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Atheism - any contradictions or 'problems'?


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#166    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:06 PM

View PostCrikey, on 02 February 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

The bottom line is that it's your call whether to believe the Bible or not!
It consists of 66 books listing human close encounters with offworld beings, surely that would interest any open-minded human?
Jesus said -
"I'll tell you things hidden since the creation of the world" (Matt 13:35)

The Atheists Bible by comparison consists of nothing but blank pages .. ;)

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#167    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:14 PM

View PostCrikey, on 02 February 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

But what was the story behind the vid, maybe she came home and found it full of druggies, satanists and perverts and was just throwing them out to protect her daughter like any good Christian mom would?

Having seen this woman and can tell she was over reacting  ( cuz I saw the show long time ago )  I think she should be the new face  of Christianity..  A massive poster of her, eyes popping out with rage flashing those teeth..  With her yelling -  ITS SO DARK SIDED   Tarot cards and Buddha  AAHHH  !!     Her kids looked spooked.. lol

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#168    Crikey

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:28 PM

Crikey said- "books about Elvis.."

View PostSean93, on 02 February 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

They conflict in accuracy I'll have you know.

Prove it..:)


#169    Crikey

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:38 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 02 February 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

..your accusation of Buddha being a satanist was just as ridiculous..

I never said Buddha went out sacrificing sheep and chickens like satanists do, I simply said most Buddhist teachings are satanic.
For example-
"No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may"-Buddha
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without"-Buddha

See, Buddhism teaches us to look within ourselves for happiness and that we don't need Jesus or anybody else.
Ha ha, we humans are far from perfect, so looking within ourselves for the truth is a dead end..:)


#170    Rlyeh

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:43 PM

View PostCrikey, on 02 February 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

I never said Buddha went out sacrificing sheep and chickens like satanists do, I simply said most Buddhist teachings are satanic.
For example-
"No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may"-Buddha
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without"-Buddha
Nothing to do with satan, so like I said, ridiculous.

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See, Buddhism teaches us to look within ourselves for happiness and that we don't need Jesus or anybody else.
Ha ha, we humans are far from perfect, so looking within ourselves for the truth is a dead end.. :)
But when imperfect humans start speaking of dead god men, you're sold.


#171    Crikey

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:51 PM

Crikey said- The Atheists Bible by comparison consists of nothing but blank pages

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 02 February 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

Because they can lead good lives without a manual to tell you how?

It goes further than that; the Bible is a 'Spiritual Survival Manual' that us how to tap into The Force that fills the universe and get feelgood downloads from it, think of it as a Power Boost..:)
For example in Bear Grylls Foreign Legion training show, recruits could choose one precious item from their belongings, and he chose his Bible-

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#172    Sean93

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 06:02 PM

View PostCrikey, on 02 February 2013 - 05:28 PM, said:

Crikey said- "books about Elvis.."



Prove it.. :)

Well the only way I would be able to do that would be to recommend you some books but by default, we all know that most if not all published literature has inaccuracies and even more so if multiple books are written on the same topic and by different authors. How many science papers for example do you think are now defunct thanks to new findings? The truth can change the consensus.

There is a cult of Elvis you know, with 12 apostles who claims that Elvis rose from the dead and came to them http://www.uncoveror.com/elvites.htm This is literature on Elvis too and cannot be proven wrong despite the fact that it's most likely bull****. The burden of proof can so easily be thrown around like a hot potato.

Edited by Sean93, 02 February 2013 - 06:06 PM.

"Be peaceful, be courteous, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery."

“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.”

#173    Crikey

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 06:07 PM

View PostSean93, on 02 February 2013 - 06:02 PM, said:

There is a cult of Elvis you know, with 12 apostles who claims that Elvis rose from the dead and came to them..

You got it mate, he was captured on this google street view shot a couple of years ago rocking outside 'The Caff' in Torquay, England..:)

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#174    Sean93

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 06:13 PM

View PostCrikey, on 02 February 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

You got it mate, he was captured on this google street view shot a couple of years ago rocking outside 'The Caff' in Torquay, England.. :)

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I'm a believer.

"Be peaceful, be courteous, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery."

“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.”

#175    Paranoid Android

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 06:38 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 02 February 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:

The thing about Paul, and I think you are roughly correct about his dates, is that he knows nothing of the earthly Jesus we see in the Gospels.  His Jesus is in Heaven about to return in glory.  He has that Jesus died and was resurrected, but no details, and is widely interpreted as thinking of events that took place in a hazy mythical time.

My feeling about ancient sources is that they are about as reliable as the stories they tell; if a historian tells us about wars and politics and so on, he is probably history, but if he tells us about monsters and the doings of heavenly beings and so on, then he is literature.  I see no reason why the Gospels should be given a free pass.
Whether Paul knew about it or not, as soon as his writings hit the scene, if Jesus never existed, someone would have written about it.  There would have been controversy.  But in all the anti-Christian writing about Jesus in ancient times, and there were several writers who disagreed with Christianity, they argued against Jesus on many areas, but none of them argued against his existence.

I'm not saying the gospels should be taken as historical fact.  I'm simply saying that every text has bias.  And so when reading the gospels, the Christian bias should be taken into consideration.  When reading Josephus the Jewish bias should be taken into consideration.  That kind of thing.

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#176    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 07:01 PM

View PostCrikey, on 02 February 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:


It goes further than that; the Bible is a 'Spiritual Survival Manual' that us how to tap into The Force that fills the universe and get feelgood downloads from it, think of it as a Power Boost.. :)



Can you imagine what life would be like, if man never invented the bible?  You wouldn't know how to lead a good life..!

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#177    eight bits

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 08:05 PM

Frank Merton

Quote

The thing about Paul, and I think you are roughly correct about his dates, is that he knows nothing of the earthly Jesus we see in the Gospels.  His Jesus is in Heaven about to return in glory.  He has that Jesus died and was resurrected, but no details, and is widely interpreted as thinking of events that took place in a hazy mythical time.

That's not the textual situation. While Paul cannot say of his own natural knowledge that his beliefs about Jesus are correct, he fairly obviously believes that Jesus, wherever he is now, at some recent time walked on Earth.

Among his fellow visionaries, he lists James, identified as a brother of Jesus and as somebody Paul did meet, in the flesh. Paul doesn't simply know that Jesus was betrayed, but recites an abbreviated "institution narrative." That depicts Jesus eating and drinking, which are earthly activities. Also, the institution narrative is presented as something familiar to his reader. Either Paul taught them this, or somebody else did, but etiher way, Paul knows what it is, and that the Jesus whom the narrative depicts is instituting something on Earth.

Jesus' teaching has few things to distinguish it from others', and Paul's teaching mostly applies his own Pharisaic thinking, which Jesus would not necessarily have agreed with. However, Jesus' teaching on divorce is peculiar to him and frankly counter-scriptural. Jesus reportedly forbade remarriage after divorce, except for special circumstances. 1 Corinthians 7: 10-15 appears to try to reconcile a similar teaching Paul says he got from "the Lord" with the realities of a Gentile church (while Jesus' comments would have been solely for Jewish listeners). Thus, Paul  appears to know a living Jesus teaching about a purely Earthly concern, divorce and marriage.

Finally, frrom a psychological point of view, Paul, who places so much emphasis on the physical character of the Resurrection, avoids Jerusalem during the entire period when Jesus' body would be entombed before secondary burial. As is routine in ego-defense, Paul has a song and dance about why not doing the obvious (going to Jerusalem to see that prematurely empty tomb for himself, now that he thinks it ought to be empty) was the right thing to do. It also helps to explain his emphasis on belief without evidence, which is a curious aspect of a religion whose distinctive feature is its historical character.

Had Paul tested what he made of his vision, then ... well, it depends on whether the tomb actually was untimely empty. That he took such care defending from refutation those personal conjectures in which he had invested so much, suggests that Paul believed that there was a tomb, recently used at the time of the beginning of his ministry, located in the city he took such care to avoid, where associates of the tomb's occupant still lived.

However,

PA

Quote

Whether Paul knew about it or not, as soon as his writings hit the scene, if Jesus never existed, someone would have written about it.  

The writings were letters to Gentile believers located anywhere except Jerusalem. Who would read them, except people who believed that Jesus existed? If someone else did read a letter, why would they care whether Jesus existed? If they cared, how would they know whether he existed or not? If they didn't know and wanted to find out, what do you propose they should do? It's twenty years on. If there was a tomb, then it's empty, or in use by somebody else.

Quote

... there were several writers who disagreed with Christianity, they argued against Jesus on many areas, but none of them argued against his existence.

And how many of those arguments do we have from the debater, and not from the Christian apologist with whom he debated?

Edited by eight bits, 02 February 2013 - 08:08 PM.

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#178    Crikey

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 10:42 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 02 February 2013 - 07:01 PM, said:

Can you imagine what life would be like, if man never invented the bible?  You wouldn't know how to lead a good life..!

No problemo, we'd still have the Koran for guidance..:)


#179    ranrod

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 10:49 PM

View PostCrikey, on 02 February 2013 - 10:42 PM, said:

No problemo, we'd still have the Koran for guidance.. :)
This guy is obviously trolling...do not feed the trolls :hmm:


#180    Crikey

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 10:53 PM

View Posteight bits, on 02 February 2013 - 08:05 PM, said:

....and Paul's teaching mostly applies his own Pharisaic thinking, which Jesus would not necessarily have agreed with.

But if Paul was trying to push his own brand of Christianity, why did he remind people not to follow him but to follow Jesus?-
"One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ." Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you?" (1 Cor 1:12/13)





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