1360 replies to this topic

[Bavarian Raven]

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I just don't like how many people are blaming a teen for their own murder based only on racial bias. It's disgusting

and condemning a man and covering up a "teens" bad track record under a "racial bias" is any less bad?

[Myles]

Jeffertonturner, on 04 December 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

I just don't like how many people are blaming a teen for their own murder based only on racial bias. It's disgusting.

I see people blaming  Zimmerman based off of only racial bias.

[F3SS]

Lava_Lady, on 04 December 2012 - 06:14 AM, said:

And I guarantee you that Zimmerman wouldn't have gotten punched in the nose if he didn't try to be a bad-ass and accost a stranger.  Because that's what he did, he accosted someone without good reason.

If he had just waited for the police to come, none of this would be happening. The kid would still be alive, Zimmerman would not be a murderer and no one would be arguing.   Simple as that.

If that is hard to understand look at it from the kids point of view, you're walking, talking on the phone...  someone comes up to you aggressively asking you what you are doing here, who you are... he has his hand on something that looks like a weapon...  you have no idea who it is but you're scared and want to get the hell away from this man that is in your face!

What would you do?

Your entire last paragraph is an assumption. There is no evidence to suggest Z walked up to him ala Billy the Kid with his thumb on the holster strap and a gleam to kill in his eyes.

Lava_Lady, on 04 December 2012 - 06:43 AM, said:

Ok, lets assume no weapon.  Lets also assume that Trayvon WAS looking for trouble...heck, lets even assume Trayvon was high...AND wearing gang colors.

Now, should Zimmerman go up to him and take the law into his own hands?

He just called 911... Should he wait for the cops our just go accost a stranger?  

This stranger "looks" like a criminal.  But, the criminal is currently not committing a crime.  But Zimmerman did.

In accosting  Trayvon, he committed the crime of harassment.  If he touched Trayvon, it becomes assault.  If Trayvon had survived he could have pled self defense.

Why its a good idea to go up to a "dangerous" looking thug and start demanding to know why he's there?

He should have waited for the cops.

My assumption is Z was following him against 911's recommendation, NOT against their order, and didn't want to lose sight of him so he followed him and at some point the gangsta thug Trayvon wasn't gonna be disrespected like that and got all thuggish the only way he probably knew how to confront people and a fight ensued. He apparently beat the **** out of Z as new photo evidence suggests against earlier cries of fowl, as I also assume you would've been one of them crying fowl, due to lack of photographic evidence and while Z was getting his head bashed off of concrete while being repeatedly punched in the nose by a nonsensical show of gangsta superiority Z figured only one way to get out alive and he happened to have the solution to that problem. And what kind of "crime" is your version of harassment? Is it arrestable? I always thought harassment was more of a civil issue and not an arrestable one...

Lava_Lady, on 04 December 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:

Zimmerman DID call the cops.  the neighborhood watch captain it's just that a
neighborhood watch captain,
not a cop.

how did I made my assumptions look like facts?  e were you fooled into believing something?

The last paragraph of your first quoted post above. You said 'look at it from the kids point of view' as if it was known fact. You made no attempt to relay this info as an assumption.

[Lava_Lady]

-Mr_Fess-, on 04 December 2012 - 07:05 PM, said:

Your entire last paragraph is an assumption. There is no evidence to suggest Z walked up to him ala Billy the Kid with his thumb on the holster strap and a gleam to kill in his eyes.


My assumption is Z was following him against 911's recommendation, NOT against their order, and didn't want to lose sight of him so he followed him and at some point the gangsta thug Trayvon wasn't gonna be disrespected like that and got all thuggish the only way he probably knew how to confront people and a fight ensued. He apparently beat the **** out of Z as new photo evidence suggests against earlier cries of fowl, as I also assume you would've been one of them crying fowl, due to lack of photographic evidence and while Z was getting his head bashed off of concrete while being repeatedly punched in the nose by a nonsensical show of gangsta superiority Z figured only one way to get out alive and he happened to have the solution to that problem. And what kind of "crime" is your version of harassment? Is it arrestable? I always thought harassment was more of a civil issue and not an arrestable one...


The last paragraph of your first quoted post above. You said 'look at it from the kids point of view' as if it was known fact. You made no attempt to relay this info as an assumption.

Dude... you win.  I totally give up on you and everyone else on this topic.  It's not worth the headache.  Pat yourself on the back.

[F3SS]

Lava_Lady, on 04 December 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

Dude... you win.  I totally give up on you and everyone else on this topic.  It's not worth the headache.  Pat yourself on the back.

Thanks dudette. Next time don't storm a thread with assumptions that look like facts and it won't be so bad.

[Myles]

Lava_Lady, on 04 December 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

Dude... you win.  I totally give up on you and everyone else on this topic.  It's not worth the headache.  Pat yourself on the back.

If the debates give you a headache, perhaps message boards are not for you. I didn't see where anyone harrassed you.

[DieChecker]

Lava_Lady, on 04 December 2012 - 06:43 AM, said:

Now, should Zimmerman go up to him and take the law into his own hands?

There is no law against peacefully talking to someone.

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He just called 911... Should he wait for the cops our just go accost a stranger?  

Trayvon's girlfriends phone call said that Trayvon was being followed, not that Zimmerman was trying to run him down. Trayvon almost certainly turned around and Confronted Zimmerman. His girlfriend said over and over for him to just walk away.

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In accosting  Trayvon, he committed the crime of harassment.  If he touched Trayvon, it becomes assault.  If Trayvon had survived he could have pled self defense.

He certainly should have waited for the cops. That was his mistake. But it was not an illegal mistake.

Harassement...

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It is commonly understood as behaviour intended to disturb or upset, and it is characteristically repetitive. In the legal sense, it is intentional behaviour which is found threatening or disturbing.

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Stalking:
The unauthorized following and surveillance of an individual, to the extent that the person's privacy is unacceptably intruded upon, and the victim fears for their safety.

A case can be made for Stalking I guess, but again... Harassement, or stalking is not a valid reason to start an assault. The only case where this is applicable is if Trayvon feared for extreme bodily damage, or death. And there is no way to proove that was the case.

Jeffertonturner, on 04 December 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

I just don't like how many people are blaming a teen for their own murder based only on racial bias. It's disgusting.

I for one don't care if Trayvon was brown, white, blue or green. He has a past that indicates confrontation, and the witnesses put him on top beating Zimmerman. Regardless of what Zimmerman did Trayvon was far from an angel. He got killed for the same reason other teenagers get killed. Because it is not going to happen to them, they are immortal.

-Mr_Fess-, on 04 December 2012 - 07:05 PM, said:

My assumption is Z was following him against 911's recommendation, NOT against their order, and didn't want to lose sight of him so he followed him and at some point the gangsta thug Trayvon wasn't gonna be disrespected like that and got all thuggish the only way he probably knew how to confront people and a fight ensued. He apparently beat the **** out of Z as new photo evidence suggests against earlier cries of fowl, as I also assume you would've been one of them crying fowl, due to lack of photographic evidence and while Z was getting his head bashed off of concrete while being repeatedly punched in the nose by a nonsensical show of gangsta superiority Z figured only one way to get out alive and he happened to have the solution to that problem.

That is pretty close to my assumption too. I don' think it is racist or bias against teens. I think that the evidence supports this assumption and most other assumptions have little to no evidnence, only emotion and "what ifs".

[DieChecker]

Here is how Florida tells people online how to file an Order of Protection.
http://www.ehow.com/...es-florida.html

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Under Florida law, the term harassment includes any act of aggression or intimidation, or repeated unwanted contact. Florida law also recognizes that individuals can be harassed by anyone, including family members, coworkers and neighbors. If you are a victim of harassment by a neighbor in Florida, you can obtain an order of protection against your neighbor through a Petition for an Injunction for Protection Against Repeat Violence to stop the harassment.

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To be eligible to obtain an order of protection against your neighbor, your neighbor must have committed two or more acts of violence against you or a member of your family, such as a spouse or child, one of which occurred within the last six months. Additionally, the acts of violence do not need to be against the same family member and parents can obtain orders of protection on behalf of their minor children. Florida law defines a violent act as any act that includes assault, battery, stalking, kidnapping, sexual assault, false imprisonment or any other crime that causes a physical injury.

This is good too...
http://www.ehow.com/...sment-laws.html

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Harassment laws in Florida are clear, but the definition of harassment allows for some interpretation in each case. According to Florida criminal statute 784.048, harass means "to engage in a course of conduct directed at a specific person that causes substantial emotional distress in such person and serves no legitimate purpose." This is often done through stalking, assault, written threats, battery and threatening/extortion. Florida laws change constantly, so check with an attorney for legal advice if needed.

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Stalking occurs when a person willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person, which results in emotional stress on the victim.

I think it would be hard to proove that Zimmerman was following Martin "Maliciously". And he certainly did not do it repeatedly. So, I think Stalking will be a long shot.

Even if found guilty of harassment, what is Zimmerman going to get except probation? Harassment does not count as "Fear for your Life".

[Lava_Lady]

Myles, on 04 December 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

If the debates give you a headache, perhaps message boards are not for you. I didn't see where anyone harrassed you.

Thankls for your advice but, at no time did I say I was being harassed.

Edited by Lava_Lady, 04 December 2012 - 09:39 PM.

[Lava_Lady]

-Mr_Fess-, on 04 December 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

Thanks dudette. Next time don't storm a thread with assumptions that look like facts and it won't be so bad.

If you can, I can too.  Now, drop it.

[F3SS]

Lava_Lady, on 04 December 2012 - 09:39 PM, said:

If you can, I can too.  Now, drop it.

Drop what? Having a discussion about the op topic on a thread even at the risk of butting heads or not making friends? I don't think so. Welcome to the United States/US Politics forum! That's just how it goes. PS: I didn't storm the thread with assumptions practically passed off as eye witness testimony. When I make an assumption the intent is almost always stated or implied

[Lava_Lady]

-Mr_Fess-, on 04 December 2012 - 11:27 PM, said:

Drop what? Having a discussion about the op topic on a thread even at the risk of butting heads or not making friends? I don't think so. Welcome to the United States/US Politics forum! That's just how it goes. PS: I didn't storm the thread with assumptions practically passed off as eye witness testimony. When I make an assumption the intent is almost always stated or implied

Whatever you say... I'm done with you.

[Gummug]

-Mr_Fess-, on 04 December 2012 - 11:27 PM, said:

Drop what? Having a discussion about the op topic on a thread even at the risk of butting heads or not making friends? I don't think so. Welcome to the United States/US Politics forum! That's just how it goes. PS: I didn't storm the thread with assumptions practically passed off as eye witness testimony. When I make an assumption the intent is almost always stated or implied

I don't know that much about women, but I know the ladies will always have the last word, right or wrong! (Sure seems that way, anyhow...) I've had women tell me to drop it before, and usually I do to keep the peace, but to say that in a public forum seems a bit beyond the pale.

Edited by Gummug, 07 December 2012 - 05:44 AM.

[and then]

http://abcnews.go.co...18580970?page=2

Just an update from Sanford, Florida.  It seems the community is taking steps to come together and heal as Trayvon Martin's 18th birthday comes around.  There will be a hearing in April to see if dismissing the case based on self defense is justified, if it isn't then the trial is set for June.  The article implies that there can be only one acceptable judgment.  Gonna be a long, hot summer I think.

[Gummug]

I think they should throw the case out based on no fair trial being possible because of extreme prejudice stirred up by the media...then maybe that would teach the media just to report the news instead of being "shapers of opinion" (in other words, propagandists). Maybe that would teach them a lesson, but I doubt it (the media, I mean).