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Drunk teen killed


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#31    Sweetpumper

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:40 PM

He'd probably have died breaking into my house too.

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#32    SpiritWalker7

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:40 PM

Almost happened to me once..
Don't trust strangers with alcohol.


#33    Michelle

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:40 PM

View PostInsaniac, on 18 March 2013 - 06:36 PM, said:

Guns were invented as a means of killing the target. - Causing offence and dominating Man/Animal to it's injury.

They were designed with the intent to slaughter and nothing more.

If you need to defend yourself against a bear, you are no Hunter.

I'm definitely no hunter, but I do like to survive a camping trip where bears and boar are a real danger.


#34    Bavarian Raven

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:41 PM

This convo has gotten stupid. The home owner was simply protecting himself/his family. The drunk underaged young man did something incredible stupid (besides getting overly drunk when he probably shouldn't have been drinking) and paid for his actions. Its a sad event. But guns are not the problem. Some people would been arguing that baseball bats need to be banned if the home owner had used one to smash the intruder over the head. The fact is that the home owner acted in justified self defence. Case closed.

Ps - to the person who said guns aren't needed anymore... tell that to all the criminals and their like that are running around armed. ;) I'm just thankful I live in a place where there are fewer of them (criminals) and have not had to defend myself. in fact i'd dread the day should it sadly occur. :/

Edited by Bavarian Raven, 18 March 2013 - 06:43 PM.


#35    Collateral Damage

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:45 PM

View PostInsaniac, on 18 March 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:



I didn't say a car couldn't be used as a weapon. I said they were not designed with the intention to be used as weapons, which they weren't. They are designed as a mode of transportation.
I was at a pub once where two men were arguing and several minutes into the argument the white man called the black man a ******. The night ended with the black man running over the white man with his car leaving him dead on the scene. Cars aren't intended for murder but that doesn't change the fact they may be used for it. Just as guns were intended for the use of self-defense but many abuse that privilege for opposite reasoning.

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#36    SpiritWalker7

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:47 PM

I'm sorry, Bavarian Raven, but that is an absolutely stupid way to look at it.
It's easy to mistake a house when you are drunk or perhaps have been roofied. In all truth, he didn't know what he was doing. He thought he was at his house and paid for that mistake.
I am a proud gun owner and I know that you should at least see if there is a threat involved before blowing someone's head off. It could've been a curious child.. imagine how that would be.

Edited to add: Death is not what he deserved for drinking. It was foolish of him to drink in the first place, but saying that is like saying every such crime should be dealt with using the death penalty.

Edited by AliveInDeath7, 18 March 2013 - 06:49 PM.


#37    Kowalski

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:47 PM

Quote

A car most certainly can be used as a weapon. Just ask the guy in the Carrie Underwood Music video, "Two Black Cadallics."  :yes:

Just trying to lighten the mood with a joke... :su

In all seriousness though, anything can be used as weapon, no matter what it was DESIGNED to do. I mean, nail files can be weapon, and so can baseball bats. These things were not designed to be weapons, but they can be used for that purpose.

View PostInsaniac, on 18 March 2013 - 06:36 PM, said:

If you need to defend yourself against a bear, you are no Hunter.

Did You Know?
Male grizzlies average 225 kg (500 lbs), and females average around 160 kg (350 lbs).

Actually the male can reach 1700 pounds and stand over 10 ft tall, the average weight is 950 pounds for the male, the female can average at 8oo pounds.
:unsure2:

What is your suggestion if I am attacked by a grizzly bear? I guess I could stare him down a la Davy Crockett style...


#38    freetoroam

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:52 PM

View PostCollateral Damage, on 18 March 2013 - 05:16 PM, said:

The homeowner has done what any normal person would have. I wouldn't take lightly to an intrusion within my own household.
No, a normal person would not do this, well I hope not!  A paranoid gun holder would do this, someone who relies on his gun to ask the questions and give the answers would do this, but normal person...no!

I fully agree with protecting your family and home, but if someone is going to shoot another person just because (lets say he was breaking in) then it is a very sorry state of affairs! IS this how we deal with people now...shoot them without evaluation?!  the drunk did not pose a threat, the home owner knows his own home, he could easily have stood back and evaluated the situation first, maybe hide for a bit to see what the drunk would do...which I doubt would have been much and it would not have taken too long for the homeowner to see that the guy was not carrying a gun in his hand and sneaking about to rob the place.

This is not a case of man defending his family, its a man who was far too trigger happy with a gun..we have just had the Oscar Pistorius case, is this what gun owners are going to do now...shoot because they know no other way of judging a situation...now thats scary!

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#39    Insaniac

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:52 PM

View PostCrimsonKing, on 18 March 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

LMAO hahaha thats good stuff man i wont sit here and argue with ya.If your ever confronted by someone with a gun just use those super powers im sure you will be allright :tu:  

If i am confronted by someone with a gun or breaking into my house in the middle of the night  :gun:

Assuming you've been taught self-defence techniques, you'd be able to disarm the gunman and hold him at gunpoint, at which point you order the attacker onto the ground and call the police, thus arresting the one committing the offence.

So, no thanks. I believe it cowardly to hide behind the barrel of a gun. I'd much rather use my fists.

"He is wise in heart and mighty in strength. Who has hardened their heart against Him, and succeeded"? ~ Job 9:4

#40    Bavarian Raven

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:53 PM

Quote

I'm sorry, Bavarian Raven, but that is an absolutely stupid way to look at it.
It's easy to mistake a house when you are drunk or perhaps have been roofied. In all truth, he didn't know what he was doing. He thought he was at his house and paid for that mistake.
I am a proud gun owner and I know that you should at least see if there is a threat involved before blowing someone's head off. It could've been a curious child.. imagine how that would be.

Edited to add: Death is not what he deserved for drinking. It was foolish of him to drink in the first place, but saying that is like saying every such crime should be dealt with using the death penalty.

I said upfront this is a truly sad event. But the home owner is not at fault one bit. It was dark and someone was breaking in. Any honest person who truly cares for their family would put their family's well being first. He did what he thought he had to to keep his family safe. It's sad that it turned out to be a drunk teen. But the teen chose to drink. I'm sure this was not his first time drinking. There is a reason I don't get that drunk so that I cannot reason. But the teen did choose to drink and it is on his head what happened. Sad, but life will go on. It's not going to be easy for either party involved. But maybe (wishful thinking) other teenagers in the area will think twice before getting drunk (but they probably wont).

Quote

No, a normal person would not do this, well I hope not!  A paranoid gun holder would do this, someone who relies on his gun to ask the questions and give the answers would do this, but normal person...no!

I fully agree with protecting your family and home, but if someone is going to shoot another person just because (lets say he was breaking in) then it is a very sorry state of affairs!

You're right. We should give the intruder the chance to shoot you first and then rape your wife and/or kids, and then kill them too. Much better plan buddy! :whistle: (Not that I am advocating opening fire at the first odd noise, but sometimes you only have seconds to make a life saving decision. Nothing to do with being paranoid, its called surviving. And your family's life should come first and foremost).

Edited by Bavarian Raven, 18 March 2013 - 06:54 PM.


#41    AsteroidX

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:55 PM

If attacked by a Bear and he is acting aggressive you should increase your size as much as possible by standing tall and holding your arms out wide and legs spread turn around face the nearest tree and wait for the Forest Rangers to show up oh and dont forget to blow your safety whistle


#42    Bavarian Raven

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:55 PM

Quote

Assuming you've been taught self-defence techniques, you'd be able to disarm the gunman and hold him at gunpoint, at which point you order the attacker onto the ground and call the police, thus arresting the one committing the offence.

So, no thanks. I believe it cowardly to hide behind the barrel of a gun. I'd much rather use my fists

You've watched too many james bond movies. :no: :td: And unless you actually are a very skilled martial artist, this is a good way to get shot.

Edited by Bavarian Raven, 18 March 2013 - 06:56 PM.


#43    Insaniac

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:56 PM

View PostKowalski, on 18 March 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

Male grizzlies average 225 kg (500 lbs), and females average around 160 kg (350 lbs).

Actually the male can reach 1700 pounds and stand over 10 ft tall, the average weight is 950 pounds for the male, the female can average at 8oo pounds.
:unsure2:

What is your suggestion if I am attacked by a grizzly bear? I guess I could stare him down a la Davy Crockett style...

If the bear has a tight grip on you, I don't know what could be done. However, if you have a chance to leave, my suggestion is leave nature be. Saves your life and the bears.

"He is wise in heart and mighty in strength. Who has hardened their heart against Him, and succeeded"? ~ Job 9:4

#44    aztek

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:58 PM

View PostAliveInDeath7, on 18 March 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:


I am a proud gun owner and I know that you should at least see if there is a threat involved before blowing someone's head off. It could've been a curious child.. imagine how that would be.



you have no idea what happened inside the house, NONE, so it is actually YOU who "shoots first and asks question later", figuratively speaking.
and i'm pretty sure you would react the same way if real,(what you thought) threat was upon you.

RESIDENT TROLL.

#45    Insaniac

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:58 PM

View PostBavarian Raven, on 18 March 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

You've watched too many james bond movies. :no: :td: And unless you actually are a very skilled martial artist, this is a good way to get shot.

Not a fan of James Bond, sorry.

I agree however that without the correct teaching, you very well may get shot, but you can't exactly run away from a gunman without getting shot either, so... A risk worth taking as far as I'm concerned.

Edited to fix typo.

Edited by Insaniac, 18 March 2013 - 06:58 PM.

"He is wise in heart and mighty in strength. Who has hardened their heart against Him, and succeeded"? ~ Job 9:4




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