Jesus did not live....

[atrueoriginall]

JESUS DID NOT LIVE FOR 120 YEARS!

Jesus has lived for about 2,000 years, just like Enoch lived for 365 years, and Methuselah lived for 969 years, Abraham for 4,000 years and Moses 3,340 years.

Why is the body and location of its remains of such importance? Their "WORKS" and the “SPIRIT OF” should be the only importance; the rest is just curiosity. I should have said, “Jesus lived” instead of Jesus “has lived” for about 2,000 years because many of you are killing him or trying to anyway.

[twpdyp]

I am in total agreement with you atrueoriginall. AMEN

[Mad Manfred]

Damn, I thought there'd be pudding here! You Christians and your devilish tricks!

[beowulf]

Show contemporary secular evidence that Jesus ever lived.

[Hotoke]

The assertion that Jesus Christ is a myth can be proved not only through the works of dissenters and "pagans" who knew the truth - and who were viciously refuted or murdered for their battle against the Christian priests and "Church Fathers" fooling the masses with their fictions - but also through the very statements of the Christians themselves, who continuously disclose that they knew Jesus Christ was a myth founded upon more ancient deities located throughout the known ancient world. In fact, Pope Leo X, privy to the truth because of his high rank, made this curious declaration, "What profit has not that fable of Christ brought us!"

It is very telling that the earliest Christian documents, the Epistles attributed to "Paul," never discuss a historical background of Jesus but deal exclusively with a spiritual being who was known to all gnostic sects for hundreds to thousands of years. The few "historical" references to an actual life of Jesus cited in the Epistles are demonstrably interpolations and forgeries, as are, according to Wheless, the Epistles themselves, as they were not written by "Paul."17 Aside from the brief reference to Pontius Pilate at 1 Timothy 6:13, an epistle dated ben Yehoshua to 144 CE and thus not written by Paul, the Pauline literature (as pointed out by Edouard Dujardin) "does not refer to Pilate18, or the Romans, or Caiaphas, or the Sanhedrin, or Herod19, or Judas, or the holy women, or any person in the gospel account of the Passion, and that it also never makes any allusion to them; lastly, that it mentions absolutely none of the events of the Passion, either directly or by way of allusion."20 Dujardin additionally relates that other early "Christian" writings such as Revelation do not mention any historical details or drama.21 Mangasarian notes that Paul also never quotes from Jesus's purported sermons and speeches, parables and prayers, nor does he mention Jesus's supernatural birth or any of his alleged wonders and miracles, all which one would presume would be very important to his followers, had such exploits and sayings been known prior to "Paul

Turning to the gospels themselves, which were composed between 170-180 C.E.22a, their pretended authors, the apostles, give sparse histories and genealogies of Jesus that contradict each other and themselves in numerous places. The birthdate of Jesus is depicted as having taken place at different times. His birth and childhood are not mentioned in "Mark," and although he is claimed in "Matthew" and "Luke" to have been "born of a virgin," his lineage is traced to the House of David through Joseph, such that he may "fulfill prophecy."23 He is said in the first three (Synoptic) gospels to have taught for one year before he died, while in "John" the number is three years. "Matthew" relates that Jesus delivered "The Sermon on the Mount"24 before "the multitudes," while "Luke" says it was a private talk given only to the disciples. The accounts of his Passion and Resurrection differ utterly from each other, and no one states how old he was when he died.25 Wheless says, "The so-called 'canonical' books of the New Testament, as of the Old, are a mess of contradictions and confusions of text, to the present estimate of 150,000 and more 'variant readings,' as is well known and admitted."26 In addition, of the dozens of gospels, ones that were once considered canonical or genuine were later rejected as "apocryphal" or spurious, and vice versa. So much for the "infallible Word of God" and "infallible" Church! The confusion exists because the Christian plagiarists over the centuries were attempting to amalgamate and fuse practically every myth, fairytale, legend, doctrine or bit of wisdom they could pilfer from the innumerable different mystery religions and philosophies that existed at the time. In doing so, they forged, interpolated, mutilated, changed, and rewrote these texts for centuries.27

Basically, there are no non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any known historian of the time during and after Jesus's purported advent. Walker says, "No literate person of his own time mentioned him in any known writing." Eminent Hellenistic Jewish historian and philosopher Philo (20 B.C.E.-50 C.E.), alive at the purported time of Jesus, makes no mention of him. Nor do any of the some 40 other historians who wrote during the first one to two centuries of the Common Era. "Enough of the writings of [these] authors...remain to form a library. Yet in this mass of Jewish and Pagan literature, aside from two forged passages in the works of a Jewish author, and two disputed passages in the works of Roman writers, there is to be found no mention of Jesus Christ."28 Their silence is deafening testimony against the historicizers.

In the entire works of the Jewish historian Josephus, which constitute many volumes, there are only two paragraphs that purport to refer to Jesus. Although much has been made of these "references," they have been dismissed by all scholars and even by Christian apologists as forgeries, as have been those referring to John the Baptist and James, "brother" of Jesus. Bishop Warburton labeled the Josephus interpolation regarding Jesus as "a rank forgery, and a very stupid one, too."29 Wheless notes that, "The first mention ever made of this passage, and its text, are in the Church History of that 'very dishonest writer,' Bishop Eusebius, in the fourth century...CE [Catholic Encyclopedia] admits... the above cited passage was not known to Origen and the earlier patristic writers." Wheless, a lawyer, and Taylor, a minister, agree that it was Eusebius himself who forged the passage.

This is not my research. I am working on a book that totally debunks religion, and that is where i got this from, i cant remember the source

found it":Truth be known

it is a great site about the FAD we call christiantity

Edited December 9, 2004 by Hotoke

[Mad Manfred]

Nice post Hotoke...I agree. What rational and logically thinking person wouldn't?

Am I the only one whose cranky about the lack of pudding?

[beowulf]

Very good research and posting Hotoke - But don't confuse them with facts, they all ready have their minds made up!

[Mad Manfred]

sits back and waits for Insight and Stellar to start up*

[beowulf]

My money is on Ashley or Saucy showing up first!

[atrueoriginall]

Show contemporary secular evidence that Jesus ever lived. 

394488[/snapback]

Your answer is too simple easy. Because he still lives today.

Current day almanac figures

Christianity: 2 billion

Islam: 1.3 billion

Hinduism: 900 million

Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 850 million (THE MINORITY)

Buddhism: 360 million

Chinese traditional religion: 225 million

primal-indigenous: 150 million

African Traditional & Diasporic: 95 million

Sikhism: 23 million

Juche: 19 million

Spiritism: 14 million

Judaism: 14 million

Baha'i: 6 million

Jainism: 4 million

Shinto: 4 million

Cao Dai: 3 million

Tenrikyo: 2.4 million

Neo-Paganism: 1 million

Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand

Rastafarianism: 700 thousand

Scientology: 600 thousand

Zoroastrianism: 150 thousand

[beowulf]

Okay, then I expect him to appear before my desk (in the flesh mind you) at 0800 10 Dec 2004. If he does not, then he does not physically exist....that's what being alive means, being in the flesh, not as some spirit..... You evidentally can't come up with secular proof of your delusions so case closed!

[Consummate Deist]

Your population figures do not add up to the 6.5 billion that is the current population of 6.4 billion. I can't see your snide little "The Minority" rings true, when your really look at it (even if we grant you the overinflated 2 billion) 4.4 billion is much more than 2 billion, seems that the "The Minority" actually should go by "Christianity" I have to agree with Beowulf, being alive is a physical thing, not a spiritual thing....Show the evidence of his ever having lived!

[Mad Manfred]

atrueoriginall,

Do you know what "minority" means?

[Hotoke]

Show contemporary secular evidence that Jesus ever lived.  

394488[/snapback]

Your answer is too simple easy. Because he still lives today.

Current day almanac figures

Christianity: 2 billion

Islam: 1.3 billion

Hinduism: 900 million

Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 850 million (THE MINORITY)

Buddhism: 360 million

Chinese traditional religion: 225 million

primal-indigenous: 150 million

African Traditional & Diasporic: 95 million

Sikhism: 23 million

Juche: 19 million

Spiritism: 14 million

Judaism: 14 million

Baha'i: 6 million

Jainism: 4 million

Shinto: 4 million

Cao Dai: 3 million

Tenrikyo: 2.4 million

Neo-Paganism: 1 million

Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand

Rastafarianism: 700 thousand

Scientology: 600 thousand

Zoroastrianism: 150 thousand

394543[/snapback]

sooooo, ignored my post eh?

Edited December 9, 2004 by Hotoke

[BurnSide]

1) How exactly does posting those stats prove that jesus lives today?? It does not. It simply shows that there are only a small population of people on the world with a decent head on their shoulders.

2) Unless you show your sources, most people will be forced to believe you made that up yourself. State where you got your information.

[panther10758]

Jesus (The Man) did live there are (dont ask me where I am no expert) non biblical accounts of his life and even other religons mention him but not always as The Son of Man! Proof is a delicate matter which if presented would be accepted by many and discredited by many. Personally I dont care if you believe he lived or not that is your own personal belief I will NOT challange. If you seek evidence then searchit out there are Non biblical accounts of Jesus!

[Stellar]

Hmm... lets see what the current world opinion is, according to those statistics. 2 billion people believe christianity is right... while

1.3 billion + 900 million + 850 million + 360 million + 225 million + 150 million + 95 million + 23 million + 19 million + 14 million + 14 million + 6 million + 4 million + 4 million + 3 million + 2.4 million + 1 million + 800 thousand + 700 thousand + 600 thousand + 150 thousand

Think otherwise

[_hAiLO_]

Hmm... lets see what the current world opinion is, according to those statistics. 2 billion people believe christianity is right... while

1.3 billion + 900 million + 850 million + 360 million + 225 million + 150 million + 95 million + 23 million + 19 million + 14 million + 14 million + 6 million + 4 million + 4 million + 3 million + 2.4 million + 1 million + 800 thousand + 700 thousand + 600 thousand + 150 thousand

Think otherwise

394676[/snapback]

Thats nice . I think I'll believe in Jesus...

...one time in church, my fried was neeling near the alter. The priest came up, imprinted the sign of the cross of his forehead, and he fell backwards, uncouncious...regained concious like 20 minutes after...

Now as a skeptic, you don't need to believe in it. As Christians, they already know this...

[panther10758]

If one chooses they can search and find historical reference to Jesus The man which is all topic asks for Proof of Jesus not of who he claims to be for me I take Jesus as son of man but I respect right of others not to but Jesus the man did live!

[atrueoriginall]

Hmm... lets see what the current world opinion is, according to those statistics. 2 billion people believe christianity is right... while

1.3 billion + 900 million + 850 million + 360 million + 225 million + 150 million + 95 million + 23 million + 19 million + 14 million + 14 million + 6 million + 4 million + 4 million + 3 million + 2.4 million + 1 million + 800 thousand + 700 thousand + 600 thousand + 150 thousand

Think otherwise

394676[/snapback]

Who said anything about Christianity?

I mentioned Jesus, Enoch, Moses, Abraham and Methuselah. But if you want to spar, be fare and remember that Abraham was the father of Judaism and Islam.

So, remove from your above totals Islam - 1.3 billion and Judaism - 14 million. The score is now Christians 3,015,000 to Other 2,401,200

Think otherwise, because I to refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent!

Edited December 9, 2004 by atrueoriginall

[aquatus1]

...one time in church, my fried was neeling near the alter. The priest came up, imprinted the sign of the cross of his forehead, and he fell backwards, uncouncious...regained concious like 20 minutes after...

Now as a skeptic, you don't need to believe in it. As Christians, they already know this...

It's called Shock Hypnosis. It is well-documented, easy to replicate, and it can be done by anyone to anyone (milage may vary) regardless of religious beliefs.

Would I be correct in saying that the purpose of this thread was to lure skeptics in with the promise of imperical evidence or logical deduction, and instead proceed to preach about how sinful we are for not believing and that we are killing Jesus?

Doesn't sound like a very honest way to go about things. I wonder what Jesus would say?

[atrueoriginall]

sooooo, ignored my post eh?

No Hotoke, I ignore nothing. I also didn't ignore the fact that the nice piece you cut and pasted belongs to someone other then yourself.

You said, "This is not my research. I am working on a book that totally debunks religion, and that is where i got this from, i cant remember the source."

How convenient. Shall I try a websearch for you to help you jog your memory?

[atrueoriginall]

Doesn't sound like a very honest way to go about things.  I wonder what Jesus would say?

394794[/snapback]

Ah, Aquatus - Jesus said, "there will be Antichrists in that day".

I say, they stick out like a sore thumb.

Edited December 9, 2004 by atrueoriginall

[BurnSide]

Still no source for those stats. Did you actually make them up then, or will you post the link?

[Shadowsleet]

The proof is in the pudding eh? Well, I see no proof, and I definately see no pudding! I want my money back!