25 replies to this topic

[Kafkaesque]

http://rt.com/news/m...t-assembly-356/

"The Egyptian president has issued a constitutional declaration protecting Egypt's constitution-drafting assembly from dissolution, and replacing the prosecutor general. It also rules that none of the executive's decisions can be overturned.

Morsi gave the Constituent Assembly a two month deadline to finish drafting a new constitution, ruling that no authority may dissolve it until the country's defining document is completed.

He further ruled that no authority may dissolve the Shura Council, the upper house of Egypt's parliament.

In a move likely to bring criticism that the Egyptian president is inappropriately expanding his powers, he also decreed that no laws or declarations passed by the president from the time of his inauguration until a new parliament is elected can be overturned by any authority, including the judiciary."

Until the new Constitution comes up, he's an authoritarian figure.

It's interesting this happens directly after Hilary Clinton visits Egypt.

[Raptor Witness]

Danger Egypt: Great Danger ...

06 February 2011 - Post 45

"If you do not protect your minorities, then you will be bound again by an even worse tyrant."

[pallidin]

Yeah, that could end up being a huge problem.

[and then]

It seems to be the only way the country accepts being governed.  I know that sounds cynical but look at history.  I actually feel badly for the young people who had to learn the hard way that real, positive change takes a lot more work than just marching in the streets for a few weeks.  Now they'd have to start over and I suspect that Morsi would NOT be so restrained as Mubarak was.  But there also is the catalyst now that some change has been effected and who knows?  It just might keep changing for awhile - maybe into something better in time.

[meryt-tetisheri]

and then, on 23 November 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

It seems to be the only way the country accepts being governed.  I know that sounds cynical but look at history.  I actually feel badly for the young people who had to learn the hard way that real, positive change takes a lot more work than just marching in the streets for a few weeks.  Now they'd have to start over and I suspect that Morsi would NOT be so restrained as Mubarak was.  But there also is the catalyst now that some change has been effected and who knows?  It just might keep changing for awhile - maybe into something better in time.

Are you seriously suggesting that theocratic tyranny is the only way to govern Egypt?  In your opinion, is it better to enforce on a country a divisive constitution, chartered by the unqualified and rejected by all except minority MB and Salfais; a constitution which strips women, religious and ethnic minorities of their civil rights  and relegates them to a second class citizen status? Do you believe that instead of protesting dishonest and inefficient governance, it is better to cower in a corner and watch victims dropping, while parts of the country are given away to non-Egyptians? The powers usurped by Mursi far surpass those of any other ruler; he himself gets his marching orders from an unelected murshid who presides over an international secretive organization whose objective is the creation of a Caliphate with Jerusalem as its capital, Egypt becoming a ‘province’. Are you still wondering why Egyptians are ‘marching in the streets’ instead of quietly accepting their lot? Poverty has doubled, the economy is in tatters, the infrastructure is collapsing, the inefficiency of the government is unprecedented (officials are chosen on the basis of their loyalty & membership in the MB instead of their qualifications). In the meanwhile the president of Gaza shows more concern for Hamas than for Egypt.  The people are angry, and rightfully so.
Egyptians are aware of the role played by the American administration in backing up the MB, another example of its short term, half-baked foreign policy strategy. The creation of a Wahhabi state in Egypt will not calm the ME; it will only add a more explosive ticking time bomb into the mix.

[and then]

meryt-tetisheri, on 23 November 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

Are you seriously suggesting that theocratic tyranny is the only way to govern Egypt?  In your opinion, is it better to enforce on a country a divisive constitution, chartered by the unqualified and rejected by all except minority MB and Salfais; a constitution which strips women, religious and ethnic minorities of their civil rights  and relegates them to a second class citizen status? Do you believe that instead of protesting dishonest and inefficient governance, it is better to cower in a corner and watch victims dropping, while parts of the country are given away to non-Egyptians? The powers usurped by Mursi far surpass those of any other ruler; he himself gets his marching orders from an unelected murshid who presides over an international secretive organization whose objective is the creation of a Caliphate with Jerusalem as its capital, Egypt becoming a ‘province’. Are you still wondering why Egyptians are ‘marching in the streets’ instead of quietly accepting their lot? Poverty has doubled, the economy is in tatters, the infrastructure is collapsing, the inefficiency of the government is unprecedented (officials are chosen on the basis of their loyalty & membership in the MB instead of their qualifications). In the meanwhile the president of Gaza shows more concern for Hamas than for Egypt.  The people are angry, and rightfully so.
Egyptians are aware of the role played by the American administration in backing up the MB, another example of its short term, half-baked foreign policy strategy. The creation of a Wahhabi state in Egypt will not calm the ME; it will only add a more explosive ticking time bomb into the mix.

Meryt I am not at all saying that Egyptians should docilely accept this outrage.  If it sounded that way I apologize.  I was merely pointing out that the population heretofore HAS accepted one man rulership by a strongman.  I also was saying that those who began the protests were betrayed by the organized political structure of the MB.  Egypt is on the knife's edge now and which way things fall will depend entirely on the courage of her people.  I actually pray for them that they can escape the brutality that the MB will eventually bring upon them, IMO.

[meryt-tetisheri]

and then, on 23 November 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

Meryt I am not at all saying that Egyptians should docilely accept this outrage.  If it sounded that way I apologize.  I was merely pointing out that the population heretofore HAS accepted one man rulership by a strongman.  I also was saying that those who began the protests were betrayed by the organized political structure of the MB.  Egypt is on the knife's edge now and which way things fall will depend entirely on the courage of her people.  I actually pray for them that they can escape the brutality that the MB will eventually bring upon them, IMO.

I'm sorry for my terse response AT, I misunderstood you. January 25 was all about putting an end to the rule by a strongman, what followed is much worse! The betrayal did not only come from the MB alone, but also from Tantawy, Anan who from the very beginning chose an MB member to formulate the first referendum and turned a blind eye to election irregularities; and also from the American administration which backed and aided the MB. Every encroachment by the MB is preceded by a visit of Hillary Clinton; will you please keep her in Washington?

[and then]

meryt-tetisheri, on 23 November 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

I'm sorry for my terse response AT, I misunderstood you. January 25 was all about putting an end to the rule by a strongman, what followed is much worse! The betrayal did not only come from the MB alone, but also from Tantawy, Anan who from the very beginning chose an MB member to formulate the first referendum and turned a blind eye to election irregularities; and also from the American administration which backed and aided the MB. Every encroachment by the MB is preceded by a visit of Hillary Clinton; will you please keep her in Washington?

Do I have a choice?     You might recall I once asked you how likely you felt the possibility of a new Caliphate was?  Has your opinion changed to any degree?  Your rationale still seems sound to me but the picture is a bit murkier now.  The MB just seems  a great potential evil to me but maybe I over react.

[meryt-tetisheri]

and then, on 23 November 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:

Do I have a choice?     You might recall I once asked you how likely you felt the possibility of a new Caliphate was?  Has your opinion changed to any degree?  Your rationale still seems sound to me but the picture is a bit murkier now.  The MB just seems  a great potential evil to me but maybe I over react.

I still think the chances of a Caliphate are still not good, for one if the MB are incapable of governing one country, Egypt, governing a 'united arab state' is way beyond their capabilities. Their dictatorship, hypocrisy, and inefficiency have become obvious to the majority of Egyptians, and I am sure other Muslim populations are taking note, the masks have fallen and they have been exposed. Third, if Arabs have ever agreed to one thing, it is never to agree. The MB's dream of governing a Caliphate can best be described by an Arab proverb: "a mule's dream of flying like a bird"!

As for Clinton and American foreign policy, playing the role of a king-maker and adopting what is assumed to be a pragmatic strategy necessitates a prior thorough knowledge of the 'king' they are installing. Inflicting a disaster like the MB on 90 million people then proclaiming that they are 'perplexed' and 'shocked' by what follows like in the link below, leads one to conclude they are either gullible or extremely devious. In either case the US has lost a lot in the ME even among those who had a friendlier stance towards their policies. When Clinton's motorcade was bombarded with tomatoes she should have listened and paid more attention. She didn't. At the end this administration has helped abort Egypt's dream of a democratic just future and instead abetted a dictator worse than Mubarak.  
http://www.politico....z2Cf2aRXfzwhich

[and then]

meryt-tetisheri, on 23 November 2012 - 07:50 PM, said:

I still think the chances of a Caliphate are still not good, for one if the MB are incapable of governing one country, Egypt, governing a 'united arab state' is way beyond their capabilities. Their dictatorship, hypocrisy, and inefficiency have become obvious to the majority of Egyptians, and I am sure other Muslim populations are taking note, the masks have fallen and they have been exposed. Third, if Arabs have ever agreed to one thing, it is never to agree. The MB's dream of governing a Caliphate can best be described by an Arab proverb: "a mule's dream of flying like a bird"!

As for Clinton and American foreign policy, playing the role of a king-maker and adopting what is assumed to be a pragmatic strategy necessitates a prior thorough knowledge of the 'king' they are installing. Inflicting a disaster like the MB on 90 million people then proclaiming that they are 'perplexed' and 'shocked' by what follows like in the link below, leads one to conclude they are either gullible or extremely devious. In either case the US has lost a lot in the ME even among those who had a friendlier stance towards their policies. When Clinton's motorcade was bombarded with tomatoes she should have listened and paid more attention. She didn't. At the end this administration has helped abort Egypt's dream of a democratic just future and instead abetted a dictator worse than Mubarak.  
http://www.politico....z2Cf2aRXfzwhich

This statement is spot on.  I'm not sure which they are but I lean  toward devious.  It's frightening to think that they would be  so gullible with their foreign policy.  I just pray that they aren't setting the stage for a mule to fly.

[meryt-tetisheri]

and then, on 23 November 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:

This statement is spot on.  I'm not sure which they are but I lean  toward devious.  It's frightening to think that they would be  so gullible with their foreign policy.  I just pray that they aren't setting the stage for a mule to fly.

That mule can only dream, while his 'feathers' (hoofs) are being clipped on the streets of Cairo, Alexandria, Qzna...etc.
'Gullible' frightens you; 'devious' terrifies me! It brings to mind the (yet unconfirmed) news of Obama sending American troops to Sinai, and worse still the pic. below.  I sincerely hope this is just fear mongering or else peace in the ME will be as real as a desert mirage at noon!

[shaddow134]

Morsi must have struck a deal with the Military and for the US to turn a blind eye but still keep donating wads of cash.Could it be, he may become another Mubarak, who constantly
refereed between Hamas and Isreal.

The political dynamics of the ME always changing but still steeped in Tribal traditions,don't think i will see peace there in my life time.

[meryt-tetisheri]

shaddow134, on 24 November 2012 - 01:20 AM, said:

Morsi must have struck a deal with the Military and for the US to turn a blind eye but still keep donating wads of cash.Could it be, he may become another Mubarak, who constantly
refereed between Hamas and Isreal.

The political dynamics of the ME always changing but still steeped in Tribal traditions,don't think i will see peace there in my life time.

Check out Drayno's thread :
http://www.unexplain...5

I used to be a firm believer in the possibility of peace, but as long as 'perceptive' politicians are sawing the seeds of new conflicts....
seems I was too much of an idealist, naive!

[Raptor Witness]

Drayno, on 23 November 2012 - 05:37 AM, said:

It's interesting this happens directly after Hilary Clinton visits Egypt.

It's possible that promises were made, but it could also be the success at achieving a cease fire in Gaza.

I'm betting on the people of Egypt to bleed until they nullify this new Pharaoh’s declarations. They really want to be free, and they deserve it.

They don't need the United States feeding their army, because they don't need an army to be free.

Egypt's economy will skyrocket, if they will simply liberalize their treatment of minorities. It all hinges on that, not U.S. support.

To any investor who knows my forecasts, bet now on Egypt to rise. They will have special protection.

Edited by Raptor Witness, 26 November 2012 - 12:39 AM.

[Black Red Devil]

meryt-tetisheri, on 23 November 2012 - 07:50 PM, said:

I still think the chances of a Caliphate are still not good, for one if the MB are incapable of governing one country, Egypt, governing a 'united arab state' is way beyond their capabilities. Their dictatorship, hypocrisy, and inefficiency have become obvious to the majority of Egyptians, and I am sure other Muslim populations are taking note, the masks have fallen and they have been exposed. Third, if Arabs have ever agreed to one thing, it is never to agree. The MB's dream of governing a Caliphate can best be described by an Arab proverb: "a mule's dream of flying like a bird"!

As for Clinton and American foreign policy, playing the role of a king-maker and adopting what is assumed to be a pragmatic strategy necessitates a prior thorough knowledge of the 'king' they are installing. Inflicting a disaster like the MB on 90 million people then proclaiming that they are 'perplexed' and 'shocked' by what follows like in the link below, leads one to conclude they are either gullible or extremely devious. In either case the US has lost a lot in the ME even among those who had a friendlier stance towards their policies. When Clinton's motorcade was bombarded with tomatoes she should have listened and paid more attention. She didn't. At the end this administration has helped abort Egypt's dream of a democratic just future and instead abetted a dictator worse than Mubarak.  
http://www.politico....z2Cf2aRXfzwhich

I recall reading at the time that the majority of Egyptians, who were fighting to liberate the country from a dictator (Mubarak), were also fully aware and adamant they did not want to end up being ruled by Islamic fundamentalists.  They were also fully aware that Mubarak was pilfering from US aid which was meant for the countries welfare. Sounds like the same stage act with different actors.

Where have those Egyptians gone?