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The nature of astrology

Posted by Mikko-kun , 12 May 2012 · 710 views

If you want to understand what potentials astrology has, you should study it's core function until you understand it. The core is, that planets dont move us, they dont cause us to act in a certain way. They and us live under the same vibes, synchronized under the same cosmic radiowaves. If you're new to astrology and interested in it, I wholeheartedly recommend studying more than just the western branch of it, and keeping your mind open. Astrology's nature and core is about subjective observations of human (and everything else's) characteristics. I think we all can to some extent agree when some person has more egoistic side than the rest of your acquintances have, or when someone is inherently interested in the occult, or emotional. But, every single human being who hasn't born with serious brain damage, or even them, has potential for great feelings, logic, intuition, sensation and every type of sixth sensing. I dont say this to assure myself or anyone else, but in order for people who read this to seek out their potential. I do that through astrology, and through many other things. Astrology is good for the addictive me, because I know I wont be any good in it if I stay all day reading about astrology and not living my life. It's the whole spectrum of your personal, subjective, objective-subjective life-experiences that you base your astrology readings on. The more of that you have, the better your astrology is. Because astrology is more about psychology than looking at the stars, the stars are there to provide us with standing symbols of a very physical form for the map of our inner psyche we draw. Moon, for example, is the symbol of our needs, addictions, our body's basic needs, the needs over which we build our psyche to. Moon alone is just that, just as the needs alone are just what they are, but combining them and placing them in different areas of your life, or especially when you're able to reflect them with your inner eyes is where it gets interesting.

Astrology is a tool through which one can realise better one's inner workings, not a tool for solving problems. Astrology wont solve your addiction, relationship, work, family or any other issues for you. It can only support you in doing this if you open a door for it. It may help you see them in a different light, in a light which they may be easier to deal with. Having a new perspective or more comprehension of what you're dealing with may help you a great deal. But it will never force your hand, the decision always lies under your juristiction, no matter the strings of influence. From this you can probably guess why many people dont turn out to be how their birth horoscopes say they should be, and I'm not talking about the sun sign only but the whole birth chart including all planets and exact birthttime. What you are and how you act are bound to each other, but you can always act against your insight, against your logic, against your emotions, against what your inner senses tell you. Or you can purposely sidetrack yourself. That isn't necessarily the same as lying to yourself, it's just how you play it on the outside. You recognising and accepting the inner you is bound to this, but still a different story.

Shamanistic astrology talks about intent. What does that word, intent, mean to you? I see it as being drawn towards something. The intent may have logical, emotional, sensational or intuitional reasons it follows, but it's still about following your inner instincts. To intend to do something, to follow the path you are drawn to. In shamanistic astrology it's about how far have you followed your intents to. I see astrology like this, something that deals with what you are drawn towards. This is just my hypothesis, but I think great actors can become their acting character in this manner, by adopting the intent of their acting role as well as possible. If they're too good at this, and have problems with their "real" persona", or feel insecure about themselves or about how they are etc, this may make them question whether they're in touch with their real self, and be afraid of losing their inner selves. I dont think this is the case however, even if they feel this way, because it's more about how far have you lived out your intents than how far have you not lived them compared to other areas. Dont count the millions you dont have, but count the pennies you have and invest them well.

I dont expect anyone to realise that astrology has potential to work well just by reading this, but if you read similiar articles written by good astrologists, I'm sure your scepticism will give room for real astrology. If you ask me, astrology should have been named the "psycho-vibe science", because it deals with just that. And no, not psychopath-vibe but psycho-vibe, like psychology.

What are your thoughts about this video?

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Uhh... I'll comment more after watching the whole video, meanwhile I just nitpick what was said there during the first minute. First, "planets influence our future". They dont, but the same cosmic radiation or whatever it is, probably the thing that resonates from big bang or creation if you ask me (I dont fully believe in either). That's at least the current belief of most prominent astrologists of our era.

Also, you should separate the idea that "something will happen When planets are in certain places" from "the energy makes making this happen feel more troublesome, and the other thing easier when planets are in certain places". The latter is more correct according to the current astrological view of prominent astrologists. They dont study what will or has happened, even though that too can be done, but what is more prominent to happen, or what kind of things in which areas of life, love life, psyche, everything. Since those energies are around everywhere you go, it's just natural that you translate them to everywhere if you got a vision to do that.

The core line between prominent astrologists and what the first minute of this video says, the core difference is that astrology doesn't predict events but the energies surrounding them. I'll talk more once I get to watch the whole thing, thanks for posting it. Seems really interesting. :)
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Looks like I wrote an essay answer, this all has been boiling in my mind since I started studying astrology and I'll just take the opportunity to put it all here. It's really a good review for me about what I've learned about the core of astrology, and you gave me something very valuable through this video, so however I may put my words here, remember that I'm still grateful for you. I believe I've managed to debunk everything in this video, except for one last bit... that I just deflected.

Edited a few parts.

I commented what was said exactly in the first minute, and here's the rest. The history part is interesting, but there was said that astrology hasn't developed since the time of it's first "real" development, which is said to be somewhere around 100AD or so, didn't catch the real number but that's not important. Because they talk about just western astrology there. Vedic astrology, ancient indian astrology, is probably far older, so is shamanistic astrology from which I believe our astrological system has born. Also chinese astrology, I dont know how old it is but it is ages-old too. That's just what was to be corrected about the claims of history of astrology. I know very little about astrology's history, but the fact that I can easily correct these things shows that this video wasn't made by a person who truly knows astrology. If I dont know much about laws of physics I dont pretend to be the next einstein and say "hey, you got it all wrong, this is pseudo-science".

So, western astrology has developed leaps since 100ad. Many astrologists use uranus, neptune and pluto, and many do cross-checking between western, chinese and vedic astrology and cross-checking between house systems. There's karmic astrology, celtic (druid) astrology, african horoscopes, mayan horoscopes, egyptian ones... I think our western system is very finely tuned and well-researched, you can find at least 100 000 subjective research chart-story combinations in western style from lilith alone, which isn't considered as easy to read from as pluto, neptune and especially uranus which was found around 1600-1700 or so, and it has had a role in astrology since. It's true that only a bit over a hundred year ago the western astrology started to accept at large that it wasn't planets that move us, but the same energy or radiation or whatever. Even if it may seem like irrelevant, accepting it (at the very least as a possibility) was similiar to what Einstein did to physics as a science, because it made astrologers look deeper into where their readings come from and question their readings. It's very, very important to be humble and accept the uncertainty if you're an astrologist, you're always steps behind if you dont.

Starting from around 2 minutes in the video he says astrologers are off one whole sign. Yes, that's true. He got that part right. But I wonder if he knew that astrologers also know it. It's very basic knowledge of astrology when you start reading. It's a cycle that resets every 26000 years, moving sign every 2000 years. And of course it's gradual, like I believe everything else in astrology is. What matters is if the descriptions of signs are up to date. What matters is do the signs live to their descriptions or is there something off. But you can't judge a person from his or her sun sign alone, that's not the whole picture of you. If you look at the person as a whole, or anything as a whole in terms of astrology, you look at the whole birth chart. You look at where each planet was in that exact moment and deduce the energies from their relations. You draw a simple picture from a mess of planets and stars. Or not-so-simple, if you like. The whole picture doesn't change even if the signs move, so moving signs doesn't make astrology invalid. It just means that astrologers have to re-evaluate the signs in regular intervals.
If the signs' descriptions aren't affected from the wobble-effect, then it means that the resonance from which astrologers derive their reading is static in that sense. If wobble-effect affects the signs' descriptions fully, then the resonance is "alive" in that sense. If certain parts of signs' descriptions, like progressed chart sign descriptions, change with the wobble-effect, then that part changes. Astrologers just have to observe whatever is the case and record and research. You've missed the point if you think astrologers dont care about it in general.
And forgot to mention before editing, but at least vedic astrology and I think also chinese astrology use the stars themselves, not binding the signs on dates like we do, so this isnt a concern for them so much.

Oh perfect, they took examples from newspapers where there's sun sign horoscopes for certain dates, that's the most amateurish thing you can do in astrology. This video is a perfect example of how the sun sign is so overvalued and overknown compared to the whole astrology in modern society if you're not actually familiar with astrology. The error in this video is critizising the beliefs of those who believe their sun signs tell everything about them and claiming that astrology is debunked because of them. Haha... I'm sorry, I'm not usually arrogant or laugh when someone is wrong, but when you take the joke this far, what can I do. It's a good wake-up for those who believe sun sign tells them everything of themselves, I agree, but a really baseless video up to this point, three minutes. Sun sign is just one sign of the many, in your birth chart, and every sign is believed to have influence in your life, in more than one manner. Some may have less, some more, and the area where they influence also differs, as their connection, even though the basic connections are believed to work the same way for everyone. Same rules and settings for everyone in western astrology at least, but the planets and birthtime and -place make it a fine-tuned scramble.

The funny thing about the claim that "that horoscope would apply to anyone, that why astrology is bull" is, that it's true, except for the last part. And that's for the same reason as mentioned above, about everyone having every sign in their birth chart and so on. Horoscopes are made to apply for everyone, but everyone has a different natal chart. Every ten minutes count, every 50 kilometers or less count. They can make grand differences in your chart, because of house positioning and which planet falls to which house, and where your two grand axises are. Basic principles do apply to everyone.

And as a sidenote to the saying during somewhere in the 1st minute in the video that astrology is arrogant and human-centered, that's the history in western astrology maybe, but these days astrology is applied literally everywhere. In gardening, in positioning plants. I find this very interesting and I intend to study astrological gardening, since I'm already familiar with permaculture's theory and love plants. Laugh if you want, but I think I could waste my time in numerous of less productive ways, even if I it turns out I didn't make my plants any more vital nor any more money with it. It's okay, because it's what I like to do.
You can start a branch of astrology of your own and do research based on that branch. One good use would be for those in the fashion business who decide which clothes which model is going to wear, by choosing the model's lucky color and the general or main point color of the cloth be matching.

The test about reading a detailed horoscope astrologist made about you... the thing is, many people don't live out their full potential. Western astrology doesn't concentrate fully on the VERY spiritual side, just the intuition-feelings-sensation-logic part, the part where you use those four. Astrology can read your potentials, but they're just that, potentials. Not everyone live their potential out, because of many things. Pressure of surroundings is a very common reason. Also western astrology's main focus is in things that everyone have, more or less. That why horoscopes can be made to sound like "oh yes, this definetely tells about me". It's likely that every fourth person you ask them about, at least, will tell that "oh yes, it's definetely about me". But if you take the whole chart and give a 25-page long report done by a PROMINENT ASTROLOGIST, not just any astrologist you happen to find, from my experience you get something worth your time, and you wont get the result you got in that experiment. I can say this because I've discussed about these things alot, I had many suspicions, I've red many descriptions of each signs and found out what I could about them, about their core essences and how they're bound to manifest if you live them out, or how they manifest if you repress them, or try to ignore them.

And since your horoscope isn't bound to just one sign, but every sign, that why also those two tests on the video went like that. Every sign in the sky has it's part in your birth chart, in everyone's birth chart, in everything's birth chart. The difference is, which sign was the one you were born under, and also which planets were in which signs at your birthtime. Both of those have also an interconnection which is crucial, a core of astrology in more than one style. It's not so much the sign itself, but their connections and emphasis of them which astrologers really put weight on. Of course the sign is important but with sign only you leave everything else out.

Have you watched videos of creationists and their church activity or so? I have, I know they use similiar methods when they explain how the evolution theory is flawed. The best evolutionist I've debated against anchored his belief in real world through a (supposedly know) genetics researcher and his finding about the nature of genetic mutations in general. It's pretty well done research if you ask me, and bases one's belief on a claim of how things are, not on a claim of how things are not.
Many creationists use the bible as an all-mighty evidence against everything else, and they hide behind the loud-mouth among them. Many give incorrect, irrelevant, twisted or usually just not enough or not the main point of evolution theory and why it's really believed to be the correct theory among many. This video makes the same mistake.

Back to that second experiment, the capricorn weekly reading or what it was. To sum it up simply as "everyone agreed" is misleading. Very much so. Everyone has a capricorn in their chart, in some house, whether there's planets or not in there, at least 40% chance there's at least one more known planet to astrology. And most people do spot both bad and good vibes around them, both arguments and happy times, every month, even every week. And if you ask them about it, most can relate to it because of that.
The difference comes when you look at the timeline as a whole and can separate basic things like which part in your life you should put more or less focus on, where you get your energy from, what you may have shut in from yourself (most people actually do this to some extent, even I, and that why I know it's not always easy to get over those things, especially if you can't find the knot that's been left unfolded). True astrology is first psychology, then telling about what kind of energies you may encounter, and I'd trust only the most competent astrologers to reliably tell about spesific events. Why do I use astrology then, why do I study it? Because I dont rely on spesific events in my life, but on energies and vibes. I'm not really a hippie nor a looney in that manner, everyone relies on their emotions and on the vibes their mental receiver receives from other people, to some extent. Consciously or unconsciously, most do it consciously I believe. I study astrology because I think I've spotted connections that exist between stars and us. The connection may be that energy, I dont know really what it is or where it comes from but I think everyone senses it everywhere.

About twins. I've not red much about transits so can't comment fully about them, but transits have an effect on how the energies come for you. Energies are not the same thing as events, they just make things harder or easier or more or less interesting, so on, very crude generalisations I said here about them. And astrology isnt so much about foretelling events, but about energies and it's used to give you better psychological picture of yourself and to find your potentials, your true drives, what truly moves you and how you can truly move things, in the very real world. How you can live in peace with yourself, with all your aspects. And with other people and other things. And even with the realm of spirits and dreams, even though many astrologers wont probably agree with me on that last one. Living in peace with your surroundings doesn't have to mean a life without fights, conflicts, troubles and so on, but a life where you can keep steering through them without losing your way, and where you can draw strength and new sides of your self even from them.
So... events in life aren't the same for twins if they dont go to same places at the same time all the time. This is where they grow separated, and this separation becomes more visible the more events these twins experience without each other. Adult twins may be very different for this reason. Change of environment is a major change, also in astrological sense if you move more than 100km to any direction. If one twin stays in a large city and other moves to a not-as-large city, or anything like that, that's already a major change. Experiences of life may modify our behaviour, and they may trigger or give us treason to let a potential of ourselves be triggered, or trained more.
The thing with astrology is, it tells about potentials and just that. It doesn't tell how much you've trained yourself in which areas of life, only you and those who really know you can tell that. This is why you may be the opposite of your horoscope description. But when this is the case, the person usually finds that he or she could be something more. Astrology deals with very subjective things too, that why everyone can find themselves in many horoscopes. People who have a horoscope of a "strong person" may not have lived out their potential, and people with "weaker" horoscope may live so much of their potential that they easily outshine the potentially strong person. (even though I and most astrologers dont believe in such thing as stronger and weaker horoscopes, but I take this as a good example nonetheless)

And about ophiudus, the lucky serpent or whatever, the 13th sign. There's a history behind the 12 signs that begun in the ancient Babylon if I remember right, where there was decided that despite of seeing the 13th constellation, they decided to give twelve signs out. Twelve is so much more convenient than 13, and you know what the stars are used for instead of other time measurements? To measure how the universe moves. The movement of the universe is the same no matter which constellation or planet we follow it from, it's just us who might have difficulty in following that movement. I think this is a base idea of why there's allowed to be static signs in western astrology, 12 static signs.
12 signs are easily divided in to 3,4 and 2. There's many dividences done because the number is 12. Try dividing 13. It's out of convenience. The basic dividence of two is good because in astrology it's often representing two opposites. How can you say that something is insecure, if you dont know what secure is? How can you say someone is outgoing, when you dont know what introvert is? How can you say someone is down-to-earth when you dont know what head-in-the-cloud is? This is why. Three, I dont know so much about three even though I've given it a lot of though. I have a hard time picturing one of the aspects of that particular three, and especially relating it to the cycle or whole relation of those three in some senses. Two is much easier a dividence, four makes things more complicated, they're only simple if you either master them or ignore part of them. And mastering comes with knowing many pitfalls.

You know, I can't tell you how grateful I am for you to give me this video. I know I could had found it by myself, but you gave me a reason to reply to it in this manner by posting it here spesifically, and I accepted it and found out that my path with astrology should indeed continue for now. Thanks to you I've learned more about how you might be able to foretell even events from astrology. And I dont think that foretelling events is even important. More important is finding the path in life you feel more satisfied with, and that's my main focus with astrology. I think karma has a strong, unseparable bond with that path. I use astrology to break my own mental knots that are waiting to be untied, like fears and such.

If you want to debunk the sun sign astrology, this is definetely a good video for that. But if you want to debunk real astrology, you got years of work ahead of you if this is all you can do. At around 8:05 or so in the video was the best part, asking about what makes the astrology really tick. It's a very good question. If you're a physic and an atheist, you'd probably say the after-resonance of big bang, it affects us all. If you're a creationist, you'd say the creation's after-resonance. I think it's some after-resonance, or vibration of sort that's in everything. I dont know what it is, but hey, have those physics scientists yet discovered every secret metaphysics has to offer, and how would they really know? A good point in that sense would be when you can build a human brain from scratch. Just because you can see the atom doesn't mean you know everything about it, does it? If you can build a human brain from lifeless things, you ought to know by then how it works if you get it to work from those parts. Maybe astrology is just really a brain-science, nothing more, nothing less. But then again, maybe not. Showing astrologers wrong will take much more than big physic scientist names, sorry. You know the astrologers with a good head on their shoulders would had quit by now if someone managed to show them their error. All people have done is shown them points of adjustment, given them new views, like this video gave to me too. It's good, but the video should be named "debunking sun sign-only astrology" or something like that.
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