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#871    skyeagle409

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 09:08 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 15 October 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:

Is it honest debating to claim that the high temps,...

That is in direct conflict of what you said in the past, and since you seem to have forgotten, may I add this as a reminder of what you have said?

Quote

Babe Ruth, on 17 September 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

Kevin Ryan and others pointed out early on that the temps were too low.  That's why he was fired--exposing the lie early on.  This is common knowledge in some circles, but is denied in other circles.  I'm going with Kevin Ryan and the others who analyzed the fires visible with the appropriate sensors. Way too low, and way too short of duration to weaken steel.

In one post, you said the temperatures were high, and in another post, you said the temperatures were too low.   

Quote

Is it honest debating to claim that the statements of people at Shanksville who could not see any wreckage of a Boeing should be disregarded in favor of an "amended" statement by but one of the group?

Any pilot should have known why an intact fuselage was not going to be found at the crash site of United 93. Here is a hint concerning another crash site, and remember, I asked you to identify a Tu-154 at this crash site.

Posted Image

In case you do not know what a Tu-154 looks like, here is a photo.

Posted Image

Now, see if  you can identify the fuselage of a Tu-154 at the crash site. If you are unable to identify the fuselage of a Tu-154, then you will know why no one reported finding an intact fuselage of a B-757 at the crash site of United 93.

Considering they confirmed the crash site near Shanksville as that of United 93, what more is there to say?! As a reminder, United Airlines confirmed the loss of United 93 as well, not to mention photos of wreckage of United 93 at the crash site, and that bodies from United 93 have been identified, but the fact of the matter is, you knew it all along. :yes: .

Quote

Is it honest debating to call ordinary citizens liars regarding such details as thermite residue in the dust,...

Let's just say they were mistaken since ordinary citizens wouldn't know what thermite looks like anyway.

Quote

yet to accept at face value and full faith the statements of government employees with an agenda?

Do you consider that American Airlines and United Airlines government agenies? After all, those airlines confirmed the loss of American 11, American 77, United 93, and United 175.

Edited by skyeagle409, 15 October 2012 - 09:34 PM.

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#872    MID

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 09:38 PM

View PostBone Collector, on 15 October 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

The Reason i show interest being from the UK is not only the fact that it wasnt all americans who died in the WTC there were a fair proportion of folks from the UK.

Yes, you're right.   67 British died at the WTC towers in NYC.  That was 2% of the total people killed there.  I knew that.


Quote

And unless u havnt noticed our troops are shoulder to shoulder with your guys being killed in a phoney oil based war in a foreign country

Uh huh.  You show me one of our boys and girls, or one of the British soldiers who've voluntarily joined the fray if they're being killed and killing in a PHONEY OIL BASED WAR.
I suggest you don't say that stuff to them.  You might not be healthy enough to post after they react to the insult on their intelligence,


So yea it does affect us over the pond and there is a massive interest in the uk for the simple reason that any mistake America makes affects us to,,I don't stand for any side in this debate im simply asking questions searching for answers so i can make my own opinion this includes listening open mindedly to both sides of the coin but like i say theres a lot of blinkered people who dont wanna debate all scenarios there right black is black an white is white and whoever disagrees is of a lesser brain capacity or a raving nut go back through history my friend and you will find so many incidents deemed true back then that in present day have been proven to be preposterous ,,, back to 911 for a sec theres one thing more id like to ask ;; Just before the towers fell there was another building something to do with the CIA if im correct that just collapsed to the ground cud you tell me what happened there please ?? :-*

I can tell you what  happened!
What "mistake" are you referring to that you need any answers to??


#873    Likely Guy

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:24 AM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 15 October 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

Secondly, 7/7 is far more obvious as a false flag to drum up support for Tony Blair's war (which was facing massive protests at the time). At the exact time the bombs went off there were counter terrorists in the London underground "coincidentally"  as there had been no informationindicating a terrorist attack would happen in the UK. There is a news interview with a high level police/counter terrorist who said that the counter terrorist squad were preparing for a terrorist attack in the exact same stations at the exact time the bombs were set off.

If you want to believe that out of all the times a terrorist could attack, it would occur at the exact same time as a counter terrorist exercise in the exact stations that were bombed, that is your right. I will believe what i see is the most likely truth.

By the way, your video was the right one. Thanks for clarifying.

It was by watching it and remembering what you had previously written (bolded above) that I deduced that it was the Peter Power interview.

Except Mr. Power, since 1995 has been working with Visor Consultants. Apparently, he used to work for Scotland Yard sometime before that (but in what capacity I don't know yet). I find it odd that he doesn't relate his police experience on his company website though.

http://www.visorcons...tinuityteam.htm

You'll notice that Visor Consultants specializes in "crisis, risk & business continuity management" which "helps organisations to plan and deliver highly successful scenario based exercises as well as workshops, leadership courses and motivation sessions."

I picture a bunch of guys in a room watching "what if videos" and then talking about how they should react to it.

Not what comes to my mind after you describe him as a "high level police/counter terrorist" who runs a "counter terrorist squad".

If you care to respond, might I suggest we carry this on in an appropriate thread to avoid having a ten way conversation going on.  I'm off to see if there's a separate 7/7 thread that already exists so that these folks can stay on the 9/11 topic.


#874    Likely Guy

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:33 AM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 15 October 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

That link was to show that there was NO TERRORIST THREATS leading up to the bombings and that the counter terrorists were "by coincidence" training to respond to bomb threats.

I cannot find the interview right now, but no doubt it'll be on a youtube video somewhere. Most likely this one but i dont have time to check right now

From reading this, I should assume that what you wrote previously was written in a sarcastic tone/toungue in cheek sort of way? Either what you wrote wasn't very clear, or I'm just being dense. If you don't believe in this particular conspiracy then I apologize for my half of the misunderstanding.


#875    WHO U KIDDIN

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:15 AM

Americans should investigate the reason why 911 happened and why the US continues to march to war.

Numerous points covered in this discussion were inciseful and will probably produce another 100 pages of responses about the technicalities concerning the WTC collapses, the Pentagon strike, and the Shankville crater.

But they all miss a vital point, what was the true motive behind 911 and who would profit most?

Why did Al-Qaeda attack the USA and in doing so start a never-ending war with the West? If Al-Qaeda planned to create a global caliphate why stir the Beast? If for recruitment then perhaps the tactic backfired since several millions Muslim deaths across the Middle East and Central Asia in the past 10 years are a direct result of our war on islamic 'terrorism', and this certainly can not be good recruitment for the global caliphate. And even Osama Bin Laden is now a "martyer" and buried at sea as reported by the Media. It seemed that the Muslims extremists and their allies had nothing to gain and everything to lose by striking at the West.

But there were others that stood to gain. In the mid-1990's a group of neo-cons warmongers formed the Project for the New American Century, members included Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, John Bolton, William Kristol, and Robert Kagan, many of these individuals were former officials in both the Reagan and Bush Sr./Jr. administrations, they formulated a foreign policy initiative that appears to have become official US policy.
( http://www.newamericancentury.org/ )

From Wikipedia:


PNAC STATEMENT OF PRINCIPLES:
As the 20th century draws to a close, the United States stands as the world's pre-eminent power. Having led the West to victory in the Cold War, America faces an opportunity and a challenge: Does the United States have the vision to build upon the achievements of past decades? Does the United States have the resolve to shape a new century favorable to American principles and interests?[5]

In response to these questions, the PNAC states its aim to "remind America" of "lessons" learned from American history, drawing the following "four consequences" for America in 1997:

  • we need to increase defense spending significantly if we are to carry out our global responsibilities today and modernize our armed forces for the future;
  • we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;
  • we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad; [and]
  • we need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles.
...
THE "New Pearl Harbor"

Section V of Rebuilding America's Defenses, entitled "Creating Tomorrow's Dominant Force", includes the sentence: "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor" (51).[14]

Though not arguing that Bush administration PNAC members were complicit in those attacks, other social critics such as commentator Manuel Valenzuela and journalist Mark Danner,[39][40][41] investigative journalist John Pilger, in New Statesman,[42] and former editor of The San Francisco Chronicle Bernard Weiner, in CounterPunch,[43] all argue that PNAC members used the events of 9/11 as the "Pearl Harbor" that they needed––that is, as an "opportunity" to "capitalize on" (in Pilger's words), in order to enact long-desired plans.

source: ( http://en.wikipedia....merican_Century )

These neo-cons envisioned an American empire that no nation on earth could challenge, a true PAX AMERICANA.
General Wesley Clark revealed their plans in an interview he made 2007.
There are many great Americans who question the '911 Truth'.
http://patriotsquestion911.com/
http://www.militaryo...or911truth.org/


#876    Likely Guy

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 04:28 AM

"PAX AMERICANA" as in, th, USA becoming the ROBO (hi-tech) GLOBO (world wide) COP (peace arbiter)?

RoboGloboCop?

Edited by Likely Guy, 16 October 2012 - 05:03 AM.


#877    skyeagle409

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:40 AM

View PostWHO U KIDDIN, on 16 October 2012 - 03:15 AM, said:

Numerous points covered in this discussion were inciseful and will probably produce another 100 pages of responses about the technicalities concerning the WTC collapses, the Pentagon strike, and the Shankville crater.
If Al-Qaeda planned to create a global caliphate why stir the Beast?

The terrorist had planned to attack our interest long before the 9/11 attacks. For an example, the Philippines uncovered and revealed the Bojinka Plot to the United States years before the 9/11 attacks.The terrorist planned to kill 4000 innocent people by blowing up a number of airliners over the Pacific Ocean, and then, fly an aircraft into CIA headquarters.

Quote

The Bojinka Plot

The Bojinka plot was a planned large-scale three phase Islamist attack by Ramzi Yousef and Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. The attack would involve a plot to assassinate Pope John Paul II, an air bombing of 11 airliners and their approximately 4,000 passengers that would have flown from Asia to the United States, and Murad's proposal to crash a plane into the CIA's headquarters in Fairfax County, Virginia, in addition to the plan to bomb multiple aeroplanes

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Bojinka_plot

One of the terrorist involved in the Bojinka Plot was the same person who set off an explosion beneath WTC1 in 1993, and whose uncle was the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks.

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#878    Babe Ruth

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:07 PM

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Right you are sir!

In some places, people prefer to pretend that PNAC does not exist, and sweep it under the rug.

They find it outlandish that a bunch of unelected zealots in the inner circles of government would attempt to advance an agenda that benefits themselves.


#879    skyeagle409

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:13 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 16 October 2012 - 01:07 PM, said:

In some places, people prefer to pretend that PNAC does not exist, and sweep it under the rug.

But, what does that have to do with Muslim terrorist crashing two airliners into the WTC buildings,(American 11 and United 175)  and another into the Pentagon (American 77)? Thanks goodness, passengers of United 93 prevented terrorist from reaching its target.

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#880    Babe Ruth

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:08 PM

If I were to take the time to explain that to you Sky, you would probably not understand.


#881    skyeagle409

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:10 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 16 October 2012 - 07:08 PM, said:

If I were to take the time to explain that to you Sky, you would probably not understand.

LOL!!

You have already proven that you just make things up. :lol: After all, you have claimed that cell phones cannot be used in flight despite people, including myself, using cell phones in flight. Also notced that you failed to answer the question about the lack of a fuselage as the crash site of that Caspian Airlines Tu-154.

I hope you didn't think that I would not have noticed your side-stepping the question. :no:

Edited by skyeagle409, 16 October 2012 - 07:21 PM.

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#882    WHO U KIDDIN

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:10 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 16 October 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

But, what does that have to do with Muslim terrorist crashing two airliners into the WTC buildings,(American 11 and United 175)  and another into the Pentagon (American 77)? Thanks goodness, passengers of United 93 prevented terrorist from reaching its target.

Everything... Skyeagle...Just about everything we are witnessing today...

In the mid 1990's with no more Cold War threatening the US homefront, and our once former enemies the USSR and Red China cozying up to the West, the military industrial complex (the banksters along with the corporate military industrialists) had to explain the necessity of the USA's tremendous expenditures for military spending.

With no more 'RED MENACE' there was no longer the justification for astronimical military spending by the USA , which had bankrupted the Kremlim into submission, and convinced the Chinese to convert into a capitalist totalitarian state. This military 'free-spending' allowed the USA to field and maintain the 2 largest military Air Forces on our planet, the USAAF and the USN AF, neither the Russians nor the Chinese Air Forces combined have the numbers to match the collossus that we own (http://topyaps.com/t...s-of-the-world/).

With Glasnot there would be a 'peace dividend' since now the USA could re-direct resources from its over bloated military into the civilian sector. But unfortunately the 'peace dividend' was not as profitable as actually going to war, so a new enemy was needed, one that would ensure steady customers for our military industrial complex so that they can sell our government and its allies their hardware.

Did you never think it strange that Osama Bin Laden was once America's best friend ? He started his 'terrorist' endeavors assiting the USA in overthrowing the USSR's proxy government in Afganistahn in the '80's.  How convenient that once he became our enemy that it afforded us the pretext to invade the Muslim world.
( http://whatreallyhap...aden_osman.html )


#883    skyeagle409

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:36 PM

View PostWHO U KIDDIN, on 16 October 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:

Everything... Skyeagle...Just about everything we are witnessing today...

In the mid 1990's with no more Cold War threatening the US homefront, and our once former enemies the USSR and Red China cozying up to the West, the military industrial complex (the banksters along with the corporate military industrialists) had to explain the necessity of the USA's tremendous expenditures for military spending.

With no more 'RED MENACE' there was no longer the justification for astronimical military spending by the USA , which had bankrupted the Kremlim into submission, and convinced the Chinese to convert into a capitalist totalitarian state. This military 'free-spending' allowed the USA to field and maintain the 2 largest military Air Forces on our planet, the USAAF and the USN AF, neither the Russians nor the Chinese Air Forces combined have the numbers to match the collossus that we own (http://topyaps.com/t...s-of-the-world/).

Just because the communist threat from the former Soviet Union floated away into the sunset doesn't mean the United States can't update and modernize its military.

Quote

Did you never think it strange that Osama Bin Laden was once America's best friend ?

Says who?

Quote

He started his 'terrorist' endeavors assiting the USA in overthrowing the USSR's proxy government in Afganistahn in the '80's.  How convenient that once he became our enemy that it afforded us the pretext to invade the Muslim world.

( http://whatreallyhap...aden_osman.html )

The CIA wasn't supporting Osama bin Laden and remember, Osama  bin Laden declared war on the United States. And, remember this:

*   Terrorist plotted to fly an aircraft into CIA headquarters, but the United States didn't go to war

*   Terrorist plotted to blow up airliners over the Pacific, but the United States did not go to war

*   Terrorist blew up our embassies in Lebanon, Kenya, and in Tanzania, but the United States did not go to war.

*   Terrorist set off explosives under WTC1 in 1993 and the United States didn't go to war.

*   Terrorist set off explosives next to the USS Cole, and the United States did not go to war.

*   Terrorist downed Pan Am 103 with a bomb, but the United States did not go to war.

You are allowing conspiracy websites to poison your mind with disinformation and misinformation.

Edited by skyeagle409, 16 October 2012 - 08:37 PM.

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#884    WHO U KIDDIN

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:20 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 16 October 2012 - 08:36 PM, said:

You are allowing conspiracy websites to poison your mind with disinformation and misinformation.

Here's some more poisoned disinformation from one of those conspiracy websites as you mentioned, the BBC:

*snip*

Edited by Saru, 18 October 2012 - 09:11 AM.
Video removed for copyright reasons


#885    skyeagle409

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:23 PM

View PostWHO U KIDDIN, on 16 October 2012 - 09:20 PM, said:

Here's some more poisoned disinformation from one of those conspiracy websites as you mentioned, the BBC:

I was in the  military at the time and and at no time was Osama bin Laden a CIA agent. As I have said, don't allow those websites to poison your mind.

Just recently, someone posted a hoaxed video of explosions on WTC7, which was clearly doctored and the person who doctored the video admitted how it was done. Amazingly, some of the 9/11 conspiracist actually used the hoaxed video in their argument.

It shows just how easy it is to plant false and misleading information that 9/11 conspiracist have used in their arguments because they did not know the rest of the story, which is why I have told you not to let those conspiracy websites poison your mind.

Edited by skyeagle409, 16 October 2012 - 09:31 PM.

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