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Mars discovery "one for the history books"


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#91    Rafterman

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:33 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 28 November 2012 - 05:09 AM, said:

There is a new article out says that the PR people at NASA are saying it is nothing, just over enthusiast scientists making broad statements.

http://www.pcmag.com...,2412567,00.asp
Curiosity's 'Historic' Mars Discovery Just a Big Misunderstanding

I have it on good authority that this is correct.

The discovery is significant to the scientific community, but will be met with ho-hums from the general public.  But, frankly, unless they found an arm or something like that, this would probably be the case anyway.

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#92    bison

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 05:51 PM

See below the corrected version of link to NY Times article I cited in my last post. By the way I know it's Ms. McGregor not 'Mr.' Merely a typo.  Link: http://www.nytimes.c...s-intrigue.html


#93    DieChecker

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:37 PM

View PostRafterman, on 28 November 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

I have it on good authority that this is correct.

The discovery is significant to the scientific community, but will be met with ho-hums from the general public.  But, frankly, unless they found an arm or something like that, this would probably be the case anyway.
Right, even if it was metal, or carbon compounds, or glass, or something else fairly mundane, the scientists would be going bug-crazy, but the general population is going to be yawning big time.

Edited by DieChecker, 28 November 2012 - 09:37 PM.

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#94    sean6

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:41 PM

JPL: Curiosity rover has not found organic compounds on Mars

http://www.pasadenas...ganic-compounds

https://plus.google....sts/d2UADsreXQR

i dont know about nasa, they kind of lost my trust. so what did they find then ??

Edited by sean6, 29 November 2012 - 08:48 PM.


#95    seeder

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:58 PM

It was a dead martian cat.

The rover ran over it, so the headline will be that...  "curiosity killed the..."

We wont know till we know, but is there a chance this is now being censored/kept quiet so other countries dont rush to go there? Or for whatever other reason?

Edited by seeder, 29 November 2012 - 08:58 PM.

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#96    Admiral Rhubarb

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:59 PM

Well, I don't know about Mars, but they're finding some quite interesting things on Mercury .... http://uk.reuters.co...E8AS17F20121129

:santa:

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#97    bison

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:32 PM

View Postsean6, on 29 November 2012 - 08:41 PM, said:

JPL: Curiosity rover has not found organic compounds on Mars

http://www.pasadenas...ganic-compounds

https://plus.google....sts/d2UADsreXQR

i dont know about nasa, they kind of lost my trust. so what did they find then ??

View Postsean6, on 29 November 2012 - 08:41 PM, said:

JPL: Curiosity rover has not found organic compounds on Mars

http://www.pasadenas...ganic-compounds

https://plus.google....sts/d2UADsreXQR

i dont know about nasa, they kind of lost my trust. so what did they find then ??
                                                                                                                                                                                               The Headline doesn't agree with what was actually said in the article. No *definitive* evidence of organics has been detected by Curiosity. If there were no evidence for them at all, why add the qualifier 'definitive'? Perhaps they did find organic compounds, but aren't certain of it yet. Definitive evidence seems quite like proof. Responsible scientists  are not talking in terms of proof at this point. This is all about a single soil sample, and one team of scientists looking at some chemical test results. Many more samples, many more tests, and peer review lie between any potential discovery  and scientific proof.


#98    sean6

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:02 PM

View Postbison, on 29 November 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

The Headline doesn't agree with what was actually said in the article. No *definitive* evidence of organics has been detected by Curiosity. If there were no evidence for them at all, why add the qualifier 'definitive'? Perhaps they did find organic compounds, but aren't certain of it yet. Definitive evidence seems quite like proof. Responsible scientists  are not talking in terms of proof at this point. This is all about a single soil sample, and one team of scientists looking at some chemical test results. Many more samples, many more tests, and peer review lie between any potential discovery  and scientific proof.


they said
"one for the history books",,  they have found nothing...... nothing that they did not know about...


to say they found something and then say its nothing? come on ???
this is why peple dont tust nasa,
this is how it frist wint down

http://www.msnbc.msn...__utmk=86023576


#99    bison

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:02 AM

The person making the 'one for the history books' remark was Dr. Grotzinger, head of the Curiosity rover team. He was giving his personal reaction, not speaking officially on behalf of NASA, at the time. Chris Mckay was the one saying, essentially, that nothing new has been found. He also seems to have been giving a personal evaluation.
In just about 3 & 1/2 days (Monday, Dec. 3rd, at 9 a.m.) we will be told what has been found. They will probably say that  materials have been found that stand a good chance of being organic compounds, but that new soil samples need to be examined to verify this conclusion. This is not evasion or deception on their part. It is simply the slow, careful way in which science works.

Edited by bison, 30 November 2012 - 02:36 AM.


#100    sean6

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:58 AM

View Postbison, on 30 November 2012 - 02:02 AM, said:

The person making the 'one for the history books' remark was Dr. Grotzinger, head of the Curiosity rover team. He was giving his personal reaction, not speaking officially on behalf of NASA, at the time. Chris Mckay was the one saying, essentially, that nothing new has been found. He also seems to have been giving a personal evaluation.
In just about 3 & 1/2 days (Monday, Dec. 3rd, at 9 a.m.) we will be told what has been found. They will probably say that  materials have been found that stand a good chance of being organic compounds, but that new soil samples need to be examined to verify this conclusion. This is not evasion or deception on their part. It is simply the slow, careful way in which science works.

Dr. Grotzinger, head of the Curiosity rover team.....and yet he dont speak for nasa ,,,,,,,righttttttttttttttt,,, ok


#101    pokingjoker

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 03:14 AM

Its hard not to raise an eyebrow and wonder wtf. I mean the head of the team says omg all we know about mars will be rewritten then a bit later we get hey yeah forget all that we found nothing, sounds so much like ufo crashed in nevada then next day oops our bad just a weather ballon


#102    Admiral Rhubarb

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:57 AM

View Postbison, on 29 November 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

The Headline doesn't agree with what was actually said in the article. No *definitive* evidence of organics has been detected by Curiosity. If there were no evidence for them at all, why add the qualifier 'definitive'? Perhaps they did find organic compounds, but aren't certain of it yet. Definitive evidence seems quite like proof. Responsible scientists  are not talking in terms of proof at this point. This is all about a single soil sample, and one team of scientists looking at some chemical test results. Many more samples, many more tests, and peer review lie between any potential discovery  and scientific proof.
Anyway, never mind all that, if anyone had taken any notice of the story I posted above, they have discovered organics; on Mercury! Now whatever can we make of that?
Both ice and organic materials, which are similar to tar or coal, were believed to have been delivered millions of years ago by comets and asteroids crashing into the planet.

So wherever could they have come from?

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#103    bison

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:55 PM

Life requires organic matter, but organic matter may exist without life. Complex organic molecules can point to life; coal, oil, and tar on Earth are the remains of livings things. Similar substances can be synthesized in space without life entering into the picture. The latter are presumably what ended up on Mercury. If I found complex organics and wanted to know if they came from life or not, I'd look to the carbon isotopes therein. Life preferentially uses the lighter isotope, carbon 12. If the sample was an even mixture of carbon 12 and carbon 13, or if carbon 13 predominated,  I'd judge that life (at least as we know it) was absent. If carbon 12 were in the majority, life would seem likely.  This is probably what they have been trying to do lately with the Curiosity rover on Mars.


#104    bison

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 04:59 PM

For anyone interested in hearing and seeing tomorrow's presentation at the American Geophysical Union meeting, on what the Curiosity rover has recently discovered on Mars, the following site will carry it live at 9 a.m. Pacific time, Noon Eastern time, 17 hours Universal time (GMT).: http://www.ustream.tv/nasajpl

Edited by bison, 02 December 2012 - 05:02 PM.


#105    bison

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:53 AM

To sum up, ahead of tomorrow's press briefing: The official stand now seems to be that something 'interesting' and 'not insignificant' has been found by Curiosity. At the same time there is an effort to minimize the discovery, probably in a bid to avoid being stung by a premature announcement in case it doesn't turn out to be so remarkable, after all. This has happened to NASA several times.
I remain unconvinced by the claim that Dr. Grotzinger meant that the mission as a whole was 'one for the history books'. He clearly seemed to be talking specifically about the data from the analysis of the first soil sample. There is another very brief interview of him talking interestedly about odd, finely granular material that is not simply minerals, and how it could be further analyzed. This granular material might just turn out to be bacterial concretions, like very small versions of stromatolites found  on Earth.
The remark that no definitive evidence of organic compounds have been found is a straw man, set up to be knocked down. It tells us nothing but the obvious; that  tests on any single sample, scrutinized by one scientific team can not be definitive; that many more samples, tests, and peer review will be needed before something scientifically definitive is established.
On the chance that something as remarkable as life on another world has been found, I want to hear what is found, and what is known, even what is suspected, every step of the way. Proof will be longer in coming, if it comes, but will be well worth waiting for.





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