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Is Israel an Apartheid state?


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#301    Antilles

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 05:31 AM

View PostGlorfindel, on 26 June 2013 - 01:21 AM, said:

Yeah, the difference is I don't use religious nonsense to justify GENOCIDE. I am not politically correct bud, I have no sympathy for Muslims or Jews preaching their bull****, and then using it to justify their ass-backwards behaviour. Why are we still giving Israel money when our countries are facing economic meltdown, partially because of Israel to begin with? You and the people that keep supporting this crap need to knock it off with biblical fairytales and GROW UP. Tell me, whats gonna happen to Israel is the long run if the west gets sick of this and decides to cut all economic and military support, just a theoretical question. Maybe they should start behaving now before its too late, because as soon as all these ancient Republicans die of old age, the next generation of atheistic libs might not care so much about a racist/religious state's survival.

Then again, you might think Jesus will return by then :innocent:

So which Muslim group do you support, Sunnis or the Shiites? They're well known for their balanced behaviour (cough GENOCIDE) in the name of religion.


#302    Br Cornelius

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 09:13 AM

View PostAntilles, on 26 June 2013 - 05:31 AM, said:

So which Muslim group do you support, Sunnis or the Shiites? They're well known for their balanced behaviour (cough GENOCIDE) in the name of religion.
This is not about the internal struggles of Islam so stop trying to divert the subject away from the point under discussion, which is Israel the genocidal apartheid state.

Israel doesn't become the good guy because some Islamic factions are worse.

Br Cornelius

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#303    Antilles

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 11:13 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 26 June 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

This is not about the internal struggles of Islam so stop trying to divert the subject away from the point under discussion, which is Israel the genocidal apartheid state.

Israel doesn't become the good guy because some Islamic factions are worse.

Br Cornelius

Oh please. Not a good rebuttal argument.


#304    Br Cornelius

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 11:50 AM

View PostAntilles, on 26 June 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

Oh please. Not a good rebuttal argument.
When you stop attempting diversion tactics you might get a reply to you relevant point.
Until then I will satisfy myself in pointing out your tactics.

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#305    and then

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 12:41 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 26 June 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

When you stop attempting diversion tactics you might get a reply to you relevant point.
Until then I will satisfy myself in pointing out your tactics.

Br Cornelius
I take this to be a discussion about the survival of a distinct people.  Neither the Arabs nor the Persians, for example, have ever been faced with annihilation.  Neither have ever had to survive a single war of attempted annihilation.  Israel has fought several corporately and Jews have had to fight them on a personal level for a couple of millennia.  I find it interesting that the emphasis always skews back to the sins of one group and not both.  The irony of this failed argument about separate and unequal is that for Israel to try to actually maintain a democracy where the state also had an essentially Jewish character( their right) they WOULD have to become an apartheid entity.  Especially if "right of return" ever became a reality.

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  for what could be, the darkest age...

#306    Antilles

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 12:57 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 26 June 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

When you stop attempting diversion tactics you might get a reply to you relevant point.
Until then I will satisfy myself in pointing out your tactics.

Br Cornelius

And you were elected as the relevance policeman when?

Buddy, still a losing rebuttal argument.


#307    Antilles

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 01:01 PM

View Postand then, on 26 June 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

I take this to be a discussion about the survival of a distinct people.  Neither the Arabs nor the Persians, for example, have ever been faced with annihilation.  Neither have ever had to survive a single war of attempted annihilation.  Israel has fought several corporately and Jews have had to fight them on a personal level for a couple of millennia.  I find it interesting that the emphasis always skews back to the sins of one group and not both.  The irony of this failed argument about separate and unequal is that for Israel to try to actually maintain a democracy where the state also had an essentially Jewish character( their right) they WOULD have to become an apartheid entity.  Especially if "right of return" ever became a reality.

And then, the only way some posters here want to view Israel is non-existent. They have no right to their homeland. Let them go and wander in the desert again for another 40 years.

The Palestinians have proved themselves time and again to be reliable and steadfast in government, committed to a lasting peace and promoting Arab Israeli links.

Yeah, right.


#308    Br Cornelius

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 05:27 PM

View PostAntilles, on 26 June 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

And you were elected as the relevance policeman when?

Buddy, still a losing rebuttal argument.
Remember that adage "two wrongs don't make a right". My point is common knowledge - yours is just a p*** poor argument for an apartheid state.

Br Cornelius

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#309    GoSC

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 07:53 PM

View PostAntilles, on 26 June 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

And then, the only way some posters here want to view Israel is non-existent. They have no right to their homeland. Let them go and wander in the desert again for another 40 years.

The Palestinians have proved themselves time and again to be reliable and steadfast in government, committed to a lasting peace and promoting Arab Israeli links.

Yeah, right.

394 Palestinian cities, towns, and villages were destroyed. 750,000 Palestinians became refugees.

From a biblical argument, bull.

Furthermore, the promises of the land of Canaan to Abraham and Moses were fulfilled literally in the conquest under Joshua and reached its fruition upon the Davidic Kingdom.

Those promises were conditioned on obedience to God's law and were invalidated when that law was broken and the people sent into exile.

The New Testament stressing that promises to Abraham included all nations, not only the Jews, inteprets these promises in terms of a spiritual redemption from  captivity to sin, a redemption available to Gentiles as well as to Jews.

To link salvation with the destruction of another people's ancestral home is blasphemous. God is just.

And here is an excellent quote regarding the Balfour Declaration and its often misinterpretations:

"Great Britain had no sovereign rights over Palestine; it had no proprietary interest; it had no authority to dispose of the land. The Declaration was merely a statement of British intentions and no more." Sol Linowitz, American diplomat

Also, Zionists had no legal claim to Palestine because the UN Partition Plan violated Article 1 of the UN charter. That is the Article that sets forth the principle of self-determination for all peoples on Earth, including the 70% of the Palestinians who then owned 94% of the land.

The Resolution was not binding since it was not passed by the Security Council but by the General Assembly, which can only recommmend rather than legistate.

The Resolution, like the Balfour Declaration, was a product of great power machinations, orchestrated by the United States, rather than the result of political idealism.

So, in other words, both the Partition Plan and the Balfour Declaration is a steaming crock of ****.

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#310    Frank Merton

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 08:09 PM

At this point in history, regardless of what happened in the past, Israel is a legal sovereign state entitled to do  whatever is reasonably necessary to protect itself.  From time to time this requires espionage and other unpopular acts to pro-actively disarm those who have made their intention to destroy the country perfectly clear.  While we all may from time to time disagree with a specific act of any given country, it seems to me that Israel is subject to far more of  this sort of thing than most other countries, and I have to conclude that it largely stems from rather ugly remnants of  anti-Semitism.


#311    GoSC

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 05:49 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 18 August 2013 - 08:09 PM, said:

At this point in history, regardless of what happened in the past, Israel is a legal sovereign state entitled to do  whatever is reasonably necessary to protect itself.  From time to time this requires espionage and other unpopular acts to pro-actively disarm those who have made their intention to destroy the country perfectly clear.  While we all may from time to time disagree with a specific act of any given country, it seems to me that Israel is subject to far more of  this sort of thing than most other countries, and I have to conclude that it largely stems from rather ugly remnants of  anti-Semitism.

What you just said is complete bull, because the Palestinians have been denied all their rights. People like you treat them as an invisible people even though at the time of the UN Partition Plan was introduced, they made up 70% of the population and owned 94% of the land.

Jews weren't interested in the Holy Land for hundreds of years because of the lack of opportunities in Palestine and financial advancement lie elsewhere such as Europe, Asia, and elsewhere.

This isn't anti-semitism.

And Christian Zionists are using the Bible as an instrument of oppression rather than an instrument of liberation.

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#312    Frank Merton

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 06:33 PM

When someone starts out with "what you said is complete bull", is there any need for me to read further when I know what is coming?  An "I must disagree" would get you read.


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Posted 22 August 2013 - 02:53 AM

View PostB Jenkins, on 21 August 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

What you just said is complete bull, because the Palestinians have been denied all their rights. People like you treat them as an invisible people even though at the time of the UN Partition Plan was introduced, they made up 70% of the population and owned 94% of the land.

Jews weren't interested in the Holy Land for hundreds of years because of the lack of opportunities in Palestine and financial advancement lie elsewhere such as Europe, Asia, and elsewhere.

This isn't anti-semitism.

And Christian Zionists are using the Bible as an instrument of oppression rather than an instrument of liberation.
And when the world body decided to allow a state on that land they were righteously p***ed - just as all others who've lost out in such agreements.  They said NO.  They're STILL saying NO.  But Israel is inconveniently surviving and prospering.  The Palis are locked in an all or nothing struggle and since they'll never get it all....

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#314    Zaphod222

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 02:59 AM

View PostB Jenkins, on 21 August 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

What you just said is complete bull, because the Palestinians have been denied all their rights. People like you treat them as an invisible people even though at the time of the UN Partition Plan was introduced, they made up 70% of the population and owned 94% of the land.

Jews weren't interested in the Holy Land for hundreds of years because of the lack of opportunities in Palestine and financial advancement lie elsewhere such as Europe, Asia, and elsewhere.

This isn't anti-semitism.

And Christian Zionists are using the Bible as an instrument of oppression rather than an instrument of liberation.

I don´t even know where to start dissecting this pile nonsenical and bigotted claims.  Every single one of your statements is factually wrong.

All I can suggest is that you look beyond islamist and leftist conspiracy sites and read some objective history.

Fact is, the attempt to label Israel as an "apartheid state" is absurd, especially when it comes from islamists, considering that by definition every islamic country is an apartheid state. That these apartheid states accuse Israel of being one is the height of hypocrisy.

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." (Salman Rushdie)

#315    and then

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 03:02 AM

View PostB Jenkins, on 18 August 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

394 Palestinian cities, towns, and villages were destroyed. 750,000 Palestinians became refugees.

From a biblical argument, bull.

Furthermore, the promises of the land of Canaan to Abraham and Moses were fulfilled literally in the conquest under Joshua and reached its fruition upon the Davidic Kingdom.

Those promises were conditioned on obedience to God's law and were invalidated when that law was broken and the people sent into exile.

The New Testament stressing that promises to Abraham included all nations, not only the Jews, inteprets these promises in terms of a spiritual redemption from  captivity to sin, a redemption available to Gentiles as well as to Jews.

To link salvation with the destruction of another people's ancestral home is blasphemous. God is just.

And here is an excellent quote regarding the Balfour Declaration and its often misinterpretations:

"Great Britain had no sovereign rights over Palestine; it had no proprietary interest; it had no authority to dispose of the land. The Declaration was merely a statement of British intentions and no more." Sol Linowitz, American diplomat

Also, Zionists had no legal claim to Palestine because the UN Partition Plan violated Article 1 of the UN charter. That is the Article that sets forth the principle of self-determination for all peoples on Earth, including the 70% of the Palestinians who then owned 94% of the land.

The Resolution was not binding since it was not passed by the Security Council but by the General Assembly, which can only recommmend rather than legistate.

The Resolution, like the Balfour Declaration, was a product of great power machinations, orchestrated by the United States, rather than the result of political idealism.

So, in other words, both the Partition Plan and the Balfour Declaration is a steaming crock of ****.
Yet the Zionists are there.  Nearly 70 years now.  At what point do you think it would make sense to accept them as neighbors and try to live in peace and create some prosperity for everyone?  This is a rhetorical exercise, of course.  Rational people accept a fait accompli and make the best of it.  Muslims can NEVER do this when the situation leaves Jews in a winning position.  My guess is that at some point not too distant now the Palestinians are going to be routed from what part of the land they still possess.  And it will be due to their intransigence.  When people harm themselves through anger and spite they have only themselves to blame.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...




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