Ask A Christian

[Jodie.Lynne]

By Hel somebody had to do it, since the Christians seem intent on preaching in every other "Ask A...." thread, they must be too busy to start their own.

So here it is, I've done all the work for you. Just don't ask ME to answer any questions.

First Question:

Why are there so many different branches of Christianity?

[SilverCougar]

I thought... there was a ask.. well no that was ask a preacher what it's like to be a preacher.

Well good then! I do support this thread. *nods* Give a few christians a chance to voice their thoughts.

[IamsSon]

Gee, thanks JM, but I'm not sure I'd want you answering questions about Christianity. The Pagans, Atheists, Satanists, have all had the opportunity to answer questions from the standpoint of their beliefs. I think it would only be right to allow us to answer from the point of ours.

[SilverCougar]

He did say he wasn't going to! Soooo.. answer his question! *whipsnap* XD

[OtterLord]

Why are there so many different branches of Christianity?

Ok, I'm not good at answering these kind of questions, but I thought I might as well give it a go and give a very vague answer:

Because we all believe that Christ is the son of God, and that he is the one and only messiah, yet, all the branch-offs have different opinions and customs, so we're never just able to get along, so we all have to be different and have seperate views on the Bible.

See? I'm not very good at this, but I like trying to help.

[+Link of Hyrule]

There are many denominations of Christianity because no one ever has exactly the same views as anyone else. The Bible is no different. Originally there was only one church, the Catholic Church, and they set themselves up as the earthly institution by which God speaks. Then came the protestants, who branched off from the Catholic faith. The protestants had a firm focus on personal interpretation of scripture, whereas once it was a matter of what the Church said was so.

Within the Protestant faith/s, there came to be certain facets of the belief that can be considered "essential" beliefs. These are the beliefs that Christianity cannot exist without, the beliefs essential for salvation. Then there are the non-essential beliefs, that deal with the works we do. This is where the many denominations come into things. When people disagree with a certain doctrine, sometimes a new denomination will sprout up that espouses that particular tenent of faith.

The Bible isn't always black-and-white. There are often grey areas. However, it's the nature of organizations to put things into black-and-white. All organizations (secular as well as religious) have rules, bylaws, a club charter if you will. Christian denominations call their club charter "doctrines". Without such doctrines, no one really knows what the denomination believes, and so they have to be set in stone. And so grey areas are no longer grey, but black or white.

Another reason is that sometimes a denomination develops a tradition that becomes so entrenched that people start thinking it is essential. Then when someone says it's not, there is an inevitable split, which produces a new denomination.

In general, most Chrsitians wouldn't consider themselves "Anglican" or "Presbyterian" or whatever denomination they attend a service at, they'd just say "I'm Christian". This reflects the idea of personal interpretation that was suggested by the original reformers, and still rings true today. Even when Chrsitians disagree on minor points, the essential beliefs are still largely similar.

Of course, exactly what is an "essential belief" is another post I'll make later (unless another Christian answers first), because I've got to head off now. Busy day, yay......

Regards, PA

Edited February 7, 2007 by Paranoid Android

[EmpressStarXVII]

Do any of you believe that somebody who has lived their life full of sin could repent on their deathbed for fear of going to hell, and still go to heaven?

-------

Why was God so...vengeful in the old testiment? I suppose that would be the word to use.

I ask this because I read in one of the books that David was to take a census without accepting gifts from the people, but he did anyway; and God ordered them dead. I could have the wording wrong, but please feel free to correct me if im wrong.

[metacast]

By Hel somebody had to do it, since the Christians seem intent on preaching in every other "Ask A...." thread, they must be too busy to start their own.

So here it is, I've done all the work for you. Just don't ask ME to answer any questions.

First Question:

Why are there so many different branches of Christianity?

beacause there are different interpretations of scripture.

Humanity is stubborn and their constructs seem to play seperatist by nature.

"Why was God so...vengeful in the old testiment? I suppose that would be the word to use. "

As confused christian i will say that I have not read the whole bible and do not know the story well enough to judge. My christianity stems from the new testiment gospels and the sermon on the mount, select parts of the old testiment, and the gnostic gospels, texts of all kinds, from religions to novels, personal studies of the human condition, subjective reality, and belief in a good god who relates himself to me as the father because unlike the mother who in which my soul grows, i recieve indirect love from him who is my direction of growth, as he makes life possible and speaks to me through it, and my heart of heart, who's lord is jesus christ, or the archetype his existance imprinted into the collective unconscious of humanity.

Edited February 7, 2007 by ADbox

[Jodie.Lynne]

Why is it that christians, moreso than any other religion except islam, seem so dead set that they are right, and all others wrong?

I mean, I know your bible tells you so, but do you not think that other beleivers of other faiths have the same "proof" as yourselves?

With the exception of scientology, ALL religions claim to be the voice of god ( or gods, as the case may be).

[metacast]

Why is it that christians, moreso than any other religion except islam, seem so dead set that they are right, and all others wrong?

I mean, I know your bible tells you so, but do you not think that other beleivers of other faiths have the same "proof" as yourselves?

With the exception of scientology, ALL religions claim to be the voice of god ( or gods, as the case may be).

i dont believe all others are wrong. i believe there are many roads that lead to the same path and the pioneers that pointed the way over the years do not make such a claim. jesus is one the most quoted prophets in the islamic holy book. muhammad went to naserith(sp) to pray at the home town of the christ.

it really depends on which faith you are talking about.

and any religion that claims to have the voice of the one true good god must then share a common trait. the same god, and its human nature and ignorance that is the source of the seperation.

if you ask me though, i believe that there is a good possibility that all docterines have been perverted to an extent. maybe this is the work of satan, or satan archetypes of humans.

[dlv]

Why was God so...vengeful in the old testiment? I suppose that would be the word to use.

As a former Christian..., it would be blasphemous of me to presume God's infinite Thoughts. One simply accepts, unconditionally, lovingly.

[metacast]

As a former Christian..., it would be blasphemous of me to presume God's infinite Thoughts. One simply accepts, unconditionally, lovingly.

second. as an aspiring and failing yet not failing christian.

[dlv]

Why is it that christians, moreso than any other religion except islam, seem so dead set that they are right, and all others wrong?

If one believes that Jesus Christ is THE redeemer, equals to God and all, then one must hold fast to this belief, until the end of time. One shouldn't stray from this road, for it is the only righteous way for the modern world, during and after Jesus died on the cross. It should not be understood as a hostile intent, to force pagan people into it. It is a very private situation. Many Christians evangelize just to spread this "good" news to the world. Think about it: a God died for the weight of our sins -- free at last! (...if you accept that Jesus is God or equal to God who died for the sins of the world)

Edited February 7, 2007 by dlv

[IamsSon]

Do any of you believe that somebody who has lived their life full of sin could repent on their deathbed for fear of going to hell, and still go to heaven?

Not for fear of going to hell, but from finally realizing what was important and what was true, yes. My parents, brothers, sister and I all accepted Christ within days of each other, but the rest of our family were not saved. My Dad's father, my grandfather was a hard man. He was a functional alcoholic and incredibly bright but uncaring. When he was in his death bed he asked my father to tell him what it was he believed and why. My father told him why he had come to Christ and what it had meant to him. My grandfather told my dad that he had been watching him and his family (us) since we had become saved. My grandfather said he had noticed that our family was different from the families of his other kids, and that he wanted what we had. My grandfather accepted Christ as his savior three days before he died. I expect to see him again some day.

Also Matt 20:1-16 seems to say that yes, as far as God is concerned He loves everyone and if you wait until the last minute to accept His sacrifice, He will still welcome you with open arms.

The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard

1"For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire men to work in his vineyard. 2He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard.

3"About the third hour he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4He told them, 'You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.' 5So they went.

"He went out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour and did the same thing. 6About the eleventh hour he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, 'Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?'

7" 'Because no one has hired us,' they answered.

"He said to them, 'You also go and work in my vineyard.'

8"When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, 'Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.'

9"The workers who were hired about the eleventh hour came and each received a denarius. 10So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12'These men who were hired last worked only one hour,' they said, 'and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.'

13"But he answered one of them, 'Friend, I am not being unfair to you. Didn't you agree to work for a denarius? 14Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15Don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?'

16"So the last will be first, and the first will be last."

Why was God so...vengeful in the old testiment? I suppose that would be the word to use.

I ask this because I read in one of the books that David was to take a census without accepting gifts from the people, but he did anyway; and God ordered them dead. I could have the wording wrong, but please feel free to correct me if im wrong.

I believe that the Bible is in part intended to show people that it doesn't matter how visible God makes Himself (walking with Adam and Eve in the Garden), or how awesome and powerful (the rest of the Old Testament) or how personable and immediate (His life and death as a human, Jesus), or how intimate and personal (as the Holy Spirit living in each believer), there will be those who choose not to follow. So, His actions in the whole Bible, Old or New Testament are intended to show that He is allowing each of us to choose and that He loves us so much He will do anything to reach each of us, if we want it.

Why is it that christians, moreso than any other religion except islam, seem so dead set that they are right, and all others wrong?

I mean, I know your bible tells you so, but do you not think that other beleivers of other faiths have the same "proof" as yourselves?

With the exception of scientology, ALL religions claim to be the voice of god ( or gods, as the case may be).

If you knew that I was about to drink poison because you had also been about to drink it before someone showed you it was poison, and I was looking forward to taking a swig because I thought I was about to drink wine, would you knock it out of my hand or would you let me enjoy my wine?

[dlv]

...there will be those who choose not to follow. So, His actions in the whole Bible, Old or New Testament are intended to show that He is allowing each of us to choose and that He loves us so much He will do anything to reach each of us, if we want it.

But this doesn't answer the question: "Why was God so...vengeful in the old testiment?" Free will has nothing to do with God's vengeance (relatively speaking), and He will destroy us because "He loves us so much He will do anything to reach each of us, if we want"? Again, we are talking about God's vengeance, not His unconditional love for humanity.

Edited February 7, 2007 by dlv

[dlv]

Not for fear of going to hell, but from finally realizing what was important and what was true, yes. My parents, brothers, sister and I all accepted Christ within days of each other, but the rest of our family were not saved. My Dad's father, my grandfather was a hard man. He was a functional alcoholic and incredibly bright but uncaring. When he was in his death bed he asked my father to tell him what it was he believed and why. My father told him why he had come to Christ and what it had meant to him. My grandfather told my dad that he had been watching him and his family (us) since we had become saved. My grandfather said he had noticed that our family was different from the families of his other kids, and that he wanted what we had. My grandfather accepted Christ as his savior three days before he died. I expect to see him again some day.

Amen, thank you for sharing. Brings tears to my eyes.

[texasgirlheather]

But this doesn't answer the question: "Why was God so...vengeful in the old testiment?" Free will has nothing to do with God's vengeance (relatively speaking), and He will destroy us because "He loves us so much He will do anything to reach each of us, if we want"? Again, we are talking about God's vengeance, not His unconditional love for humanity.

God was so noticeably vengeful in the OT because He'd had it with humans thumbing their nose at Him, and like the parent that He is, it was time to practice some proactive tough love. We continued to disobey Him in shocking and horrific ways, and vengeance was always a last resort. People groups, cultures, cities, families, whatever was incurring His wrath... um, incurred His wrath, meaning they brought it on themselves, He didn't whip it up out of thin air just for sh**s and giggles. Pardon my french even I am known to be dirty once in a while. Whatever entity was on the receiving end of His "vengefulness," was warned REPEATEDLY to quit their abominable behavior, and all simply kept on. God will tolerate your unrepentant sinfulness for so long while trying to get your attention. At a certain point, come the consequences. And souls that continue in arrogance and abomination will be on the receiving end of His judgement. And... will not like it very much.

The difference (or one of the differences) between OT and NT is that in OT people had to manually try to atone for their sins with precise mathematical equations relating to how many calves and bushels of best wheat to sacrifice, also by following strict laws, and they rarely did. If they did, it was very easy for following laws to become something they did by rote and it had no meaning, and when it had no meaning, it did not provide any personal communication between them and God. (By the way, there are still people today who try to pantomime a Christian life, but their actions are empty and dead and do not get them into any kind of meaningful dialogue with God about the conditions of their hearts.) When Jesus came, He took the place of the calves and grain and the laws and became the sacrifice. God never stopped being vengeful to sinful behavior, opposition to our sinful behavior is the method He employs to get our attention. The TONE changed between OT and NT because the message was being put across that in His love, He made salvation easier. His requirement of repentance for sin NEVER CHANGED, that is a common misconception. The OT expresses His frustration with us, the NT expresses how He wants to bridge the gap that we create by frustrating Him.

This is an oversimplified answer, of course. However, I hope it is helpful, it is a very confusing thing, and it was an excellent question that you asked. I'm no scholar but I'm willing to share my understanding with you. Peace.

IamsSon you write so beautifully. I enjoy reading your posts very very much.

Edited February 7, 2007 by texasgirlheather

[EmpressStarXVII]

Thank you Texasgirlheather. That was the answer I was looking for. It still just confuses me though. God took vengence on disbelievers because they did not worship him. So he in one way or other punishes them. I just find Respect from fear a bad way of going about things. Why not let them disbelieve and let them suffer their fate in the afterlife?

But with the story that I spoke of (and if anybody can please point out which book that came from, I'd be so greatful!) God took out his vengence on innocent people who gave gifts to David during a census. So ultimately, this is what I gather, God showed David "This is what happens when you do not do as I say." Is it worth 75,000 lives (which I think was the number) to burden on David's shoulders all because he disobeyed god?

[dlv]

God was so noticeably vengeful in the OT because He'd had it with humans thumbing their nose at Him, and like the parent that He is, it was time to practice some proactive tough love. We continued to disobey Him in shocking and horrific ways, and vengeance was always a last resort. People groups, cultures, cities, families, whatever was incurring His wrath... um, incurred His wrath, meaning they brought it on themselves, He didn't whip it up out of thin air just for sh**s and giggles. Pardon my french even I am known to be dirty once in a while. Whatever entity was on the receiving end of His "vengefulness," was warned REPEATEDLY to quit their abominable behavior, and all simply kept on. God will tolerate your unrepentant sinfulness for so long while trying to get your attention. At a certain point, come the consequences. And souls that continue in arrogance and abomination will be on the receiving end of His judgement. And... will not like it very much.

The difference (or one of the differences) between OT and NT is that in OT people had to manually try to atone for their sins with precise mathematical equations relating to how many calves and bushels of best wheat to sacrifice, also by following strict laws, and they rarely did. If they did, it was very easy for following laws to become something they did by rote and it had no meaning, and when it had no meaning, it did not provide any personal communication between them and God. (By the way, there are still people today who try to pantomime a Christian life, but their actions are empty and dead and do not get them into any kind of meaningful dialogue with God about the conditions of their hearts.) When Jesus came, He took the place of the calves and grain and the laws and became the sacrifice. God never stopped being vengeful to sinful behavior, opposition to our sinful behavior is the method He employs to get our attention. The TONE changed between OT and NT because the message was being put across that in His love, He made salvation easier. His requirement of repentance for sin NEVER CHANGED, that is a common misconception. The OT expresses His frustration with us, the NT expresses how He wants to bridge the gap that we create by frustrating Him.

This is an oversimplified answer, of course. However, I hope it is helpful, it is a very confusing thing, and it was an excellent question that you asked. I'm no scholar but I'm willing to share my understanding with you. Peace.

So you're saying that God was fed up, He lost His infinite patience??? You could be right, but I doubt it. I respect your post, but I also believe that it is beyond our human mind to know His Divine Thoughts. And archaic people (scholars and writers of the Holy Book) couldn't fathom the multi-layered reasonings (but they had to write something down for the ancient masses to follow, obey, fear, and so on, to basically behave properly, justly, accordingly to the rules of the land and property). Again, I believe God's Reasonings are beyond us -- this is merely my philosophy, not written-in-stone.

It could also be that the word "vengeance" is so human-based, not fit to describe God's Actions??? Language is so imperfect to describe anything so profound.

Peace to you also.

Edited February 7, 2007 by dlv

[texasgirlheather]

Thank you Texasgirlheather. That was the answer I was looking for. It still just confuses me though. God took vengence on disbelievers because they did not worship him. So he in one way or other punishes them. I just find Respect from fear a bad way of going about things. Why not let them disbelieve and let them suffer their fate in the afterlife?

But with the story that I spoke of (and if anybody can please point out which book that came from, I'd be so greatful!) God took out his vengence on innocent people who gave gifts to David during a census. So ultimately, this is what I gather, God showed David "This is what happens when you do not do as I say." Is it worth 75,000 lives (which I think was the number) to burden on David's shoulders all because he disobeyed god?

Yes ma'am, glad to be talking to you.

It does confound human nature to be knocked out its egocentric orbit. I struggled with this for several years as a new Christian. All through my childhood I was told that whatever I thought was ok, was ok, whatever I decided was right for me, was right. This built me up in my own mind, to where I thought I was the ultimate authority and decision-maker. Imagine the first generation of mankind being born as obedient children with a whole, unbroken relationship with their Creator. Then imagine each of countless subsequent generations having their thinking perverted until, we can't even imagine why we should be disciplined when we get out of line. It is a shocking concept to the human mind, and one that is immediately rejected. But that's the whole thing in a nutshell. We are His children, and we should be put in check when we do wrong. Believe me, my kids are wholly offended by the notion of discipline, and they are outraged when I take their "good" stuff away from them and limit their freedoms when their actions cross the boundaries I have drawn. God is our parent on a magnificent scale, and He does not enjoy punishing us, but there's stuff He's just not going to let us get away with. It wobbles the brain and forces you to put your whole universe into a different order. It's a hard pill to swallow.

Well, I like talking to you and would like to say thanks for asking a truly curious, non-biased question without sarcasm. You weren't trying to lure me into a boxing match and I appreciate that. I'm not ignoring the last part of your question, the census thing, I will look up more about it tomorrow (my day off) and continue this then. What you mention rings a bell with me and I want to refresh my memory.

And I hope you don't mind, that I have a habit of being very blunt, I don't mean anything to sound depricating or unsulting. When I say human nature, and egocentric and stuff like that, I am most definitely including myself and not just talking about YOU or THEM or anything like that.

Nite-Nite time for me, it is almost the witching hour here

Peace.

[texasgirlheather]

Ooh, one last thought tidbit: I believe when God is punishing us, He is not doing it for pleasure but actually trying to push us out of the wrong direction and into the right one so we could fully enjoy the benefits of being in His will. He's trying to drive us over to where the better "stuff" is, the blessings that He has in mind for each of us. When we stray from the path He provides for us, we may still experience blessings, but He had better ones in mind for us if we had just done what we were supposed to do instead of being rebellious.

[dlv]

He's trying to drive us over to where the better "stuff" is, the blessings that He has in mind for each of us. When we stray from the path He provides for us, we may still experience blessings, but He had better ones in mind for us if we had just done what we were supposed to do instead of being rebellious.

There is no doubt in my mind that God is at the heart of the law of consequences (to free us, make us better human beings) since everything is created by God.

Sweet dreams.

[texasgirlheather]

So you're saying that God was fed up, He lost His infinite patience??? You could be right, but I doubt it. I respect your post, but I also believe that it is beyond our human mind to know His Divine Thoughts. And archaic people (scholars and writers of the Holy Book) couldn't fathom the multi-layered reasonings (but they had to write something down for the ancient masses to follow, obey, fear, and so on, to basically behave properly, justly, accordingly to the rules of the land and property). Again, I believe God's Reasonings are beyond us -- this is merely my philosophy, not written-in-stone.

It could also be that the word "vengeance" is so human-based, not fit to describe God's Actions??? Language is so imperfect to describe anything so profound.

Peace to you also.

I don't mean fed-up, like a three-year-old in the grocery store who needs a nap, more like He gave us boundaries and when we crossed them He issued consequences to steer us right. I don't mean He had a temper tantrum, that implies He lost control and pitched a fit. I do believe He has emotions because we are made in His image and we have emotions. I believe He does NOT lose control of Himself. I believe He is disgusted by sin and cannot lay His eyes on it. I believe He got fed-up as in simply wouldn't tolerate it any more.Without a doubt, He is so complex in His wisdom I will never fully understand it; you're right. I can only use simple explanations that I understand. Like I do with my own kids, I make it simple for them to understand. They don't know how to apply context to different situations, there are just too many complexities for them. So to make it easy on them, I promise them that if they obey me, they will not suffer any more downfalls than life has to offer. But because they question me, they experience pitfalls that they don't have to experience.

I'm certainly not trying to speak for God, He is so much wiser than I'll ever be. And I am forced to use simple terms to explain His intentions toward us. I can't put into words His complexity. But I can share what I know He has promised me.

Edited February 7, 2007 by texasgirlheather

[KGS3333]

There are many denominations of Christianity because no one ever has exactly the same views as anyone else. The Bible is no different. Originally there was only one church, the Catholic Church, and they set themselves up as the earthly institution by which God speaks. Then came the protestants, who branched off from the Catholic faith. The protestants had a firm focus on personal interpretation of scripture, whereas once it was a matter of what the Church said was so.

Within the Protestant faith/s, there came to be certain facets of the belief that can be considered "essential" beliefs. These are the beliefs that Christianity cannot exist without, the beliefs essential for salvation. Then there are the non-essential beliefs, that deal with the works we do. This is where the many denominations come into things. When people disagree with a certain doctrine, sometimes a new denomination will sprout up that espouses that particular tenent of faith.

The Bible isn't always black-and-white. There are often grey areas. However, it's the nature of organizations to put things into black-and-white. All organizations (secular as well as religious) have rules, bylaws, a club charter if you will. Christian denominations call their club charter "doctrines". Without such doctrines, no one really knows what the denomination believes, and so they have to be set in stone. And so grey areas are no longer grey, but black or white.

Another reason is that sometimes a denomination develops a tradition that becomes so entrenched that people start thinking it is essential. Then when someone says it's not, there is an inevitable split, which produces a new denomination.

In general, most Chrsitians wouldn't consider themselves "Anglican" or "Presbyterian" or whatever denomination they attend a service at, they'd just say "I'm Christian". This reflects the idea of personal interpretation that was suggested by the original reformers, and still rings true today. Even when Chrsitians disagree on minor points, the essential beliefs are still largely similar.

Of course, exactly what is an "essential belief" is another post I'll make later (unless another Christian answers first), because I've got to head off now. Busy day, yay......

Regards, PA

You're leaving out the Anabaptists. The Anabaptists came about because they recognized that the Protestants weren't all that much better than the Catholics. The Anabaptists were persecuted by both the Catholic Church and the Lutherans and Calvinists. They were forced scatter into eastern Europe and the Americas. Eventually, they were persecuted out of eastern Europe and have mostly settled in North American where they have had the fortune so far of living free from persecution, although the way of life of the more conservative of the Anabaptists has been under constant attack from secular humanists and some "liberal" Christians who resent their strict adherence to the teaching of the New Testament.

KGS

[dlv]

Without a doubt, He is so complex in His wisdom I will never fully understand it; you're right. I can only use simple explanations that I understand. Like I do with my own kids, I make it simple for them to understand. They don't know how to apply context to different situations, there are just too many complexities for them. So to make it easy on them, I promise them that if they obey me, they will not suffer any more downfalls than life has to offer. But because they question me, they experience pitfalls that they don't have to experience.

I'm certainly not trying to speak for God, He is so much wiser than I'll ever be. And I am forced to use simple terms to explain His intentions toward us. I can't put into words His complexity. But I can share what I know He has promised me.

God, I'm sure, knows your good intentions. May your children grow up happy with God, always.