A Believable Account

[Ultima Weapon]

I actually have come to believe this man. This account may very well have just radically changed my life, and helped to put things in true perspective...

I hope and pray this does the same to all of you...

[markprice]

I actually have come to believe this man. This account may very well have just radically changed my life, and helped to put things in true perspective...

I hope and pray this does the same to all of you...

The "second heaven" and "the devil is not in hell yet" are inaccurate attempts to describe what may have been real or partially real or just not interpreted very well. I only watched about fifteen minutes before wondering, since most people have heard something like this before, how this changed your life. What did this "true perspective" do for you?

[Grandpa Greenman]

Each must follow their own Path. If that is where you want to be then so be it.

[Ultima Weapon]

The "second heaven" and "the devil is not in hell yet" are inaccurate attempts to describe what may have been real or partially real or just not interpreted very well. I only watched about fifteen minutes before wondering, since most people have heard something like this before, how this changed your life. What did this "true perspective" do for you?

Well, that's your opinion. I don't know about this "second heaven" thing, but it makes sense to me. However I don't think I'll preach it much sense that particular instance changes much of anything. I mean really, what does it matter where Satan's located?

Anyway, this "true perspective" helped me realize eaxctly how much activity there really is in this world, as well as God's power and authority at the day of judgement. (that part was near the end of the video)

Either way, it's inspired me to be a little more active myself. Which to me is proof enough that it was truly divine.

[+Paranoid Android]

Ok, I watched all 62 minutes of the video. My biggest question is - how long was this NDE? How long was he in this experience? The video relays that he travelled through the second heaven, taking a tour of the entire place and being shown what demons can do. He then eventually goes to the third heaven and has an unpleasant encounter with God. He leaves and just for good measure before he gets back to his body he requests to see God once again. So they about face, and travel once again to the third heaven, he has another conversation with God, and then presumably he travels back to his body and wakes up.

One thing bothers me about this. He compares his trip and the dangers he faced to the angel in Daniel chapter 10. It took this angel 21 days to make the trip from God to Daniel. No sight-seeing, no return trip (let alone two full return trips). All things being equal, it should have taken him near to 88 days to make two return trips, plus more time to go in the opposite direction and take a tour of the second heaven.

But with that said, that's not to say that his experience is invalid. I did get two overriding messages that I found to be quite true and thought-provoking.

1- Demons tempt us people. I feel this to be quite true. I don't necessarily agree with the description of these demons (eg, the frog-like creature of lust), and certainly not in the sense of being "possessed" by the demon every time we sin, but if we take it metaphorically, the idea of possession representing our turning away from God, I'm happy to take that. Perhaps if this was a vision from God it was intended metaphorically, though I get the impression that the person to whom this happened took it far more literally.

2- The other overriding theme is that of serving God rather than ourselves. Too often Christians serve God with their mouths, perhaps even offering token gestures to God. But when it comes down to it, they're really just serving themselves. They look out for their own needs and wants, and only once they are taken care of do they turn to God and serve him. The realisation this guy came to - that our physical life is not important, but our service to God is very important - is a theological truth that rings true for all. If this man had a true change of heart as a result of this, then I applaud it. As said, maybe it was a vision intended to show him a theological truth rather than an actual depiction of things to come, and while I may perhaps accept that, I do not think this guy felt that way about the experience. I get the impression he thought of it a as a real physical event and what he experienced is what things are actually like in the spirit realm.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the matter

~ Regards, PA

Edited February 7, 2013 by Paranoid Android

[Ultima Weapon]

Either way, I'm certainly glad you took something from it.

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

I don't know about this "second heaven" thing, but it makes sense to me.

Anyway, this "true perspective" helped me realize eaxctly how much activity there really is in this world, as well as God's power and authority at the day of judgement. (that part was near the end of the video)

Either way, it's inspired me to be a little more active myself. Which to me is proof enough that it was truly divine.

Hi AquilaChrysaetos,

Just sharing. The afterlife has levels of reality. The Void is one. There is also a reality I call Ethereal or "light" -- a deceased friend welcomed me there. Another is a level where overwhelming, breathtaking, or "awesome" beings reside, but these are shadow beings, and a sense of alarm did hit my "awareness." The first time I have passed away (I was 6 years old) I have experienced a level where luminescent beings (probably angels) reside, but these beings were not welcoming; in fact, they sent me back to earth in a hurry. There is also a level where translucent (as clear as glass) beings float about. Keep in mind that I don't have enough info to really tell you about these levels because I didn't get the chance to stay long enough. The Void's the only place where I gathered enough info, for it felt like I was there for almost a day, but in reality I was there for only 5 or 6 hours -- this event happened in the year 2000.

Peace.

[libstaK]

I find it odd that with his direct experience through the heavens, he tells us really only what the bible has already affirmed. Even his description of the demons, their hierarchy and division into "principalities" is well known in Judaism. It did not speak of any profound revelation more a revision of what history has already stated. That opens the experience to being a creation of his mind based on what he has already read and studied in his life.

I am not overwhelmed by what he has present tbh.

Edited February 7, 2013 by libstaK

[Ciss]

His vision of the second heaven was interesting, not in the descriptions or even in the fact that he chose to see demons and such, but more in his questions of "why?" and the answer of there is no love..

For the three times that Peter denied Jesus, he was asked three times "Do you love me?" Finally answer is "You already KNOW"

When someone ask you "do you love" can you stand firm in "knowing" your "YES!" without feeling a need to prove it? The more you try to prove it the more you prove you do not KNOW! Sort of like asking god for signs and proof and what did Jesus say, "there shall be no signs given!" LOL! Prove you are the son of god...

At the end of the video, god said to him something along the lines of "prove you are a christian"....I would have said back "YOU FIRST!" there shall be no signs given, you will know especially if you are ALL knowing...

[Ultima Weapon]

I find it odd that with his direct experience through the heavens, he tells us really only what the bible has already affirmed. Even his description of the demons, their hierarchy and division into "principalities" is well known in Judaism. It did not speak of any profound revelation more a revision of what history has already stated. That opens the experience to being a creation of his mind based on what he has already read and studied in his life.

I actually find those very facts to make it a much more valid experience.