77 replies to this topic

[1963]

UFO Frustration Rant.
Hi all!

Am I alone in being at the point of giving up the search for video-validation of the ETH?...'if I click on another link that proclaims .. "Real UFO Caught On Film", and it turns out to be some innocuous fuzzy lights filmed from zillions of miles away, that could just as easily be a balloon, aeroplane or intentional hoax' ..
I mean...how many of these high altitude 'Orbs' can we view without yawning?..and how many distant 'Flashing Lights' are likely to be anything less prosaic than aeroplane lights?
And don't get me started on the recent advent of the dreaded'Chinese Lanterns'!!
...And I could rant for days about these awful 'Captured-Alien..dead or alive' vid's!
And there are only 'very few' out of the myriad Alien-Abduction claims that are worthy of consideration!

This is just a handful of examples of the irksome side of amateur-ufology...there are many more of these diseases that infest the field !.. With the biggest of these 'Cancers' being the dishonest people that for various reasons intend to deceive the innocent students of this very real world-wide phenomena!.. Hoaxers,Liars, Snake-oil-salesmen,Charlatans or whatever you prefer to call them, and for whatever reason they practise their art...Money,Fame,Egotism etc..They are the ones that are eating away at the legitimacy of this field of study and trivialising the honest endeavours of the truly studious figures, past and present that have devoted their lives to shedding light on this enigma in a solemn and honourable manner!...People such as MacDonald,Hynek,Haines,Maccabbee,Friedman, Vallee,etc!

And then there's the credulous factor!..the supporters of the likes of Meier,Dean,Adamski,Vesco,Von Daniken etc , that takes the subject down to well below the level of a snakes testicles, for which the mere mentioning of their names should bring with it a life-time ban from serious UFO/ET forums for the transgressors!

OK!...Rant over!..it's bedtime, goodnight all.

Cheers.

[Night Walker]

Perhaps that IS the phenomenon – a human-centred mystery as complex and confounding as the people who engage in it…

[booNyzarC]

Nah, you aren't alone in that 1963.  Not at all.

I gave up the search long ago.  I've wasted countless hours wading through ridiculous video after ridiculous video.  And then I realized that if something truly groundbreaking ever did surface...  I'm sure it will come out and catch my attention.  I'm done chasing after ET.

Cheers.

[ColoradoParanormal]

1963 - This is the same for all the topics here. Ghosts, Cryptids, etc. 'tis the nature of the beast.

[psyche101]

What you always kick skeptics for doing. Must be quite an epiphany.

[badeskov]

1963, on 13 April 2012 - 01:13 AM, said:

UFO Frustration Rant.
Hi all!

Am I alone in being at the point of giving up the search for video-validation of the ETH?...'if I click on another link that proclaims .. "Real UFO Caught On Film", and it turns out to be some innocuous fuzzy lights filmed from zillions of miles away, that could just as easily be a balloon, aeroplane or intentional hoax' ..
I mean...how many of these high altitude 'Orbs' can we view without yawning?..and how many distant 'Flashing Lights' are likely to be anything less prosaic than aeroplane lights?
And don't get me started on the recent advent of the dreaded'Chinese Lanterns'!!
...And I could rant for days about these awful 'Captured-Alien..dead or alive' vid's!
And there are only 'very few' out of the myriad Alien-Abduction claims that are worthy of consideration!

This is just a handful of examples of the irksome side of amateur-ufology...there are many more of these diseases that infest the field !.. With the biggest of these 'Cancers' being the dishonest people that for various reasons intend to deceive the innocent students of this very real world-wide phenomena!.. Hoaxers,Liars, Snake-oil-salesmen,Charlatans or whatever you prefer to call them, and for whatever reason they practise their art...Money,Fame,Egotism etc..They are the ones that are eating away at the legitimacy of this field of study and trivialising the honest endeavours of the truly studious figures, past and present that have devoted their lives to shedding light on this enigma in a solemn and honourable manner!...People such as MacDonald,Hynek,Haines,Maccabbee,Friedman, Vallee,etc!

And then there's the credulous factor!..the supporters of the likes of Meier,Dean,Adamski,Vesco,Von Daniken etc , that takes the subject down to well below the level of a snakes testicles, for which the mere mentioning of their names should bring with it a life-time ban from serious UFO/ET forums for the transgressors!

OK!...Rant over!..it's bedtime, goodnight all.

Cheers.

It's selling a dream and Mr. Friedman was one of those fueling the imagination of many by perpetuating fanciful tales on his (rather unremarkable) reputation as a nuclear physicist - so I cannot agree with him being in the company you mention. But I certainly agree that it is a mess and the reason is the total lack of common sense and critical thinking, sacrificed on the altar of the exotic and exiting. Sadly, it never works that way - real science typically prevails, however boring it might seem to some.

Cheers,
Badeskov

Edited for missing word.

Edited by badeskov, 13 April 2012 - 04:09 AM.

[Lilly]

1963, just imagine how frustrated you'd be if you had actually seen a UFO, but couldn't (even 35 years later) manage to figure out exactly *what* it was you'd seen! Believe me, all the silliness and faking would really irritate the hell out of you at that point.  

[1963]

Thanks for the replies guys!   (mostly..)

The truth is that contrary to popular belief, I have always viewed these YouTube offerings with a tightly-sceptical eye,(though perfect.. I am not!) thus the reason that I rarely opine that any of them are anything more than 'interesting'..and have even on occasion attempted to "Debunk" some of the more serious deceptive-efforts (Skinny-Bob etc.)
And yesterday was one of my rare 'me-days', and I had a few hours to troll the net,(sure to find the smoking-gun     )...but sadly, after about four hours of dead-ends and YouTube dross,in the realisation that I had wasted this valuable time,and tiredness, my severe disappointment caused the rant!
And it worked...I slept better after it!  

Cheers.

[Paul Rubino]

1963, on 13 April 2012 - 01:13 AM, said:

UFO Frustration Rant.
Hi all!

Am I alone in being at the point of giving up the search for video-validation of the ETH?...

1963, join the crowd.

I was such a believer i ran a paranormal web site for years (supernaturalstuff.com). One day the switch just went "click" in my head and i said "ENOUGH!"

In this day and age of digital technology in the hands of millions of people everywhere there is no reason why i should still be deciphering grainy dots of lights in the sky for UFO evidence, vague shadows in a line of trees for evidence of big foot ("That's not a log! That's big foot!") or listening closely to hours of audio static for signs of communications from the dead.

Then you follow the money trails and you begin to see UFOs, ghosts, big foot, etc., are big business. Lots of people and communities are financially dependent on people believing these things. What do we expect the business people of Roswell, NM to say when we ask if a UFO really crashed in 1947? The town has restaurants, bars, souvenir shops, museums - an entire tourist trade - that would crumble if somebody ever popped the Roswell bubble and people stopped believing.

Stanton Friedman is huge in the UFO community. He stopped doing nuclear physics around 1970. He's been on the UFO gravy train ever since. Do you think he has a financial interest in people believing in UFOs? Do you think he would ever admit his pay checks (documentaries, lectures, books) are based on inconclusive evidence?

Of course we can get into all the paranormal TV shows and documentaries. All of them at some point have been caught faking or misrepresenting their "evidence", and why not? Huge ratings equals huge profits.

Vague evidence and second hand accounts were all fine and dandy in the 1970s, 80s and 90s. But in this day and age, with digital video, audio and picture devices in the hands of tens of millions of people, i demand more conclusive evidence.

The bottom line is, the quality and quantity of paranormal evidence hasn't improved with the quality and quantity of evidence gathering equipment. That's a problem - not for me, for those bearing the burden of paranormal proof.

<- NOT!

Edited by Paul Rubino, 13 April 2012 - 04:50 PM.

[Lilly]

Paul Rubino, on 13 April 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

....Milton Freidman is huge in the UFO community. He stopped doing nuclear physics around 1970....

I think you mean Stanton Friedman. I'm pretty sure that Milton Friedman is an economist.

[Paul Rubino]

Lilly, on 13 April 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

I think you mean Stanton Friedman. I'm pretty sure that Milton Friedman is an economist.

LOL! How embarrassing! LOL! I should correct that ...  

[1963]

Paul Rubino, on 13 April 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

1963, join the crowd.

I was such a believer i ran a paranormal web site for years (supernaturalstuff.com). One day the switch just went "click" in my head and i said "ENOUGH!"

In this day and age of digital technology in the hands of millions of people everywhere there is no reason why i should still be deciphering grainy dots of lights in the sky for UFO evidence, vague shadows in a line of trees for evidence of big foot ("That's not a log! That's big foot!") or listening closely to hours of audio static for signs of communications from the dead.

Then you follow the money trails and you begin to see UFOs, ghosts, big foot, etc., are big business. Lots of people and communities are financially dependent on people believing these things. What do we expect the business people of Roswell, NM to say when we ask if a UFO really crashed in 1947? The town has restaurants, bars, souvenir shops, museums - an entire tourist trade - that would crumble if somebody ever popped the Roswell bubble and people stopped believing.

Milton Freidman is huge in the UFO community. He stopped doing nuclear physics around 1970. He's been on the UFO gravy train ever since. Do you think he has a financial interest in people believing in UFOs? Do you think he would ever admit his pay checks (documentaries, lectures, books) are based on inconclusive evidence?

Of course we can get into all the paranormal TV shows and documentaries. All of them at some point have been caught faking or misrepresenting their "evidence", and why not? Huge ratings equals huge profits.

Vague evidence and second hand accounts were all fine and dandy in the 1970s, 80s and 90s. But in this day and age, with digital video, audio and picture devices in the hands of tens of millions of people, i demand more conclusive evidence.

The bottom line is, the quality and quantity of paranormal evidence hasn't improved with the quality and quantity of evidence gathering equipment. That's a problem - not for me, for those bearing the burden of paranormal proof.

<- NOT!

Hi Paul!
Thanks for the interesting summary of your position.  
And I would have to agree with the bulk of your content.
But to single out Stanton Friedman as others on this forum do is what I would call 'going for the easy target'!
For me, Stanton is an honourable man who speaks from the hip.
Infallible he is not, nor 'to the best of my knowledge' has he ever claimed to be!
Of course he doesn't know everything and would probably be the first to admit that. And so he (as everyone has to at some point in life) takes the odd leap of faith...putting two and two together to reach a conclusion. And it is up to one's self to assess whether Stanton's mathematics are probable...and in most cases, I believe that he is probably correct!
He is no different to any of the other professional ufologists in this method. (Professional being the operative word)..and this is due to the fact that like the other aforementioned respected ufologists he is working with limited materials!(ie..partial data)
And for the other (self-proclaimed-scientific folk)that attack Stanton's credentials and past scientific career, and then rounding on him for his eventual  profession-choice smacks of nothing more than a limp effort at character assassination and a condescending way of appearing superior in order to belittle and negate the man's obvious intelligence and grasp of the scientific   critical thinking that is required to be taken seriously in the very real field of professional ufology!

And for the record Paul...I respect your opinion that nothing Extraterrestrial happened at the 1947 Roswell Incident, and agree that it has been an almighty cash-cow for many people over the last thirty years or so...but I still feel that there is enough anecdotal and circumstantial evidence  to make me lean toward it being a 'convoluted but compelling' nod toward an ET mishap!

But of course this is just my opinion.  

Cheers buddy.

[itsnotoutthere]

The lack of any credible evidence & proliferation of third rate & fake ufo vids on youtube would tend to suggest something rather obvious wouldn't it?

[Chrlzs]

Quote

The bottom line is, the quality and quantity of paranormal evidence hasn't improved with the quality and quantity of evidence gathering equipment.

That, if nothing else, is the killer for me.

In the developed world, almost everyone has a (admittedly very basic) camera nearby, and for less than $200 you can buy a very capable camera..  We have a huge communications network (the Interweb..) connecting billions of people and allowing the sharing of information and techniques, and allowing high level collaborative analysis, discussion and debate..  And from all this, the number of even vaguely convincing sightings is, if anything, declining..  Hence the enthusiasm at looking at the 'old favorites' in depth and applying new techniques.  But it seems that even there, the number of 'possibles' is going down, not up.

Then we have the new age of image manipulation where hoaxes are now very common and we have to apply fairly intense scrutiny to eliminate those.

So what do we learn from all this?  First up, I think that in many ways the new ability to communicate is great..  and when added to the much greater scrutiny that is being applied to sightings and the associated stories *because* of the ease of hoaxing..  We are hopefully becoming a bit more grown up in our ability to spot the Meiers and Maussans quickly..

Secondly, I believe we are thinking more laterally about motivations and understanding the incredibly complex nature of human perception to a much better level.  Our minds are wonderfully clever at twisting our perceptions and recollections - it doesn't mean we are lying or delusional, it's simply what we believe..

Finally, I think the only thing more awe-inspiring than the possibility of alien visit, is the overwhelming immensity of the universe and the seemingly impervious barriers that may be stopping us from ever detecting what may be teeming bazillions of aliens.  Or the even more wild and weird possibility that perhaps we are the only ones..

I think there is so much to marvel at, to admire, to try to understand in our Universe - do we really need more?  The current lack of aliens doesn't frustrate me in the slightest...  

[preacherman76]

I feel ya. It is very frustrating at times. Especialy for folks like myself who have witnessed a real UFO. Why there isnt many good quailty video's on the subject I just dont understand.