67 replies to this topic

[Xpeople]

and then, on 14 January 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

Sorry, that's a couple of shades too crazy for me and I'm a pretty jaded individual.  I have NO doubt that a criminal amount of resources have been squandered due to fraud,corruption and waste but I believe our enemies are real...I hear them screaming for our heads (literally) quite regularly in print and other media.  And we live in a country where a disaffected private in the Army can share our dirty laundry and a few crimes with the world.  So how could such a monstrous coverup be viable over time?

You are in denial.  How can you say the enemy is real? When ask a basic question. you cannot get a straight answer.

[Q24]

and then, on 14 January 2012 - 04:47 AM, said:

So our government, in league with the "military industrial complex", created Al Qaeda  to use as a foil so that America would spend a trillion bucks fighting an imaginary enemy?

No, that is not how I see it at all.

The above is your conspiracy theory which, whilst on the right track, I think is constructed incorrectly.

I will stick to the facts in this thread: -

• Al Qaeda was created with involvement of the CIA to combat the Soviets.
  
• The Al Qaeda/CIA connection was maintained in some form after that operation.
  
• The CIA continued to use Al Qaeda and infiltrate further agents up to 2001.
  
• Most of the 9/11 hijackers were recent Al Qaeda recruits, not lifelong fanatics.
  
• U.S. elements portrayed Al Qaeda as a defined organization with bin Laden in command.
  
• … even though bin Laden coined Al Qaeda a Western term he did not feel representative of.
  
• … and bin Laden said the West would use him as an excuse to come for Afghanistan.
  
• The threat and actions of Al Qaeda have facilitated the pre-stated Neocon policy.
  
• … the very same faction which came to power in 2001.

I have italicized some words above so hopefully there can be no mistake.

Make of it what you will - but I would not support it in the way you suggested.

Edited by Q24, 15 January 2012 - 08:42 AM.

[Sthenno]

I think that Al Qaeda is basically an extremist version of the Occupy movement...
An essentially vague term that is given meaning by people's reactions to it... just as activists the world over have used the 'occupy' name as a byword for protests against all manner of social ills, I think the name 'Al Qaeda' has been adopted by many different groups, all with different agendas, all attracted by the fear and attention that that name generates.

[Xpeople]

This video is may help a lot.

[Q24]

Xpeople, on 16 January 2012 - 03:31 AM, said:

This video is may help a lot.

Thank you for that Xpeople.

The video is informative and explains what I mentioned about Jamal al-Fadl and the redefining of Al Qaeda on this thread.  For anyone wondering, it is not a ‘conspiracy video’ but from a mainstream media documentary – this is ‘must see’ viewing for anyone who wants to understand Al Qaeda.

Perhaps the most disturbing point is Donald Rumsfeld talking about bin Laden’s hidden underground bunker complex, which actually did not exist: “This is serious business and there’s not just one of those, there are many of those.”  The lying b******.  He lied during the Cold War, he lied about WMDs and he lied about Al Qaeda in-between.  It shows who the group are that promoted the Al Qaeda myth and wanted to fabricate an enemy for America to drive their militaristic foreign policy.

Al Qaeda as we know it, like the ‘War on Terror’, is a sham.

[Babe Ruth]

I think AQ exists, but the better question is: "who created it and who controls it?"

[Lion6969]

Xpeople, on 12 January 2012 - 02:30 AM, said:

Does anyone have evidence that Al-qaeda exist?  Please show me.

No! There is no organisation called al-Qaeda, it's a made up name by the USA which means the base. They associated this term during their reasoning to invade Afghanistan. The name added the connotation that Afghanistan is a terrorist base. It was in order to justify their unjust war. The group they really want is actually al ansar, meaning the Helpers. This is what bin Ladin and his crew set up, a group of mercenary jihadists, who go around helping Muslim nations stand up etc etc. Hence they called themselves the Helpers. Which also has historical links to the people of medina who helped muhammed the prophet, they too were called the Helpers.

[and then]

Muhammed the "prophet" was a vicious, murdering megalomaniac whose twisted ideas of power and subjugation have given rise to an equally vicious group of thugs today.  Their time came, went and has come 'round again but there will be no more Black Flags or final solutions.  Their barbarism will hold sway until the malignant dream of political correctness is dispelled.  Then they will be destroyed or at least put back in a bottle like the evil djinn who gives them their power.  They personify evil and should be shown no mercy.

[FurthurBB]

and then, on 12 January 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

The whole discussion seems a bit too legalistic.  Is the idea to cast America as somehow responsible for creating AQ and thus being responsible for our own injury?  The whole WORLD wants to gut us like a fish and we hardly created "IT".  In answer to all those who delight in seeing America abused I say : Bring the pain!  Even in the decline of our power we are superior to everything that came before.  And when we are gone you can fight over the crumbs.

The US always seems to create its own enemies.  Now, I am sure as a country we are not the only ones, but I wish we would stop making the same mistakes over and over again.  The whole world thing is imagined, sorry.

[FurthurBB]

Sthenno, on 15 January 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

I think that Al Qaeda is basically an extremist version of the Occupy movement...
An essentially vague term that is given meaning by people's reactions to it... just as activists the world over have used the 'occupy' name as a byword for protests against all manner of social ills, I think the name 'Al Qaeda' has been adopted by many different groups, all with different agendas, all attracted by the fear and attention that that name generates.

I definitely agree with this.

[FurthurBB]

and then, on 22 January 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

Muhammed the "prophet" was a vicious, murdering megalomaniac whose twisted ideas of power and subjugation have given rise to an equally vicious group of thugs today.  Their time came, went and has come 'round again but there will be no more Black Flags or final solutions.  Their barbarism will hold sway until the malignant dream of political correctness is dispelled.  Then they will be destroyed or at least put back in a bottle like the evil djinn who gives them their power.  They personify evil and should be shown no mercy.

This is way too many shades of crazy for me.

[Tesla II]

Xpeople, on 14 January 2012 - 06:49 AM, said:

Is there anything that disagree with that?  Most of the trillions of dollars did not go into actual fighting since there was little to fight but to nation building.

And now you got the answer to what happened on 9/11 pure show to keep the warmachine going.

[ninjadude]

and then, on 22 January 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

Muhammed the "prophet" was a vicious, murdering megalomaniac whose twisted ideas of power and subjugation have given rise to an equally vicious group of thugs today.  Their time came, went and has come 'round again but there will be no more Black Flags or final solutions.  Their barbarism will hold sway until the malignant dream of political correctness is dispelled.  Then they will be destroyed or at least put back in a bottle like the evil djinn who gives them their power.  They personify evil and should be shown no mercy.

A clear and concise proof of your Islamaphobia.

Edited by ninjadude, 22 January 2012 - 09:41 PM.

[thedutchiedutch]

Xpeople, on 12 January 2012 - 02:30 AM, said:

Does anyone have evidence that Al-qaeda exist?  Please show me.

They do. Here is their website

Edited by thedutchiedutch, 22 January 2012 - 09:47 PM.

[Rlyeh]

and then, on 22 January 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

Muhammed the "prophet" was a vicious, murdering megalomaniac

So really he wasn't that different to Moses.