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Christian Zionism


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#1    GoSC

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 07:24 PM

Who follows this Christian teaching and why?

I do not follow it because there is no longer any distinction between Jews and Gentiles, only Christ. And Israel being possessors of the land was preconditional (see Deuteronomy 30:2-6, 10, 16, 20) and the regathering of the Jews had the same preconditions (Ezekiel 11:16-21, Ezekiel 36:22-38, Ezekiel 37:21-28).

I know more than 2 dozen pieces of scriptures offhand that place a strong argument against Christian Zionism and its tenets:

Deuteronomy 10:17
Matthew 21:43
Matthew 22:37-39
John 6:44
John 8:31-47
John 18:36
Acts 1:6-7
Acts 3:22-26
Acts 10:34
Romans 2:17-29
Romans 9:6-9
Romans 10:12
Romans 11:11-32
Galatians 2:6
Galatians 3:6 5:6
Galatians 3:16-29
Galatians 6:12-16
Ephesians 2:11-16
Ephesians 3:6
Philippians 3:2-3
1 Peter 1:17
1 Peter 2:9-10 (cf, Exodus 19:5-6)

Born Again Christians are God's chosen people (both Jew and Gentile).

Edited by B Jenkins, 01 May 2013 - 07:45 PM.

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#2    Mr Walker

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 11:26 AM

I am a supporter of jewish zionism for many historical reasons. But I am not a christian zionist and do not see the jewish establishment of israel as any thing to do with religious prophecy etc. It is purely a secular/political evolution of history.
The jews have a lot more logical and historical right to the state of israel, for example, than white people do to control  north america and australia. But no one seriously suggests we hand back lands to their historical indigenous occupants just because we occupied them by force.

Edited by Mr Walker, 03 May 2013 - 11:30 AM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#3    GoSC

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 12:00 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 03 May 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

I am a supporter of jewish zionism for many historical reasons. But I am not a christian zionist and do not see the jewish establishment of israel as any thing to do with religious prophecy etc. It is purely a secular/political evolution of history.
The jews have a lot more logical and historical right to the state of israel, for example, than white people do to control  north america and australia. But no one seriously suggests we hand back lands to their historical indigenous occupants just because we occupied them by force.

So personal accountability and the ten commandments are thrown right out the window with little or NO regard for God (see Deuteronomy 30:2-6, 10, 16, 20).

And please remember modern Judaism doesn't even truly follow the Torah it follows the Talmud which written by man which is the central primary Law of the Jewish religion.

And please also remember Biblical Israel was once called the bride of God, but now the Church is the Bride of Christ. Are suggesting God is a polygamist? That God has two brides. I truly believe the Israel project is done and fulfilled its purpose, it is time to move on and the Jews need to repent of their idolatrous Talmud, and realize Jesus was their messiah so the natural  branches can be grafted back into God's new bride, the church.

If you recall, in the OT, God called the nation of Israel his Bride, but in the NT God calls the Christian church his Bride. (See Romans 7:2-6 & Ephesians 5:31-32.)

Besides, according to Jewish prophecy, it is the Messiah HIMSELF that leads the Jews back to the land.

Israel has contributed to the suffering of millions, it is responsible for 5 million refugees and its occupation is truly an apartheid.

Please remember, God never changes. If He didn't tolerate an apostate Israel back in the 8th/6th BCE, what makes you think He is going to tolerate it today?

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#4    Mr Walker

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 01:09 PM

I just said I do not follow christian zionism, so I have no idea what you are talking about.  I walk with god. I chose a christian path because the bible is a good book of teachings, and my community is christian. I see christianity as an evolution of judaism (christ and all early christians were jews) I live in some ways like a jew from the early old testament might once have done, but in love not legalism. And i also believe in and live by more modern ethical codes and moralities (I dont keep slaves and my wife and I are equally yoked partners in marriage and in life)

But i keep the 10 commandments, including the sabbath day, from love; and my personal life with god strongly resembles that of moses or abraham or many other old testament people. God is real, alive, physical and powerful wise and aware.   God exists within me and all around me. He performs physical miracles, teaches and mentors me, protects me and loves me. But god is god of ALL humans; jew christian muslim buddhist and atheist.

One can love, obey, and live with god in any religion or indeed in none. It requires a personal relationship to live with god, not a book  Books distill the wisdoms and experiences of others who walked with god, but they are neither perfect, immutable, nor personally suitable for everyone. The church of god consists of every human who has opened their heart and mind to the presence of god and who lives their life ias one with god.

None of this has anything to do with the geopolitical reality of the state of israel. Israel is the good guy, a democratic state in a sea of despotism and arab extremism. It is the fulfilment of promises made by states, appalled by Hitler's treatment of jews and national guilt for doing nothing to protect the jewish peole of Europe.

While modern propaganda tells a different story; history and the truth is on the side of israel (not god) or any religion but reality.  Israel is happy to coexist as a nation state with its neighbours, but they are not and never have been. Tragically their continued war on Israel has only made their situation worse and caused the huge refugee problem in the area. Non jewish people (including muslims) who were happy to live as citizens within the state of israel have always been welcome to remain there, and  a great many still do. Many muslims are not content to live in ANY non muslim country. That is their problem, until they try to change the laws of a state to reflect their beliefs. Then a state must deal with them.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#5    GoSC

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 01:44 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 03 May 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

One can love, obey, and live with god in any religion or indeed in none. It requires a personal relationship to live with god, not a book  Books distill the wisdoms and experiences of others who walked with god, but they are neither perfect, immutable, nor personally suitable for everyone. The church of god consists of every human who has opened their heart and mind to the presence of god and who lives their life ias one with god.

None of this has anything to do with the geopolitical reality of the state of israel. Israel is the good guy, a democratic state in a sea of despotism and arab extremism. It is the fulfilment of promises made by states, appalled by Hitler's treatment of jews and national guilt for doing nothing to protect the jewish peole of Europe.

While modern propaganda tells a different story; history and the truth is on the side of israel (not god) or any religion but reality.  Israel is happy to coexist as a nation state with its neighbours, but they are not and never have been. Tragically their continued war on Israel has only made their situation worse and caused the huge refugee problem in the area. Non jewish people (including muslims) who were happy to live as citizens within the state of israel have always been welcome to remain there, and  a great many still do. Many muslims are not content to live in ANY non muslim country. That is their problem, until they try to change the laws of a state to reflect their beliefs. Then a state must deal with them.

Muslims and Christians are second class citizens in Israel. They are highly discriminated against.

Israel is  nationalistic and expansionistic colonialism.

Even the experts say the biggest obstacle to peace in the Middle East is Israel's occupation, Israel's settlements, and Israel's refusal to grant the right of the return of the refugees.

It was Zionist's Plan Dalet that began the expulsion and flight of the Palestinians. Plan Dalet was responsible for Deir Yassin Massacre (April 9, 1948) and along with another 30-40 recorded massacres of  Palestinian civilians. Palestinian babies were cut from their mother's wombs in these massacres, most that died in these massacres at the hands of the Zionists were women and children.

What kind of an individual does it take to kill harmless unarmed women and children? What kind of an individual can cut a baby from its mother's womb?

These Massacres occured before and during the multi-national Arab intervention that began the May 15, 1948. And I have stated these facts before, but 60% of the Zionist casualties in the 1948/1949 war occured in the territories that the UN had partitioned (set aside) for the Arabs. So who was truly invading who?

Evils that Europe perpetuated on the Jews, well, why hold the Palestinians accountable? Why should the Palestinians bear our burden and guilt for us? We scapegoated the Palestinians.

Edited by B Jenkins, 03 May 2013 - 01:46 PM.

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#6    Bluefinger

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 02:15 PM

View PostB Jenkins, on 01 May 2013 - 07:24 PM, said:

Who follows this Christian teaching and why?

I do not follow it because there is no longer any distinction between Jews and Gentiles, only Christ.

Born Again Christians are God's chosen people (both Jew and Gentile).

Agreed.  But the Jews and Gentiles are still different.  Paul, who said there is no difference between Jew and Gentile, also said that the Jews are blinded until the Fullness of Gentiles comes in, then ALL OF ISRAEL will be saved.

Of course, we must come to an agreement of what the original audiences considered to be salvation.  Paul seemed to think it was inclusion into the Abrahamic blessings.  This is strongly supported by Matthew 21:33-45, Romans 11, and Galatians 3:13-14.

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree"— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith." (Galatians 3:13, 14 ESV)

By faith, we are all in Abraham's bosom, not just the Jews.  So, the promised land is ours too.  The countless offspring is ours too.  The blessings for the world are ours too.  Those who bless us are blessed and those who curse us are cursed.  

On a national level, the Jews still reject the kingdom of God (Jesus).  Its no surprise, then, that they are giving away land to keep peace.  

The Gospel according to Matthew is a worthy read if read from this perspective.

Edited by Bluefinger, 03 May 2013 - 02:15 PM.

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#7    Setton

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 04:54 PM

View PostB Jenkins, on 03 May 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

And please also remember Biblical Israel was once called the bride of God, but now the Church is the Bride of Christ. Are suggesting God is a polygamist? That God has two brides.

If you recall, in the OT, God called the nation of Israel his Bride, but in the NT God calls the Christian church his Bride. (See Romans 7:2-6 & Ephesians 5:31-32.)

Please remember, God never changes. If He didn't tolerate an apostate Israel back in the 8th/6th BCE, what makes you think He is going to tolerate it today?

So God had a divorce..? That'll be an interesting one for Catholics :whistle:

As for 'God never changes', you have actually read the Bible, right?

'Good' is not the same as 'nice'.
'No, murder is running your broadsword through someone because he worships a different God to you... Or is that evangelism? I get confused.'
When they discover the centre of the universe, a lot of people are going to be disappointed - They are not it.
I don't object to the concept of a deity but I'm baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance.

#8    Mr Walker

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 11:20 PM

View PostB Jenkins, on 03 May 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

Muslims and Christians are second class citizens in Israel. They are highly discriminated against.

Israel is  nationalistic and expansionistic colonialism.

Even the experts say the biggest obstacle to peace in the Middle East is Israel's occupation, Israel's settlements, and Israel's refusal to grant the right of the return of the refugees.

It was Zionist's Plan Dalet that began the expulsion and flight of the Palestinians. Plan Dalet was responsible for Deir Yassin Massacre (April 9, 1948) and along with another 30-40 recorded massacres of  Palestinian civilians. Palestinian babies were cut from their mother's wombs in these massacres, most that died in these massacres at the hands of the Zionists were women and children.

What kind of an individual does it take to kill harmless unarmed women and children? What kind of an individual can cut a baby from its mother's womb?

These Massacres occured before and during the multi-national Arab intervention that began the May 15, 1948. And I have stated these facts before, but 60% of the Zionist casualties in the 1948/1949 war occured in the territories that the UN had partitioned (set aside) for the Arabs. So who was truly invading who?

Evils that Europe perpetuated on the Jews, well, why hold the Palestinians accountable? Why should the Palestinians bear our burden and guilt for us? We scapegoated the Palestinians.
I think we have had this dicussion before. We have a differnt understanding of both the historical facts and their causes.

History  stands as history, and should not be interpeted through a religious belief system (ever)

We can argue about respective massacres and atrocities all you like, but the jews had and retain a lawful right to their homeland/ nation state So do the palestinians but only under the original terms of partition.

And in the beginning the Israelis they did try to establish a state that included all types of people. The majority of current palestinian refugees remain descendants of those who fled from within Israel, not because of any action by israelis but becausee they feared an arab invasion and  warfare within israel. They were encouraged in this fear by the arab states who vowed to eliminate the stst of israel from its beginning.

Yes israel is a jewish state and the living conditions and expectations within it reflect this. This is an anathema to some, including many americans who believe in a secular state, but all the states around Israel are muslim states not secular ones. Israel is at least a democratic jewish state, restricted by the laws and expectations of a democracy. This is not true for almost every muslim state in the middle east. It is why Israel has been allowed to live with nuclear weapons, while I doubt any non democratic religious based muslim state will be allowed to, becaue of the geopolitical risks that would entaill.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#9    GoSC

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:56 AM

View PostSetton, on 03 May 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

So God had a divorce..? That'll be an interesting one for Catholics :whistle:

As for 'God never changes', you have actually read the Bible, right?

I have! But have you?

For your Maker is your husband – the Lord Almighty is his name – the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer; He is called the God of all the earth. Isaiah 54:5

“In that day,” declares the Lord, “you will call me ‘my husband,’ you will no longer call me ‘my master.’ …I will betroth you to me forever; I will betroth you in righteousness and justice, in love and compassion. I will betroth you in faithfulness and you will acknowledge the Lord. Hosea 2:16,19-20

No longer will they call you Deserted, or name you Desolate. But you will be called Hephzibah [my delight is in her] and your land Beulah [married], for the LORD will take delight in you, and your land will be married. As a young man marries a maiden, so will your Builder marry you; as a bridegroom rejoices over his bride, so will your God rejoice over you. Isaiah 62:4-5

(CF)

And I saw that for all the adulteries of faithless Israel, I had sent her away and given her a writ of divorce, yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear; but she went and was a harlot also. Jeremiah 3:8

24 “When a man takes a wife and marries her, and it happens that she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some indecency in her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out from his house, 2 and she leaves his house and goes and becomes another man’s wife, 3 and if the latter husband turns against her and writes her a certificate of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house, or if the latter husband dies who took her to be his wife, Deuteronomy 24:1-3


So, in other words, the Christian faith is the new Bride as spoken of throughout the New Testament particularly Revelation.

Edited by B Jenkins, 04 May 2013 - 01:53 AM.

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#10    Setton

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 01:03 AM

View PostB Jenkins, on 04 May 2013 - 12:56 AM, said:

I have! But have you?

So, in other words, the Christian church is the new Bride as spoken of throughout the New Testament particularly Revelation.

I have but not for a lot of years; I prefer books that are at least consistent.

Also, new question: have you read my post? If so, you'd realise there were two separate points.

1. God having a divorce will be an interesting one to Catholics.
2. You claim God never changes. This is not supported by the Bible.

To respond to this, you quote a load of Biblical verses about God being divorced. Which has nothing to do with my point.

'Good' is not the same as 'nice'.
'No, murder is running your broadsword through someone because he worships a different God to you... Or is that evangelism? I get confused.'
When they discover the centre of the universe, a lot of people are going to be disappointed - They are not it.
I don't object to the concept of a deity but I'm baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance.

#11    GoSC

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 01:42 AM

View PostBluefinger, on 03 May 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

Agreed.  But the Jews and Gentiles are still different.  Paul, who said there is no difference between Jew and Gentile, also said that the Jews are blinded until the Fullness of Gentiles comes in, then ALL OF ISRAEL will be saved.

Of course, we must come to an agreement of what the original audiences considered to be salvation.  Paul seemed to think it was inclusion into the Abrahamic blessings.  This is strongly supported by Matthew 21:33-45, Romans 11, and Galatians 3:13-14.

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree"— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith." (Galatians 3:13, 14 ESV)

By faith, we are all in Abraham's bosom, not just the Jews.  So, the promised land is ours too.  The countless offspring is ours too.  The blessings for the world are ours too.  Those who bless us are blessed and those who curse us are cursed.  

On a national level, the Jews still reject the kingdom of God (Jesus).  Its no surprise, then, that they are giving away land to keep peace.  

The Gospel according to Matthew is a worthy read if read from this perspective.

Absolutely, Christ is the very seed of Abraham, (see Galatians 3:16),  thereby we are all sons of God (see Galatians 3:26), and we of the Christian faith now ALL represent the offspring of Abraham and heirs to the promises that is both Christ believing Jews and Gentiles (see Galatians 3:29, Ephesians 3:6).

Through Christ Jews and Gentiles no longer holds any value (see Romans 10:12, Galatians 5:6)
There is no Jew or Gentile anymore because we are all one in Christ. (see Galatians 3:28)
Jews and Gentiles are a new creation, and are participants of the new 'Israel Of God'. (see Galatians 6:15-16)
Gentiles are no longer excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, Gentiles are no longer strangers to the covenant, though Gentiles formerly were afar off, Jesus brought the Gentiles near, Christ made Jews and Gentiles into one, and broke down every barriers and removed every distinction between them. Christ made two distinct peoples, Jew and Gentile, into one new man, by reconciling them both into one body (the body of Christ). (see Ephesians 2:12-16)
In other words, Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow partakers of the (Abrahamic) promise simultaneously with Christ believing Jews. (see Galatians 3:29, Ephesians 3:6)

Now we must ask ourselves, what value does the modern apostate state of Israel hold in regards to our faith?

Afterall, Romans 2:17-29 dictates there is only one TRUE Jew, the one that faithfully pursues the Law in faith, obedience, and love. Not every Jew that claims to be a natural Jew is a genuine descendant of Abraham any longer (Romans 9:6-7). Because there is a forfeiture of the Abrahamic promises under the New Covenant and the 'Israel of God'. So truly, all of Israel is saved which is no longer Jewish inclusive.

Edited by B Jenkins, 04 May 2013 - 01:53 AM.

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#12    GoSC

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 01:48 AM

View PostSetton, on 04 May 2013 - 01:03 AM, said:

I have but not for a lot of years; I prefer books that are at least consistent.

Also, new question: have you read my post? If so, you'd realise there were two separate points.

1. God having a divorce will be an interesting one to Catholics.
2. You claim God never changes. This is not supported by the Bible.

To respond to this, you quote a load of Biblical verses about God being divorced. Which has nothing to do with my point.

God will not tolerate an apostate and disobedient Israel for long. In that regard, God never changes. God demands faithfulness and obedience. God likened Israel as His bride, now He likens the Christian faith as the Bride of Christ.

What is a marriage biblically, I ask you? What is adultery biblically, I ask you?

This is called symbolism, and you are trying to call me on it in the most blunt of literal ways.

Edited by B Jenkins, 04 May 2013 - 01:52 AM.

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#13    GoSC

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 01:54 AM

I edited many of my newest posts to remove the word "church" and replace it with a more proper word in my opinion "Christian faith".

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#14    GoSC

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 02:09 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 03 May 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

I think we have had this dicussion before. We have a differnt understanding of both the historical facts and their causes.

History  stands as history, and should not be interpeted through a religious belief system (ever)

We can argue about respective massacres and atrocities all you like, but the jews had and retain a lawful right to their homeland/ nation state So do the palestinians but only under the original terms of partition.

Deuteronomy chapters 28 & 30, dictated how the Jews retain lawful right to their homelands. The Jewish Zionists were made of entirely of atheistic Jews. Before the UN Partition Plan on November 29, 1947, the Zionist only had legal ownership and possession of 6% of Palestine which they bought out their own pockets with the help of charitable Jewry worldwide. So, before November 29, 1947, a state for the Jews could only legally be set up on 6% of Palestine. This is what infuriated the Palestinians about the plan. Because it literally gave the Zionists 56.47% of Palestine, and gave the Palestinian Arabs 43.53% of Palestine.

Now at the time of this Partition Plan there were 608,000 Jews in Palestine and there were 1,237,000 non-Jews in Palestine. So not only were the Jews immigrants at the time of the plan, but they only had legal claim to 6% of the Palestine and were a minority making up 33% of the total population of Palestine.

Now, who got the shaft from the UN, Mr Walker? The Palestinians? Or the Jews?


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And in the beginning the Israelis they did try to establish a state that included all types of people. The majority of current palestinian refugees remain descendants of those who fled from within Israel, not because of any action by israelis but becausee they feared an arab invasion and  warfare within israel. They were encouraged in this fear by the arab states who vowed to eliminate the stst of israel from its beginning.

That is pure Zionist myth. What about the 30-40 massacres and the campaign of terror the Zionist conducted in 1947 into 1948 BEFORE the Arabs intervened on May 15, 1948. The most famous of these massacres is Deir Yassin massacre which OCCURED on April 9, 1948. More than a whole month before the Arabs declared war on Israel.

Edited by B Jenkins, 04 May 2013 - 02:09 AM.

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#15    GoSC

GoSC

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 03:04 AM

One of the best videos I have watched on Christian Zionism. It is long and one may watch it in portions. But it is well worth your time.



"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).




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