11638 replies to this topic

[Otharus]

Knul, on 23 March 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

I just wonder, why the old Frisians did not claim the foundation of Rome as a Frisian city like they did with Athens.

Simple.
Because they didn't.

[Knul]

This text contains a number of words (in blue colour), which I could not explain.
[MS 082] [p. 112-114]

TWA JЄR NЄIDAM KЄM ÐENE MAGY SELVA MIÐ EN FLATE FON LICHTE KANUM ÐA MODER FON TEXLAND ÆND ÐA FODDIK TO RAWANE - ÐAS ÆRGE SЄKE BISTOND ER ÐES NACHTIS ANDA WINTER BY STORNE TYDUM AS WIND GŮLDE ÆND HЄJEL TO JENST ÐA ANDЄRNA FЄTERE - ÐI UTKIK ÐЄR MЄNDE ÐÆT ER AWET HЄRDE STÆK SIN BALLE VP - ÐA DRЄI AS ET LJUCHT FON ЄR TORE VPPET ROND - DЄL FALDA SA -R ÐÆT AL FЄLO WЄPENDE MANNA WRA BURCHWAL WЄRON - NW GVNG ER TO VMBE ÐA KLOKKE TO LETTANE - ÐA ET WЄRE TO LЄT - ЄR ÐA WЄRE RЄD WЄRE WЄRON ALTWA ÐUSAND INA WЄR VMBE ÐA PORTE TO RAMMANDE - STRID HWILDE HЄRVMBE KIRT HWAND ÐRVCHDAM ÐA WЄRE NAVT NЄN GODE WACHT HALDEN N – ЄDEN KЄMON ALLE OM - HWIL ÐÆT ALREK DROK TO KÆMPANE WЄRE WAS ÐЄREN WLA FIN TO ÐЄRE FLЄTE JEFTA BEDRUM FON ÐЄRE MODER INGLUPÐ AND WILDE HJA NЄDGJA - ÐA ÐJU MODER WЄRD IM OF ÐÆT ER BEKWARD TOJENST ÐA WACH STRUMPELDE – ÐA -R WIÐER VPA BЄN WЄRE STEK ER SIN SWЄRD TO IR  BUK IN - SEGSANDE NILST MIN KUL NAVT SA SKILST MIN SWERD HÆ - AFTER IM KЄM EN SKIPER FONA DЄNEMAR - KA ÐISSE NAM SIN SWЄRD ÆND HIF ÐENE FIN ÐRVCH SINA HOLE -ÐЄRUT FLAT SWART BLOD ¹ÆND ÐЄRVR SWЄFDE -N BLAWE LONGHA -



¹


258. Kwaad bloed zetten,258 d.w.z. aanleiding geven tot ongenoegen en wrok; eene zegswijze, die alleen verklaard kan worden door het geloof, dat kwaad bloed invloed heeft op iemands humeur, zijne gezindheid.1) Onder kwaad bloed zal men dan kunnen verstaan (zwart?) bloed, waarmede zich de gal vermengd heeft (vgl. zwartgallig); vgl. Westerbaen, Ock. 160: Oolijck bloed zetten; Tuinman I, 312: 't Zet geen goed bloed; Sewel, 987: Dat zal kwaad bloed zetten, that will breed ill blood; Janus, 31. Ook in het fr. se faire de mauvais sang; hd. böses Blut machen; eng. to breed ill or bad blood; in Zuidndl. (zich) kwaad bloed maken (of kweeken); De Bo, 150 a; Antw. Idiot. 255; Waasch Idiot. 379 b. [DBNL]

Edited by Knul, 23 March 2012 - 09:38 AM.

[Otharus]

Knul, on 23 March 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

TO ÐЄRE FLЄTE JEFTA BEDRUM

ÆND ÐЄRVR SWЄFDE -N BLAWE LONGHA

1. Richthofen: "flet" = huis; 'flet' in German dialect ('Platduits') is the place where the beds are.

2. The manuscript has "LOGHA", not "LONGHA". Logha = flame ('tongue' of fire)

Edited by Otharus, 23 March 2012 - 10:18 AM.

[Knul]

Otharus, on 23 March 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

1. Richthofen: "flet" = huis; 'flet' in German dialect ('Platduits') is the place where the beds are.

2. The manuscript has "LOGHA", not "LONGHA". Logha = flame ('tongue' of fire)

I like flet, but I would expect a synonym for bedroom because of the word jefta = of (or).

Logha is correct, but what would cause a blue flame from his brains ? His soul ?

Edited by Knul, 23 March 2012 - 12:48 PM.

[Van Gorp]

Otharus, on 22 March 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

Can you explain this?
What is a 'Ny-tal'?

Yes, i'll try my best.  Maybe in relation with the text below from OLB: Gosa's Advice

"HERE IS THE WRITING WITH GOSA’S ADVICE.



When Wr-alda gave children to the mothers of mankind, he gave one language to every tongue and to all lips. This gift Wr-alda had bestowed upon men in order that by its means they might make known to each other what must be avoided and what must be followed to find salvation, and to hold salvation to all eternity. Wr-alda is wise and good, and all-foreseeing. As he knew that happiness and holiness would flee from the earth when wickedness could overcome virtue, he has attached to the language an equitable property. This property consists in this, that men can neither lie nor use deceitful words without stammering or blushing, by which means the innately bad are easily known.

As thus our language opens the way to happiness and blessedness, and thus helps to guard against evil inclinations, it is rightly named the language of the gods, and all those by whom it is held in honour derive honour from it. But what has happened? As soon as among our half brothers and sisters deceivers arose, who gave themselves out as servants of the good, it soon became otherwise. The deceitful priests and the malignant princes, who always clung together, wished to live according to their own inclinations, without regard to the laws of right. In their wickedness they went so far as to invent other languages, so that they might speak secretly in anybody’s presence of their wicked and unworthy affairs without betraying themselves by stammering, and without showing a blush upon their countenances. Bat what has that produced? Just as the seed of good herbs which has been sown by good men in the open day springs up from the ground, so time brings to light the evil seed which has been sown by wicked men in secret and in darkness.

The wanton girls and effeminate youths who consorted with the immoral priests and princes, taught the new language to their companions, and thus spread it among the people till God’s language was clean forgotten. Would you know what came of all this? how that stammering and blushing no longer betrayed their evil doings;—virtue passed away, wisdom and liberty followed; unity was lost, and quarrelling took its place; love flew away, and unchastity and envy met round their tables; and where previously justice reigned, now it is the sword. All are slaves—the subjects of their masters, envy, bad passions and covetousness. If they had only invented one language things might possibly have still gone on well; but they invented as many languages as there are states, so that one people can no more understand another people than a cow a dog, or a wolf a sheep. The mariners can bear witness to this. From all this it results that all the slave people look upon each other as strangers; and that as a punishment of their inconsiderateness and presumption, they must quarrel and fight till they are all destroyed.
"


Lat-in as the opposite twisted letters of Ni-tal, which means a 'new language' in Dietsch (ny tael).  But so far was clear i think :-)

For me the true meaning behind this view is that the Latin/Greek/All other Babylonian languages are indeed new languages, and intentionaly brought to live to bring people in chaos by means of disrupting the words in use from their original meaning leaving a language with meaningless words and thus meaningless talks in the truth sense about the history of mankind.

Mostly done in late middleages by unpious Monks paid by the wicked rulers of the people (even now, even now people just believe what they are being told or what is written down by authority)

Like the name of their new language is a twisted and meaningless version with many childversions of the original commonly practised and meaningfull words, the reality it brings with it is also a 'twisted' and meaningless amalgaam of duplicated and twisted stories of the original common story.  

An example: when you see that their is a meaning of the words Gaul (Ga-haal) and German (Guer-man) and that they both points to the same (conflict), next step is to consider that in fact where they were mentionned first as such (latin texts found late middleages) they do not have to be 2 seperated 'tribes', rather 2 latinised wordplays of meaningfull descriptions for a same event.

The same as we are talking french when children are not considered to follow our conversation, the inventors of Latin knew more about it's deceitfull compositions than their fellowman.
And said f.e. to the people that Aristoteles was an ancient sage from Greece.  While in fact it was a contemporary and pedantic entity to give ancient background for a new and twisted worldvision.  Many people have a clue about the impossible 'intellectual' but materialistic inspired truths coming from 'it', few have a clue that the name is pronounced as 'Erwisthetalles' (beter) and that this really makes sense as it says 'He knew it all, better than the rest' -> so better live according our sage's views and all that follows :-)

That's why we (first a small group) were learend in Latin in the beginning of the scolar system -> not that the 'priviliged' students did really learn about it, they just refrabicated as they were told.  Because originals were not available.

From the moment language became printed en masse we couldn't learn en masse about our original language and history because they trowed Latin/Greek into our face as 'our histroy' what they tell us it is! lol

These (and their child languages) are the Babylonians languages in the age of 'Kali', the age of quarrel depending the veda's (het is geweten).  
Kallen dat we doen! But we do not understand each other (understanding as vibrating all together as we did back then with all the common words).

Unless we attach again the guts to the words, meaning not talking about Liberty as Liber-ties (something where -tig books are being written) but the rebeluous spirit to break free from bondage (we have accomplished on material level, now on spiritual -> by means of the common 'sense', wat zin heeft het, the is-sens, dat maakt sense).

[Abramelin]

Knul, on 23 March 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

Right, I shoul be more specific. The OLB does not mention any activity of the Romans with regard to people living in the Gaulic and Germanic regions (inluding the Frisians and the occupation of Britannia). The only reference to the Romans are the Punic wars. In the OLB it all happened before the Romans passed the Alps, which Otharus seems not to understand. I just wonder, why the old Frisians did not claim the foundation of Rome as a Frisian city like they did with Athens.

But the OLB DOES mention exactly that:

From Sandbach's translation:

The Romans, moreover, live at enmity with the Phœnicians; and their priests, who wish to assume the sole government of the world, cannot bear the sight of the Gauls. First they took from the Phœnicians Marseilles—then all the countries lying to the south, the west, and the north, as well as the southern part of Britain—and they have always driven away the Phœnician priests, that is the Gauls, of whom thousands have sought refuge in North Britain.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#ca

Edited by Abramelin, 24 March 2012 - 12:44 AM.

[The Puzzler]

Otharus, on 23 March 2012 - 08:42 AM, said:

Simple.
Because they didn't.

Also, why would they? Rome was built by troops (Far Krekalanders) who had returned from Troy - it was never Frisian.

[Knul]

Just a simple line for those who still doubt, that the OLB has been written by J.H. Halbertsma, or even think that the OLB is authentic medieaval prose:

[MS 031] [p. 44-46]

01 LA AGON TO DVANDE VMBE FRЄÐO WILLA / 02 VSA HALF-BROÐAR NE MŮGON VS NIMMER / 03 MINACHTJA NACH WANA ÐAT WI ANGE SEND . / 04 IN MIN JŮGED HÆV IK WEL / 05 ENIS MORT - OVERA BÆNDA ÐЄRA ЄWA ÆFER* / 06 HÆV-IK FRYA OFTEN TANKED VR HJRA TEX ÆND / 07 VSA ЄÐLA VR ÐA ЄWA ÐЄR ÐЄRNЄI TAVLIKT / 08 SEND . WR-ALDA JEFÐA AL-FODER HEÐ / 09 MI FЄLO JЄREN JЄVEN - INVR FЄLO LANDA ÆND / 10 SЄA HÆV IK OMME-FAREN - ÆND NЄI AL HWA -K / 11 SJAN HÆ - BIN -IK VRTJUGAD ÐAT WI ALLЄNA [p. 46] / 12 ÐRVCH AL-FODER ŮTFORKЄREN SEND - ЄWA TO  13 HÆVANDE . LYDA-S FOLK NЄ MЄI NЄN ЄWA TO / 14 MAKJANDE NI TO HALDANDE - HJA SIND* TO / 15 DVM ÆND WILD ÐЄRTO . FЄLO SLACHTA FIN / 16 – DA-S SEND SNOD ENOCH - MEN HJA SEND / 17 GYRICH – HACH-FARANDE . FALSK . VNKUS ÆND / 18 MORT-SJOCHTICH . POGA BLESAÐ HJARA / 19 SELVA VPPA ÆND HJA NE MŮGAÐ NAWET ÐAN / 20 KRUPA . FORSKA HROPAÐ WÆRK - WÆRK - ÆND / 21 HJA NE DVAÐ NAWET AS HIPPA ÆND KLUCHT / 22 MAKJA . ÐA ROKA HROPAÐ SPAR - SPAR - MEN / 23 HJA STЄLON ÆND VRSLYNAÐ AL WAT VNDER / 24 HJARA SNAVELA KVMAÐ . LIK AL ÐAM IS ÐÆT / 25 FINDAS FOLK - HJA BOGAÐ IMMER OVIR / 26 GODA ЄWA - EK WIL SETMA MAKJA VMB / 27 - ET KWAD TO WЄRANE - MEN SELVA NIL / 28 NIMMAN ÐЄR AN BONDEN WЄSA . ÐЄRA ./ 29 HWAM-HIS GAST ÐÆT LESTIGOSTE SY - ÆND / 30 ÐЄRTRVCH STERIK – ÐAM -HIS HʘNE KRЄJAÐ KЄNING *./ 31 ÆND ÐA ʘRA MOTON ALWENNA AN SIN WELD / 32 VNDERWURPEN WЄSA TIL EN ʘÐER KVMÐ ÐЄR -IM

18 Halbertsma: ,,Jonge,'' aldus Eölus zelf, 'ik kom fierder as dou en dyn gelikens. Dou bliuwste op dyn pôle sitten en dêr mienste as in frosk, dy him fen greatskens opbliest, de wisheid yn pacht to habben. Ik kom, ik waai oeral, mar ljeafst yn Ingelan. It A-bie fen de constitutie, dat ik dy hjir opsei, hab ik dêr leard. In turfdrager tinkt dêr klearder oer sokke dingen as dou, en dou hjitste den noch ek preker ?' (227) ' Uitvoerig legt Eölus uit, hoe verderfelijk de Jacobijnen werken en groote moeite doet hij om het nut van een goede oppositie aan te toonen. (225 vlgg.) Mogen de Friezen nu maar luisteren, eer het te laat is. De underfining jowt hjar lexoms rju let, en den noch mei triennen'; aldus Halbertsma, 'my tinkt, it is al. Bron: P.A. Jongsma, Denkbeelden  (diss) 1933. s. http://rodinbook.nl/olbjongsma.html p. 103.



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Edited by Knul, 24 March 2012 - 04:39 AM.

[Knul]

Abramelin, on 24 March 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

But the OLB DOES mention exactly that:

From Sandbach's translation:

The Romans, moreover, live at enmity with the Phœnicians; and their priests, who wish to assume the sole government of the world, cannot bear the sight of the Gauls. First they took from the Phœnicians Marseilles—then all the countries lying to the south, the west, and the north, as well as the southern part of Britain—and they have always driven away the Phœnician priests, that is the Gauls, of whom thousands have sought refuge in North Britain.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#ca

You convinced me, but it happened long before Hannibal surpassed the Alps and Caesar tried to conquer the Germani, Batavii and Frisii, beyond the present scope of the OLB.

Edited by Knul, 24 March 2012 - 05:32 AM.

[Knul]

Van Gorp, on 24 March 2012 - 12:31 AM, said:

Yes, i'll try my best.  Maybe in relation with the text below from OLB: Gosa's Advice



Unless we attach again the guts to the words, meaning not talking about Liberty as Liber-ties (something where -tig books are being written) but the rebeluous spirit to break free from bondage (we have accomplished on material level, now on spiritual -> by means of the common 'sense', wat zin heeft het, the is-sens, dat maakt sense).

I prefer senseo !

[Otharus]

Knul, on 24 March 2012 - 04:33 AM, said:

Just a simple line for those who still doubt, that the OLB has been written by J.H. Halbertsma, or even think that the OLB is authentic medieaval prose:

[MS 031] [p. 44-46]

POGA BLESAÐ HJARA SELVA VPPA
...
FORSKA HROPAÐ WÆRK - WÆRK

Halbertsma: as in frosk, dy him fen greatskens opbliest

OLB: Toads (POGA) blow up themselves, frogs (FORSKA) say "work, work".

Halbertsma (when did he write that?): a frog (FROSK) that blows up himself

How is this 'proof' that Halbertsma made the OLB?
I've seen better 'proof' against Haverschmidt and Verwijs... but not good enough.

[Otharus]

Van Gorp, on 24 March 2012 - 12:31 AM, said:

Yes, i'll try my best.  Maybe in relation with the text below from OLB: Gosa's Advice

...

Lat-in as the opposite twisted letters of Ni-tal, which means a 'new language' in Dietsch (ny tael).  But so far was clear i think :-)

For me the true meaning behind this view is that the Latin/Greek/All other Babylonian languages are indeed new languages, and intentionaly brought to live to bring people in chaos by means of disrupting the words in use from their original meaning leaving a language with meaningless words and thus meaningless talks in the truth sense about the history of mankind.

Mostly done in late middleages by unpious Monks paid by the wicked rulers of the people (even now, even now people just believe what they are being told or what is written down by authority)

...

The same as we are talking french when children are not considered to follow our conversation, the inventors of Latin knew more about it's deceitfull compositions than their fellowman.
And said f.e. to the people that Aristoteles was an ancient sage from Greece.  While in fact it was a contemporary and pedantic entity to give ancient background for a new and twisted worldvision.  Many people have a clue about the impossible 'intellectual' but materialistic inspired truths coming from 'it', few have a clue that the name is pronounced as 'Erwisthetalles' (beter) and that this really makes sense as it says 'He knew it all, better than the rest' -> so better live according our sage's views and all that follows :-)

...

Unless we attach again the guts to the words, meaning not talking about Liberty as Liber-ties (something where -tig books are being written) but the rebeluous spirit to break free from bondage (we have accomplished on material level, now on spiritual -> by means of the common 'sense', wat zin heeft het, the is-sens, dat maakt sense).

Very interesting!

This material is hard to explain, but I think I see what you mean and I basically agree.

[Knul]

Otharus, on 24 March 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:

OLB: Toads (POGA) blow up themselves, frogs (FORSKA) say "work, work".

Halbertsma (when did he write that?): a frog (FROSK) that blows up himself

How is this 'proof' that Halbertsma made the OLB?
I've seen better 'proof' against Haverschmidt and Verwijs... but not good enough.

in: Oan Eölus oer it Needwaer fen de 29ste Novimber, 1837 en Eölus syn Antwird, mei oar Grjimmank (1837).

There is no better proof than 1:1.

[Otharus]

Knul, on 24 March 2012 - 09:51 AM, said:

There is no better proof than 1:1.

So what is your proof?

Jean de La Fontaine (1621 - 1695) wrote a fable about a frog, that wanted to be as big as an ox, and blew up himself.

With your logic, I just 'proved' that La Fontaine wrote the OLB.

You just demonstrated wonderfully how desperately weak the hoax-theory 'proof' actually is.

[Abramelin]

Knul, on 24 March 2012 - 04:50 AM, said:

You convinced me, but it happened long before Hannibal surpassed the Alps and Caesar tried to conquer the Germani, Batavii and Frisii, beyond the present scope of the OLB.

I already said things don't add up: the time line is wrong. What the OLB says about the Romans is anachronistic.

+++

EDIT:

The only additions to the OLB family chronicle after 558 BC (Book of Adela's followers) BC are the letters from Hidde (1256 AD) and from Liko (803 AD) at the start of the OLB as we know it.

If we asssume nothing has been added after 558 BC to the narrative itself, we have a problem.
If we assume members of the OLB family did add to the chronicle/narrative itself but without mentioning they did (anonymous) it could explain some things, like certain events and the insertion of modern-looking words or even the use of the more modern Old Frisian language as we know it from around the 13th century AD.

And the last case, however, would tell us that the OLB wasn't just copied over and over again, but rewritten (with additions) in a more modern language everytime it was copied.



.

Edited by Abramelin, 24 March 2012 - 12:15 PM.