM, said:

Union's have leaders, people who run them ...... why wouldn't his/her name be on the Union's site? Most people are extremely proud to be the president of a uni-group because it looks good on their CV.

It's right there under exec...

Interestingly, the exec seems to be almost exactly half and half of each gender.

Don't get me wrong, if they are doing what the media is claiming, I'm wholly against it. I just think some people could do to check their facts before they jump to conclusions.

[darkmoonlady]

Discrimination against women has always been a facet of the Christian Church it's just that now that women are rising in power certain factions feel more threatened and now we have this hitting the public. Depending on the school and the denomination of the administration there are even stronger rules against women and equal rights for women. Some religious colleges here in the states do not allow women to wear pants, either at school or work in places where they have to wear pants. You can't make this stuff up.

[ouija ouija]

Setton, on 06 December 2012 - 11:02 PM, said:

It's right there under exec...

Interestingly, the exec seems to be almost exactly half and half of each gender.

Don't get me wrong, if they are doing what the media is claiming, I'm wholly against it. I just think some people could do to check their facts before they jump to conclusions.

Thank you. For some reason I assumed the leaders' names would be on the 'home' page. James Howlett(International Chair), has resigned because he feels so strongly that women shouldn't be teaching.

I'm not surprised the exec has a number of women in it; there are plenty of women who are anti women priests.

No conclusions being jumped to here! No-one from Bristol uni is denying what the papers are reporting ....... but they are trying to explain why it's happened.

[Setton]

ouija ouija, on 07 December 2012 - 12:04 AM, said:

I'm not surprised the exec has a number of women in it; there are plenty of women who are anti women priests.

True and good point.

Quote

No conclusions being jumped to here! No-one from Bristol uni is denying what the papers are reporting ....... but they are trying to explain why it's happened.

I was referring to people's assumptions that the exec would be male dominated and that the president would want to keep his name away from the public.

Edited by Setton, 07 December 2012 - 12:21 AM.

[Merc14]

ouija ouija, on 06 December 2012 - 09:36 PM, said:

No, you didn't say that many here are overreacting and comparing this to sharia law(in fact only one poster did that), which is why I understood you to be referring to the general readership of the newspapers.

'This is how the media criminalises their most hated religion, christianity' ..... if that isn't overreacting, I don't know what is.

'I am not a christian and I am not defending this practice, but comparing them to fundamentalist muslims living under sharia law is a massive exaggeration that does a disservice to the reader': only one poster here did that and none of the articles I have read have done that, so again I feel you have jumped to a conclusion and overreacted.

We will have to agree to disagree regarding the Union's response.

I did not actually accuse you of having an anti-muslim agenda, I merely commented that that was what your reaction suggested to me. (Having a muslim spouse would not necessarily prevent you from having anti-muslim feelings).

Union's have leaders, people who run them ...... why wouldn't his/her name be on the Union's site? Most people are extremely proud to be the president of a uni-group because it looks good on their CV.

Not much more to say here. Thanks.