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The Coming Middle East War


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#31    Yamato

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 07:48 AM

View PostAsteroidX, on 20 February 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

http://wikiislam.net...ics_(Terrorism)

please remove the word terrorist every time its printed. Its a derogatory term.

Do you understand they hate us ?
I can't accept that source if I can't accept the terms it uses.   Where do you get 5% at from that even if I could?

Yes, do you understand why "they" hate us?


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#32    Zaphod222

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 07:49 AM

There is never peace in the Middle East, so the entire premise is stupid.
Shias hate Sunnis, Sunnis hate Shias, and they both hate non-muslims in general, and Jews in particular.
And both think that by murder and mayhem they are pleasing their god, who won´t be satisfied before Shariah rules the world.

What kind of fool thinks that on that foundation peace is even conceivable?

Remember, the non-islamic world is called "Dar-al Harb" in islamic terms, which means "Land of War".

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#33    AsteroidX

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 07:58 AM

Quote

I can't accept that source if I can't accept the terms it uses.   Where do you get 5% at from that even if I could?

I tried to find a neutral publication. The article is actually chalk full of good info. But in the name of loving Foxx news Ill resort to whats easily accessible. MSNBC and CNN seem to have just forgotten this part of history already.

Pick your Kool Aid. Thats whats available.

http://www.amnation....ves/010556.html

http://www.pursuingh...ical-islamists/


#34    Yamato

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:02 AM

View PostAsteroidX, on 20 February 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:

I tried to find a neutral publication. The article is actually chalk full of good info. But in the name of loving Foxx news Ill resort to whats easily accessible. MSNBC and CNN seem to have just forgotten this part of history already.

Pick your Kool Aid. Thats whats available.

http://www.amnation....ves/010556.html

http://www.pursuingh...ical-islamists/
Posted Image

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#35    AsteroidX

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:07 AM

You deserve a wall of text for that :gun:

Quote

Poll of attendees of a convention of the Islamic Society of North America:
1. Are you a U.S. Citizen? (If no, then don’t fill out survey.) Yes: 307
No: 0
2. Do you consider yourself to be a Muslim first, an American first, or both equally? Muslim first: 214
American first: 4
Both equally: 86
Undecided: 3
3. Is the American government at war with the religion of Islam? Yes: 208
No: 79
Undecided: 20
4. Can a good Muslim be a good American? Yes: 292
No: 11
Undecided: 4
5. Did Muslims hijack planes and fly them into buildings on 9/11? Yes: 117
No: 139
Undecided: 51
6. Did the U.S. government have advance knowledge of the 9/11 attacks, and allow the attacks to occur? Yes: 200
No: 70
Undecided: 37
7. Did the U.S. government organize the 9/11 attacks? Yes: 106
No: 151
Undecided: 50
8. Are the tapes of Osama Bin Laden, claiming responsibility for the 9/11 attacks and threatening future attacks, real or fake? Real: 126
Fake: 129
Undecided: 52
9. Did Muslims commit the July 2005 train and bus bombings in London? Yes: 140
No: 104
Undecided: 63
10. The Canadian government says it stopped a plot by Canadian Muslims in June 2006 to attack targets in Canada. Do you believe there was a real plot by Muslims? Yes: 61
No: 202
Undecided: 44
11. The British government says it stopped a plot by British Muslims in August 2006 to bomb planes flying to America. Do you believe there was a real plot by Muslims? Yes: 66
No: 191
Undecided: 50
12. Is Al Qaeda a real organization, operated by Muslims who are trying to attack America? Yes: 149
No: 109
Undecided: 49
13. Is Al Qaeda attacking America because Al Qaeda hates American freedoms? Yes: 17
No: 269
Undecided: 21
14. Is Al Qaeda attacking America because Al Qaeda hates American involvement in the Muslim world? Yes: 228
No: 54
Undecided: 25
15. Is it justifiable for the U.S. government to do any of the following in an attempt to prevent terrorist attacks in America:
a. taking religion and ethnicity into account as one factor when deciding whom to interview and search at airports? Yes: 37
No: 258
Undecided: 12
b. monitoring activities at American mosques? Yes: 43
No: 255
Undecided: 9
. . .
25. Was America justified in invading Afghanistan after 9/11? Yes: 51
No: 248
Undecided: 8
26. Is violence by Muslims against American civilians acceptable, in retaliation for the American government’s actions in the Muslim world? Yes: 23
No: 274
Undecided: 10
27. Is violence by Muslims against the American military overseas acceptable, in retaliation for the American government’s actions in the Muslim world? Yes: 134
No: 154
Undecided: 19
28. Is violence by Muslims against the American military in the U.S. acceptable, in retaliation for the American government’s actions in the Muslim world? Yes: 73
No: 211
Undecided: 23
29. Is violence by Muslims against American government officials acceptable, in retaliation for the American government’s actions in the Muslim world?
Yes: 51
No: 231
Undecided: 25[132]



#36    Zaphod222

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:15 AM

View Postslaughtr, on 19 February 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

A War in the middle east? there has always been war in the middle east and religion plays a big role,especially the jews who live on stolen land.

Another totally moronic comment. If "the Jews" live on "stolen land", so does everybody else in the Middle East and elsewhere.
(By the same token, do you claim that the Turks live on "stolen land", and the Byzantine empire should be restored?)

Israel does not make territorial claims on any of its neighbours and does not question their right to exist. It is actually the only country in the world explicitly established by the UN.

Compare that to its muslim arab neighbours who attacked Israel on the day of its founding and continue to question its right to exist.

All of this you would know if you did a minimum of research on the subject. I am really wondering where all these low-information commentators on this site come from.

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#37    ExpandMyMind

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:29 AM

View PostZaphod222, on 20 February 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:



Another totally moronic comment. If "the Jews" live on "stolen land", so does everybody else in the Middle East and elsewhere.
(By the same token, do you claim that the Turks live on "stolen land", and the Byzantine empire should be restored?)

Israel does not make territorial claims on any of its neighbours and does not question their right to exist. It is actually the only country in the world explicitly established by the UN.

Compare that to its muslim arab neighbours who attacked Israel on the day of its founding and continue to question its right to exist.

All of this you would know if you did a minimum of research on the subject. I am really wondering where all these low-information commentators on this site come from.

:D Says the guy who thinks the term 'Palestinian' was coined in the 60s by Arafat. Priceless.


#38    Yamato

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:30 AM

View PostZaphod222, on 20 February 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

Israel does not make territorial claims on any of its neighbours and does not question their right to exist.  It is actually the only country in the world explicitly established by the UN.
Israel was borne of terrorism.  They drove the British out with terrorist attacks by terrorists who would later rise to the top positions of the Israeli government.   The history and the facts about Israel, once you do your share of research, makes them look horrible compared to any contemporary.

If they were even living on the land explicitly established by the UN they wouldn't be in Palestine.  So citing that doesn't make much sense from a practical standpoint.  What other country in the world is colonizing a neighbor with "settlements"?   I can't name one.  What other country in the world is an occupier that builds walls of separation while insisting on keeping settlers on the other side of the wall at the same time?  That is the global epitome of bipolar contradictory nonsense displayed in a single policy.  The tyranny of occupation and siege with the paranoia of separation and apartheid.   We've always had either one or the other.  Israel actually gets away with both simultaneously.

The charter of Likud denies the right of Palestine to exist.  That Hamas duplicated this position in their own charter is poured the western world over while Israel having the same Charter is blatantly ignored.

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#39    Black Red Devil

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 11:04 AM

View PostZaphod222, on 20 February 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

Another totally moronic comment. If "the Jews" live on "stolen land", so does everybody else in the Middle East and elsewhere.
(By the same token, do you claim that the Turks live on "stolen land", and the Byzantine empire should be restored?)

Israel does not make territorial claims on any of its neighbours and does not question their right to exist. It is actually the only country in the world explicitly established by the UN.

Compare that to its muslim arab neighbours who attacked Israel on the day of its founding and continue to question its right to exist.

All of this you would know if you did a minimum of research on the subject. I am really wondering where all these low-information commentators on this site come from.

HAHA.  Israel, the only country in the world established by the UN!!  They definitely MUST be God's chosen ones.

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#40    and then

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 12:32 PM

View PostZaphod222, on 20 February 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

Another totally moronic comment. If "the Jews" live on "stolen land", so does everybody else in the Middle East and elsewhere.
(By the same token, do you claim that the Turks live on "stolen land", and the Byzantine empire should be restored?)

Israel does not make territorial claims on any of its neighbours and does not question their right to exist. It is actually the only country in the world explicitly established by the UN.

Compare that to its muslim arab neighbours who attacked Israel on the day of its founding and continue to question its right to exist.

All of this you would know if you did a minimum of research on the subject. I am really wondering where all these low-information commentators on this site come from.
That's the sad and sometimes infuriating part Zaphod - they AREN'T low-informed.  They are scholarly in their understanding of all the minute details.  They just express an absolute confidence in supporting that which can only be bigotry.  They will not be swayed or ever even admit they might be in error in any way.  The entire problem is due to the existence of Israel, which is, in their opinion, illegitimate.  There is no argument or fact or opinion or anything that ever will change the opinion of such as these.  But other opinions exist in the world and I am happy to keep reminding them :)     Though in a gentler way these days   :w00t:

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  for what could be, the darkest age...

#41    Yamato

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:17 PM

View Postand then, on 20 February 2013 - 12:32 PM, said:

That's the sad and sometimes infuriating part Zaphod - they AREN'T low-informed.  They are scholarly in their understanding of all the minute details.  They just express an absolute confidence in supporting that which can only be bigotry.  They will not be swayed or ever even admit they might be in error in any way.  The entire problem is due to the existence of Israel, which is, in their opinion, illegitimate.  There is no argument or fact or opinion or anything that ever will change the opinion of such as these.  But other opinions exist in the world and I am happy to keep reminding them :) Though in a gentler way these days   :w00t:
Well don't speak for me because you'd be speaking incorrectly.   Israel's policies are illegitimate.  I don't know if an unprecedented land grab via the UN is legitimate or not.  Presuming that it is, then Palestine is also legitimate.  Neither state, Israel or Palestine, is legitimate to the other.  We need to acknowledge that too, and not only drub one side of it as an excuse to buttress our opinions because it doesn't buttress either opinion when the same attitude exists on both sides.   To get to the real differences on this issue, you've got to be able to look at policy.  The policies of Israel and how they treat their neighbors and Palestinians are dramatically different than the reverse.  Nobody is occupying Israel.  Nobody is besieging Israel, cutting off their citizens from land, air and sea.   Nobody is stealing Israel's land.  Bulldozing Israeli's homes.  Imprisoning Israel's youth.  Bombing Israel's police stations, government buildings, and hospitals.  Dropping banned weapons of mass destruction on Israeli civilians.  Blocking Israeli freedom of mobility.  Banning toys and school supplies to Israel's children.  Cutting Israel up into a spider web of roads, checkpoints, forts, fencing, prime hilltop real estate, water resources, and non-Israeli-only settlements within Israel.  If these things were going on in Israel, to the exclusion of Palestine, and I was here saying the things you're saying in light of that, how would you take me then?   I'm the fairest voice in the room as far as trying to come up with an equal amicable solution for both sides that addresses everyone's self-determination, civil rights, and security.

Zaphod just made factually incorrect statements and you didn't catch them, how not surprising.  Israel does make territorial claims on its neighbors.  The Golan Heights are just one example.  The Likud Charter is another.   Endless Zionist rhetoric is easily researched and posted here and I'm not going to do that because it's too easy.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#42    ExpandMyMind

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:36 PM

A-T, you know fine well that it is the Occupation that we have a problem with.


#43    and then

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 05:50 PM

View PostExpandMyMind, on 20 February 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:

A-T, you know fine well that it is the Occupation that we have a problem with.
Then all should be genuinely pleased soon.  I expect that the EU and Obama are going to make Israel an offer they cannot refuse in March.  The Palestinians will get much, if not most of what they desire and Israel will get -not to be sanctioned internationally.  Normally I'd be angry about such a deal but I am really looking forward to it falling out just that way.  Maybe the region will be quiet for a season.

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#44    AsteroidX

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 05:58 PM

The region will not be quiet.. 90% of the death over there is muslim on muslim


#45    Yamato

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 11:15 PM

And that's exactly how we like it.   If Kuwait grew bananas instead of oil, we'd never have gone over there in the first place.   In even the worst imaginable banana scenario, the UN would be tripping over themselves squabbling over big-boy words like "genocide" ala sub-Saharan Africa.   Global banana prices would increase slightly.  The US media would focus on the latest celebrity gossip and Honey Boo Boo.   Keeping Muslims weak and killing each other is our only hope of maintaining our perpetually violent sphere of influence over the region via our proxy Israel, and more recently via doing Israel's dirty work ourselves.   As imbalances of power grow more disproportionate, it requires more and more active participation from US violence to maintain our national interests. I'm given hope that there are people from around the world who are smart enough to see the false-flag operations rife within our foreign policy through the decades, and Zionism is another one of those.   It's a Holocaust-dependent cover-story that produces some extremist religious tag-alongs and their kooky beliefs, but underneath all that religious monkey-business, it's really about militarizing the region with western power to dominate the resources and keep our special dibs with our "very special friends", quoting George Herbert Bush referring to the Saudi royal despots.

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Edited by Yamato, 20 February 2013 - 11:18 PM.

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