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To theists: Why should we believe in gods?

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#16    Vatic

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 07:12 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 01 October 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

An interesting thread, but no mention at all about the possibility of the intervention or visitation by others.  It does seem quite likely that what we call gods were really ET visitors.

Vatic: Technically, any being that is not earth indigineous, is extra terrestrial. But that doesn't mean any particular being has to be a Biological Entity. God, a spirit, is not from here. The Serpent Watchers who intermarried with human women, seemed to have properties of both biological and spiritual entities. They aren't from here either. Other angelic beings aren't from here. Jesus isn't from here, since he is an earthly incarnation of a being who rides on what is described as a kind of cloud. He apeared to the people prior to his incarnation in a cloud. When he ascended he returned to the cloud. When he returns he is on the cloud. Technically even Jesus is extraterrestrial.


#17    Royal

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 07:15 PM

View PostVatic, on 01 October 2012 - 07:00 AM, said:

Vatic: This assumes nobody has seen. It assumes nobody has had proof. You assume this life is all we have. Such an assumption cannot be a reasonable basis to postulate a psychological basis for belief in God. You can't speak for everyone and think you've made a reasonable statement. Assumptions just don't mean a lot.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I assume nothing Vatic. Either you believe in a deity or philosophy that adheres to an afterlife, or you don't.The point I was trying to make was in reference to the formation of religion in general

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#18    Vatic

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 07:26 PM

View PostSetton, on 01 October 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

As i said, it's based on personal experiences. The only other explanations I've ever heard offered for a personal relationship with a god are 'You're lying' or 'Something muse be wrong with you'. It's a nice fail-safe a certain kind of anti-theist likes to fall back on if they can't find a logical flaw. Basically if everything you say adds up and they can't find a hole, the only logical conclusion in their minds is that you are insane.

Vatic: I know exactly what you mean.


#19    Alienated Being

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 09:41 PM

View PostSetton, on 01 October 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

As i said, it's based on personal experiences. The only other explanations I've ever heard offered for a personal relationship with a god are 'You're lying' or 'Something muse be wrong with you'. It's a nice fail-safe a certain kind of anti-theist likes to fall back on if they can't find a logical flaw. Basically if everything you say adds up and they can't find a hole, the only logical conclusion in their minds is that you are insane.
Well, in all honesty, I cannot say that I would place a personal relationship with a "god" very high on the scale of sanity, in all honesty.

Quote

Leaving aside personal experiences, as I mentioned before, there is the issue of the uncaused cause. If you trace things back far enough, everything is caused by something else. I find the possibility of gods far more acceptable than people just going 'Don't know'.
So, you are going to accept that certain things are the result of gods, until proven otherwise? That is a rather defeatist attitude, if you ask me. Personally, I find skepticism, and simply accepting that we really DON'T know as being more admirable than saying "I cannot explain it, therefore... god did it."


#20    Hasina

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 09:47 PM

View PostAlienated Being, on 01 October 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

Well, in all honesty, I cannot say that I would place a personal relationship with a "god" very high on the scale of sanity, in all honesty.


So, you are going to accept that certain things are the result of gods, until proven otherwise? That is a rather defeatist attitude, if you ask me. Personally, I find skepticism, and simply accepting that we really DON'T know as being more admirable than saying "I cannot explain it, therefore... god did it."

Try that on any school test, I dare anyone.

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#21    Setton

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 10:42 PM

View PostAlienated Being, on 01 October 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

Well, in all honesty, I cannot say that I would place a personal relationship with a "god" very high on the scale of sanity, in all honesty.

And there it is! Knew it was only a matter of time. Thought i'd give you the benefit of the doubt and try to answer your questions. Thanks for showing me I had it right in the first place. Fortunately, science relies on more than your valuation of sanity.

Quote

So, you are going to accept that certain things are the result of gods, until proven otherwise? That is a rather defeatist attitude, if you ask me. Personally, I find skepticism, and simply accepting that we really DON'T know as being more admirable than saying "I cannot explain it, therefore... god did it."

Your really not seeing the point. It's not a case of saying gods are responsible for anything we don't understand. It's saying they are ultimately responsible. Take the Big Bang for example. Something must have cause that. Maybe one day we will discover what. To take a wild example, say it was painted by a giant hamster. The question then would be, where did the hamster come from? And any answer to that would need to have come from somewhere. Ultimately, there must be something without a beginning. That thing would be one or more gods.

Edited by Setton, 01 October 2012 - 10:43 PM.

'Good' is not the same as 'nice'.
'No, murder is running your broadsword through someone because he worships a different God to you... Or is that evangelism? I get confused.'
When they discover the centre of the universe, a lot of people are going to be disappointed - They are not it.
I don't object to the concept of a deity but I'm baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance.

#22    Alienated Being

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 12:09 AM

View PostSetton, on 01 October 2012 - 10:42 PM, said:

Your really not seeing the point. It's not a case of saying gods are responsible for anything we don't understand. It's saying they are ultimately responsible. Take the Big Bang for example. Something must have cause that. Maybe one day we will discover what. To take a wild example, say it was painted by a giant hamster. The question then would be, where did the hamster come from? And any answer to that would need to have come from somewhere. Ultimately, there must be something without a beginning. That thing would be one or more gods.
Everything has to have been created by something, as you stated, yourself. "Gods" are no exception.


#23    Vatic

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 04:02 AM

View PostSetton, on 01 October 2012 - 10:42 PM, said:


Your really not seeing the point. It's not a case of saying gods are responsible for anything we don't understand. It's saying they are ultimately responsible. Take the Big Bang for example. Something must have cause that. Maybe one day we will discover what. To take a wild example, say it was painted by a giant hamster. The question then would be, where did the hamster come from? And any answer to that would need to have come from somewhere. Ultimately, there must be something without a beginning. That thing would be one or more gods.

Vatic: Not many people understand the philosophical certainty of the "first existing, self existing thing".


#24    Vatic

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 04:06 AM

View PostAlienated Being, on 02 October 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

Everything has to have been created by something, as you stated, yourself. "Gods" are no exception.

Then what created the gods? Things exist so therefore something must be self existent, something must be prime before anything to exist at all.


#25    The Silver Thong

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 04:15 AM

View PostVatic, on 02 October 2012 - 04:06 AM, said:

Then what created the gods? Things exist so therefore something must be self existent, something must be prime before anything to exist at all.

True yet not true.  Not even comes close to explaining a god nor why would one be required.

Sittin back drinkin beer watchin the world take it's course.


The only thing god can't do is prove he exists ?

#26    Mr Walker

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 07:45 AM

Because the act of believing has been proven, empirically, to be good for your psychological and physical health.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#27    Setton

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:41 AM

View PostAlienated Being, on 02 October 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

Everything has to have been created by something, as you stated, yourself. "Gods" are no exception.

Unless we define a god as something with no beginning or ending. Remember, nobody knows anything about gods really. Our definitions are entirely personal.

'Good' is not the same as 'nice'.
'No, murder is running your broadsword through someone because he worships a different God to you... Or is that evangelism? I get confused.'
When they discover the centre of the universe, a lot of people are going to be disappointed - They are not it.
I don't object to the concept of a deity but I'm baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance.

#28    Alienated Being

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:47 AM

View PostSetton, on 02 October 2012 - 08:41 AM, said:

Unless we define a god as something with no beginning or ending. Remember, nobody knows anything about gods really. Our definitions are entirely personal.
Your definitions are entirely personal, of course; and you are more than welcome to believe in whatever you like. I can concoct absolutely anything in my mind, and convince myself that it is true.... however, that does not indicate that it is true. Just don't include your illogical beliefs in the realm of science.


#29    Alienated Being

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:49 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 02 October 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

Because the act of believing has been proven, empirically, to be good for your psychological and physical health.
Sources? Data? I have data that suggests that prayer is detrimental for your health.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16569567

http://www.templeton...7STEP_paper.pdf



Quote

RESULTS:

In the 2 groups uncertain about receiving intercessory prayer, complications occurred in 52% (315/604) of patients who received intercessory prayer versus 51% (304/597) of those who did not (relative risk 1.02, 95% CI 0.92-1.15). Complications occurred in 59% (352/601) of patients certain of receiving intercessory prayer compared with the 52% (315/604) of those uncertain of receiving intercessory prayer (relative risk 1.14, 95% CI 1.02-1.28). Major events and 30-day mortality were similar across the 3 groups.

Next time you pray for somebody, you may not want to tell them that they are being prayed for. IT MIGHT NOT WORK IF YOU DO.

Edited by Alienated Being, 02 October 2012 - 10:59 AM.


#30    Render

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 11:36 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 02 October 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

Because the act of believing has been proven, empirically, to be good for your psychological and physical health.

Well, as recently posted, faith healers have been proven to be really bad for psychological and physical health.






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