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Croatians attempt to supress minority rights


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#16    Jessica Christ

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 11:52 AM

You ask about Vojvodina and signs with Hungarian?

Quote

For documents like passports both variantion are offered, as people belonging to other ethnic groups than Serbian (like Hungarians and Albanians with Serbian passport) prefer the latinic version. In the some places of the Vojvodina region, where for example a lot of Hungarians live, the latinic is in wide use (there cyrillic serbian, latinic serbian and hungarian stand together on traffic signs.)

Posted Image

http://sajkaca.blogs...n-cyrillic.html

Keep in mind Hungarians make up only 20% in that city above yet they rights are respected in Vojvodina. In Vukovar where Serbs make up more than 1/3 of the population yet some want to deny minority rights there.

Vojvodina officially has six official languages used in different capacities.

Quote

Nevertheless, under the Socialist government, minority rights were enshrined by law and the various minority languages spoken in Vojvodina were protected and recognized to a certain degree. The ones with the most numerous speakers – Hungarian, Ruthenian/Ukrainian, Slovak and Romanian – are used on official buildings and signs, while the others (Romani, Banat Bulgarian, German, distinct dialects of Serbo-Croatian, Turkish, Greek, etc.) might be recognized for use in specific municipalities.

http://members.virtu...m/m/p/m/1dd724/

There are villages with only Serbs, some with only Hungarians. Vukovar has cafes that only Croatians will patronize and others where only Serbs go to.

Then you have some areas where people get along better.

No nothing is perfect there and there was ugly graffiti happening on some of the signs in some areas. There is also graffiti made against Serbs.

Vojvodina has also had bilingual schools since 2004. There are funding and other issues but things are improving.

http://mag.digitalpc....&view=ZW50aXR5

Edited by Leave Britney alone!, 24 April 2013 - 12:52 PM.


#17    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 02:50 PM

@Britney
few facts,

1. Chetniks also sided with Nazists vs. Partisans
2. Ustashe was anti Serb movement in the beging.
3. Its Croats not Croatians.
4. No one cares about Serb hegemony anymore. One wrong step and RS will be cut off. Divided. I hope Serbs dont act like Indians anymore. (Calling the Storm, again.)
5. There is difference between being Patriot and being Nationalist.
6. In Croatian constitution it is written: "Goverment can allow use of other scripts..." Notice: Not MUST. But CAN. Meaning they can do it. If they want. Its not MUST thing.


Since you were not there to see what happened I could give you some notes, just say the word.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#18    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 02:52 PM

View PostAtentutankh-pasheri, on 23 April 2013 - 10:22 PM, said:

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What part you didnt understand?

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#19    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 02:59 PM

poshel na hui

Edited by Atentutankh-pasheri, 24 April 2013 - 03:04 PM.


#20    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 03:13 PM

View Postthe L, on 24 April 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

@Britney
few facts,

1. Chetniks also sided with Nazists vs. Partisans
2. Ustashe was anti Serb movement in the beging.
3. Its Croats not Croatians.
4. No one cares about Serb hegemony anymore. One wrong step and RS will be cut off. Divided. I hope Serbs dont act like Indians anymore. (Calling the Storm, again.)
5. There is difference between being Patriot and being Nationalist.
6. In Croatian constitution it is written: "Goverment can allow use of other scripts..." Notice: Not MUST. But CAN. Meaning they can do it. If they want. Its not MUST thing.

Since you were not there to see what happened I could give you some notes, just say the word.

My understanding of the situation is that during WW2 Croatians put on Nazi uniforms and went and genocided Serbs. Then the international community tried to restore peace to the Balklands by creating Yugoslavia. The Croatians rebelled in 1991 starting yet another conflict in the region. Serbia, angry at the genocide and rebellion, then got its revenge by killing Croatians.

It seems to me Croatians moan a lot at Miloevic but in truth he was a great leader. He didnt take any nonsense of them and sent his forces in to kick butt. It always seems to be Croatia starting wars and killing other people. We find them at it again now with trying to surpress minority rights.

Edited by Giant Killer B, 24 April 2013 - 03:17 PM.


#21    SpiritWriter

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 03:36 PM

I cannot contribute to this thread but I must say I like the passion...


Xoxo all


Peace

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#22    Jessica Christ

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 06:05 PM

View PostGiant Killer B, on 24 April 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

My understanding of the situation is that during WW2 Croatians put on Nazi uniforms and went and genocided Serbs. Then the international community tried to restore peace to the Balklands by creating Yugoslavia. The Croatians rebelled in 1991 starting yet another conflict in the region. Serbia, angry at the genocide and rebellion, then got its revenge by killing Croatians.

It seems to me Croatians moan a lot at Miloevic but in truth he was a great leader. He didnt take any nonsense of them and sent his forces in to kick butt. It always seems to be Croatia starting wars and killing other people. We find them at it again now with trying to surpress minority rights.

I share a very similar opinion except that Milosevic, who might not have started the war, was a contributor the violence and madness. As well, his policies did not respect the rights of all minorities, including the Vojvodina. Everyone has a right to go to school and have signs in their language, his policies reversed that, luckily Serbia is adopting more fair practices now.


#23    Helen of Annoy

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 06:14 PM

View Postthe L, on 24 April 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

What part you didnt understand?

He didn’t understand why you leave a part of your own heritage to others – in other words, Cyrillic was used by Croats in the past too, and I don’t mean only during ex-Yu rule. People would even mix Cyrillic, Latin and Glagolitic, it's not script's fault who used it, when and for what.

Victims of Greater Serbian aggression do associate Cyrillic with said aggression, it has to be noted and respected, but we must not allow further loss of our own culture or further real-life trolling.

We have reasons to doubt the motives for recent Cyrillic episode, but we have no reason to fear any script or language. In other words, we are entitled to react but not to overreact.

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#24    Jessica Christ

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 06:33 PM

If we can agree on at least one point then it might be that I agree, Serb nationalists need to stop their graffiti and other acts within Vukovar, which are vile, which cause pain and suffering.

Quote

Apart from the usual cross with four letters `S`, writings `This is Serbia`, `Death To Croats`, `Death to Ustasha`, `Welcome to the Serbian Republic – you are all Serbs` and similar pro-Serbian paroles were sprayed during the night with car paint at various locations across the city where Serbs during the war slaughtered Croatian children, elder, wounded men and women.

The graffiti dawned on the Post wall and cinemas in Borovo naselje quarter, the children`s playground, park walls and housing estates.

The police constantly fight nationalist graffiti in Vukovar, because as a rule, they never find the perpetrators, unless they are caught red-handed.

Just a day before Croatian Victory and Veterans` Day and Homeland Thanksgiving Day, graffiti reading `Serbia`, `This is Serbia` and the cross with four letter `S`, dawned on the Ovcara Memorial Home on August 5, 2008.
http://www.virginiak...roatian-vukovar

I don't support that.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!, 24 April 2013 - 06:39 PM.


#25    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 06:41 PM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 24 April 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

I share a very similar opinion except that Milosevic, who might not have started the war, was a contributor the violence and madness. As well, his policies did not respect the rights of all minorities, including the Vojvodina. Everyone has a right to go to school and have signs in their language, his policies reversed that, luckily Serbia is adopting more fair practices now.

Luckly in Serbia there isnt mass graves sites. :tu:

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#26    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 06:43 PM

View PostHelen of Annoy, on 24 April 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:


Victims of Greater Serbian aggression do associate Cyrillic with said aggression, it has to be noted and respected, but we must not allow further loss of our own culture or further real-life trolling.


Language ans script is living thing. It evolves.
I think that we evolve from Cyrillic once for all. Thanks to Serbs and their hegemony.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#27    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 06:46 PM

View PostGiant Killer B, on 24 April 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:


It seems to me Croatians moan a lot at Miloevic but in truth he was a great leader.


After this I dicided that you will be ignored for rest of this debate. Due your sympathy for mass murder.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#28    Helen of Annoy

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 06:55 PM

View PostGiant Killer B, on 24 April 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

My understanding of the situation is that during WW2 Croatians put on Nazi uniforms and went and genocided Serbs. Then the international community tried to restore peace to the Balklands by creating Yugoslavia. The Croatians rebelled in 1991 starting yet another conflict in the region. Serbia, angry at the genocide and rebellion, then got its revenge by killing Croatians.

It seems to me Croatians moan a lot at Miloevic but in truth he was a great leader. He didnt take any nonsense of them and sent his forces in to kick butt. It always seems to be Croatia starting wars and killing other people. We find them at it again now with trying to surpress minority rights.

Well, it’s very simplified and wrong.
First, you don’t know about Croatian anti-fascist. Every village in this area has a small monument with names of anti-fascists killed in WWII and in this context I must mention they were all Croats.  

Genocided Serbs were very efficient genociders themselves, and quislings too.
Then, by the end of WWII, the British politicians insisted Yugoslavia is restored, because the first Yugoslavia was formed after WWI, in accordance to their needs (or what they perceived as their needs) to disperse Central Europe and seal a part of it into Eastern sphere of influence.
The same politicians insisted Serbs are kept as the ruling nation in the next Yugoslavia (first Yugoslavia had fake Karađorđević dynasty, invented by the British) and to achieve their dominance, the myths of their anti-fascism (that appeared no sooner than 1943) and genocidal nature of others was pushed in bizarrely violent fashion. But the communist rule was famous for bizarrely violent methods, it wasn’t exclusively Serbian fault.

After five decades of oppression, and after Milošević started openly turning ex-Yu into Greater Serbia, after he held rallies at which extremist chetniks were threatening non-Serbs with extermination, and after Serbian paramilitary started killing Croats, the war broke out.
Milošević was not a great leader. He was great psychopath and great coward who hated his own nation too, sending young Serbs to die for his megalomaniac phantasies.
He destroyed his own Serbia by pushing it into war they couldn’t win. Wars are not won by mythomania.

His forces probably wanted to kick butt, but I can tell you that since they had whole JNA resources at disposal (and commies were obsessed with accumulating weapons and goods) my grandma could kick more butt than they did, before their aggressor butt was kicked and kicked out of independent countries that used to form ex-Yugoslavia before Serbian egotripping made everyone else lose their patience. Not only Croats, not even Montenegrins wanted to stay with Serbia anymore in the end.

It would be nice if you’d research the topic if you are genuinely interested.
Or you can stick to “Croatia starting wars and killing people”. Fine. Don’t let facts get into your way. Stick to myth. Check under bed for Croats for all I care.

Who are “we”? Who finds me at it again? Did you even read my (lengthy but I hope comprehensible) posts?

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#29    Helen of Annoy

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 07:00 PM

View Postthe L, on 24 April 2013 - 06:43 PM, said:

Language ans script is living thing. It evolves.
I think that we evolve from Cyrillic once for all. Thanks to Serbs and their hegemony.

True, they evolve.
And even before Serbian hegemony, Latin script predominated in Croatian language. That is very certain and we have nothing to worry about that.
The timing and our balanced reactions must come from careful consideration of the situation and must be on the level expected from civilized people.
We are out and above Balkanska krčma.

Edited by Helen of Annoy, 24 April 2013 - 07:00 PM.

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#30    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 07:23 PM

View PostHelen of Annoy, on 24 April 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

1. First, you don’t know about Croatian anti-fascists. Every village in this area has a small monument with names of anti-fascists killed in WWII and in this context I must mention they were all Croats.  
2. The myths of their anti-fascism and genocidal nature of others was pushed in bizarrely violent fashion. But the communist rule was famous for bizarrely violent methods, it wasn’t exclusively Serbian fault.
3. After five decades of oppression, and after Milošević started openly turning ex-Yu into Greater Serbia, after he held rallies at which extremist chetniks were threatening non-Serbs with extermination, and after Serbian paramilitary started killing Croats, the war broke out.

1. I have no doubt some were against fascism and got killed for their resistance. However we both know the resistors were just a small percentage of the Croatian population.
2. The Serbs werent Nazis the Croatians were. Ustase is real, it happened, you know it happened and you're probably aware of your grandad playing his part in it. The reason why everyone knows about it isnt because it was 'pushed in bizarely violent fashion' its because genociding people is absolutely disgusting.
3. Do you think that would have still occured if Croatians hadnt genocided 100,000's of Serbs during WW2?

Croatia, Bosnia and Serbia need to learn that if you treat others well they treat you well. If you murder a load of them then when they become strong they come back and murder a load of you. Something tells me your people wont learn and give it 50 years we'll be back to the same problems in the Balklands.





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