Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Poll, Has religion made the world better?


  • Please log in to reply
148 replies to this topic

Poll: Does religion make the world a better place? (57 member(s) have cast votes)

Has religion made the world better or worse?

  1. Better (11 votes [19.30%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 19.30%

  2. Worse (38 votes [66.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 66.67%

  3. It is irrelevant and does neither. (8 votes [14.04%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 14.04%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#91    libstaK

libstaK

    Nosce Te Ipsum

  • 6,037 posts
  • Joined:06 Feb 2011
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Melbourne, Australia

  • Hello Reality and all that is True
    When Oxymoron was defined it was just for you

Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:57 AM

View PostProfessor T, on 24 February 2013 - 11:47 PM, said:

If a man or woman invented a cure or inspired a generation but happened to be catholic, islamic or other, their religion would take the credit of their deeds to further it's self.. And religion will use that to inspire more follower's for it to control and force conformity..
The same would occur should the man or woman be of a particular nation aka: political persuasion.  Conformity is asked of people in all societies, societal laws are passed to ensure conformity to the beliefs of the nation they live in, be these secular or religious beliefs.

I think the point that if there were no religion we would still have battled through the ages because of differences in belief (not religious but any belief) has been lost, soccer/football/sporting fans of all persuasion battle for their colours/teams.  People have used not just religion but societal "mores" as reasons to judge and condemn others in every corner of the globe, tribal beliefs have been the cause of entire generations battling to the death with their neighbours, regardless of belief in the same God or faith.

I am not excusing religion for it's past atrocities merely stating that humans who have the will and capacity to cause such harm and judgements on others will latch onto a reason to do what they will - religion can just as often be the victim of subjugation and manipulation by minds filled with lust for blood and power over others.

"I warn you, whoever you are, oh you who wish to probe the arcanes of nature, if you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither shall you find it outside.
If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

Inscription - Temple of Delphi

#92    Knight Of Shadows

Knight Of Shadows

    Shadow Dancer

  • Member
  • 5,251 posts
  • Joined:17 Mar 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Free Syria

  • Rest In Peace A.B

Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:58 AM

View Posteight bits, on 25 February 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

I understood you just fine. I disagreed with you. There was only one "Islamic nation," at the time in question, Arabs. Every other nation who was governed according to Islam was "an Islamic nation" by coercion. Oh, wait a minute, so were the Arabs... well, no matter, because we're talking about places that were civilized at the time of their "conversion." Some of the non-Arab coerced places had advanced and productive civilizations before, during, and, at least for a time, after their conquest.

first of all there history disprove this coercion  islam you trying to push here
quite to your disadvatange some people here actually " knows " history and such claims you making are clearly false
as many people " choose " to convert to islam during the islamic rule
i know it's hard to swallow something you dislike . .but that's the truth check out history


View Posteight bits, on 25 February 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

It is none of my concern whether or not you support Islam. The question was "Did the Islamic Golden Age happen?" You instructed another poster that it did, and claimed that your view was a fact. No, it isn't a fact. It is, at best, a possible interpretation of events, and a controversial one. I hope that I showed something of why it is controversial.

and islamic golden age did happen .. if you disagree with that take it up with historians
it's quite annoying really when person try to disprove something considered as historic event
kinda of makes us question the motivition .. none the less history says otherwise and says that it DID happen " golden age of islam "
it's not interpretation .. what you are saying now IS the interpretation
just so we clear on this point .. it's you who assuming here
assuming that historic event didn't happen requires great amount of evidence
and your word and assuming is not gonna cut it
especially when you are over flooded with evidence saying otherwise
so please let's put " religious differences " aside and put things in their true prospective

View Posteight bits, on 25 February 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

Why the fishing expedition? You're posting on a discussion board. You may expect your pontification to be met with others' interrogation. You not only stated your opinion, you corrected a fellow member of the community in the bargain, claiming that she had made an error of fact. She hadn't.
Do you want to answer my questions or not? If not, then any excuse is as good as another.

yes she did made mistake and proven otherwise that islam contirbuted to science and had it's run
and in fact freetoroam admiited she's not denying the islam had golden age or contirbuted to science and such
she's against modern extremists of islam and that's clear in her posting
cool by me .. am too against exteremists

Edited by Knight Of Shadows, 25 February 2013 - 09:59 AM.

by the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak From the evil of that which He created
And from the evil of darkness when it settles And from the evil of the blowers in knots
And from the evil of an envier when he envies"
truthful was Allah The Most High And Great


#93    danielost

danielost

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 28,709 posts
  • Joined:26 Nov 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:the only known inhabited planet in the universe

Posted 25 February 2013 - 10:59 AM

Knight, you mean they chose to convert so they wouldn't be killed.  Of, course the catholic church did the samething europe to a degree.

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you.

#94    eight bits

eight bits

    ...

  • Member
  • 6,023 posts
  • Joined:24 May 2007

Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:16 AM

Knight

Quote

first of all there history disprove this coercion  islam you trying to push here

Of course, defeated people often choose to adopt the customs of their conquerors. To this day, the Irish speak English, almost all of them as their first language. No complaints are heard, none. What you're short of is people who volunteer to be conquered.

Quote

and islamic golden age did happen .. if you disagree with that take it up with historians

I'm a member here, Knight. I'll take it up with whoever here wishes to discuss it.

My position is that IGA is controversial among historians and archeologists, not only regarding what it was, but when it supposedly began and when it supposedly ended. There is agreement about one thing: that if it happened at all, it ended at least 750 years ago.

There is also a secondary issue, a comparison with then-contemporary "Christian Europe." Somehow, your favorite "historians" can't seem to find in "Christian Europe" the Byzantine Empire, which existed before, during and after any claimed "Islamic Golden Age." It finally fell to Turks, who had by then long since displaced Arabs as the top dogs of Islamic imperialism.

Quote

so please let's put " religious differences " aside and put things in their true prospective

The question isn't religious in the first instance. It's historical and archeological for us, and political and military for the people back then. Then, and possibly now, all the religious rigamarole was a pretext for the usual sort of treatment of the weaker or unprepared by the ruthless that we see everywhere throughout history.

While I appreciate that you disagree with the other member, regardless, it is an abuse of language to say that a religion contributes to science. What we are discussing is whether scientists ever lived under a particular political system, operating under color of religion. Yes, many did, for a while after their homelands were overrun by the armies of that political system.

Meanwhile, Eastern Mediterranean Christian Europeans were preserving, transmitting and improving upon Greek mathematics and classical learning. Central Western Europe was long preoccupied with a geopolitical nightmare, and impoverished by their exigencies, but still managed, despite their "backwardness," to kick some serious invader butt at Tours.

Edited by eight bits, 25 February 2013 - 11:20 AM.

Posted Image

#95    Frank Merton

Frank Merton

    Blue fish

  • Member
  • 12,586 posts
  • Joined:22 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

  • I dunno --

Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:45 AM

I think most of history shows mass conversions often accompany military conquest; the rulers convert or are removed and enforce the religion on the masses.  They often resist but in a generation or two the change has been effected.

The ease with which the Christians of North Africa went Muslim has been remarked on as something somewhat special.  The Jews there remained Jews but within a generation the Christians had converted.  It seems to be a commentary on the fact that the Christians there were convenience Christians to a large extent, having gone Christian for political reasons only a century or so earlier.  It seems the extra tax the Muslims imposed on non-Muslims was all that was needed for these Christians.


#96    maxhobbs

maxhobbs

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 15 posts
  • Joined:22 Feb 2013

Posted 25 February 2013 - 02:56 PM

How could anyone possibly think religion has made the world better??


#97    GreenmansGod

GreenmansGod

    Bio-Electric sentient being.

  • Member
  • 9,307 posts
  • Joined:23 Jun 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Hurricane State

  • May the laughter ye give today return to thee 3 fold.

Posted 25 February 2013 - 03:05 PM

I think whether or not a civilization has a golden age, and most do, has more to do with weather, agricultural, trade, and resources, than it does religion. The Egyptians, Greeks were polytheistic pagans for the most part and they had their golden ages.  I think civilizations are more likely to have a golden age despite their religion rather than because of it.

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." Salman Rushdie

#98    danielost

danielost

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 28,709 posts
  • Joined:26 Nov 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:the only known inhabited planet in the universe

Posted 25 February 2013 - 03:11 PM

View Postmaxhobbs, on 25 February 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

How could anyone possibly think religion has made the world better??

How about those being feed do toreligous beliefs

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you.

#99    freetoroam

freetoroam

    Honourary member of the UM asylum

  • Member
  • 6,559 posts
  • Joined:11 Nov 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:rivers and canals of England and Wales.

  • If you didn't see it with your own eyes, or hear it with your own ears, don't invent it with your small mind and share it with your big mouth!

Posted 25 February 2013 - 03:34 PM

View PostProfessor T, on 24 February 2013 - 10:22 PM, said:

Lol!
:lol:
This thread has turned into a showcase for Religious Ego! :w00t:  How Facinating!!!

Red-hen, your video was Propaganda... You do realise this, dont you?
Freetoroam, While Europe was floundering in the dark ages, Islam was in a golden age of Science.. thats a fact btw..
Knight of Shadows, please dont get so offended by the infidels, sad fact these days is that Islam is in the dark ages now..

I never said they did not invent anything, i said out of all the things invented throughout the world, the muslims were not the first and it did not make them a world leader or power. China, Europe and Africa can all claim a few discoveries.
Its that Knight of Shadows was trying to make out that islam were the leaders. So what, they invented a few things, a fountain pen and chess and a few other things,  woop woop! The rest of the world would not have stopped without them.
As I also said, what good did it do for them today? if the muslims were all that clever they would not be killing each other on their own streets.
All this bickering about "my religion did this, and my religion did that" just proves why I voted worse! wars have been fought over this sort of bickering over religions throughout the centuries..."my religion is better than yours!!!!"
Why  give the credit to islam, what about the man who invented it? or are they below islam?


I agree with this:

so please let's put " religious differences " aside and put things in their true prospective

But this thread is about religion and whether we think it has made the world a better place.

Edited by freetoroam, 25 February 2013 - 03:44 PM.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#100    Paranoid Android

Paranoid Android

    ????????

  • 24,646 posts
  • Joined:17 Apr 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney

  • Paranoid Android... No power in the verse can stop me...

Posted 25 February 2013 - 03:35 PM

View Postmaxhobbs, on 25 February 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

How could anyone possibly think religion has made the world better??
Well, there's the music, art, architecture and theatre that were directly and indirectly inspired by religion ("direct"inspiration - Cathedrals/Mosques/Temples/etc as some examples, "indirect" inspiration - eg, Buddhism inspired George Lucas with many ideas for his Star Wars saga, J.R.R. Tolkien took inspiration from Christianity in writing the Lord of the Rings [there are also theatre makers like Peter Brook who use ancient religious stories and put them on stage in the modern world, so that would be both a direct and indirect inspiration]). There's the charity work that religious organisations do (and yes, I understand charity is not restricted solely to religion, but religious groups do make up the majority of charity work in our world today).  There's also the comfort that religion has brought people when loved ones passed away, first by providing a hope of a life after, and second by the support network of church, a pastor who will sit and listen to you rant and ramble about how painful this time is for you and your family, church parishioners who are willing to set time aside to help you through.  There's the comfort that religions bring to people as they themselves befall hardship (eg, lying dying in a hospital with no one to talk to, you're virtually guaranteed that a religious minister will be willing to talk and bring comfort).  

I would argue that in the face of all this, the hurt that has been caused by religion through the course of millennia is minimal by comparison, and that without a shadow of a doubt, the world is a richer and better place today because of what religion has done.  I am not denying that terrible things have been done in the name of religion, but even were these to be attributed to religion itself (as opposed to religion being used an excuse, while power and greed were the real reasons) that the impact, though large, cannot compare with the good that has come because of it.

Just a few thoughts,

~ Regards, PA

Edited by Paranoid Android, 25 February 2013 - 03:44 PM.

Posted Image

My blog is now taking a new direction.  Dedicated to my father who was a great inspiration in my life, I wish to honour his memory (RIP, dad) by sharing with the world what he had always kept to himself.  More details, http://www.unexplain...showentry=27811

#101    Knight Of Shadows

Knight Of Shadows

    Shadow Dancer

  • Member
  • 5,251 posts
  • Joined:17 Mar 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Free Syria

  • Rest In Peace A.B

Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:44 PM

View Postdanielost, on 25 February 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

Knight, you mean they chose to convert so they wouldn't be killed.  Of, course the catholic church did the samething europe to a degree.
no they choose to convert because they wanted islam
there never is .. or was a law in islam that kills those who don't convert
they pay amount of money in exchange for not serving in army and other activities muslims supposed to do in islamic nation
get your facts straight

by the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak From the evil of that which He created
And from the evil of darkness when it settles And from the evil of the blowers in knots
And from the evil of an envier when he envies"
truthful was Allah The Most High And Great


#102    Knight Of Shadows

Knight Of Shadows

    Shadow Dancer

  • Member
  • 5,251 posts
  • Joined:17 Mar 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Free Syria

  • Rest In Peace A.B

Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:55 PM

View Posteight bits, on 25 February 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

Knight



Of course, defeated people often choose to adopt the customs of their conquerors. To this day, the Irish speak English, almost all of them as their first language. No complaints are heard, none. What you're short of is people who volunteer to be conquered.



I'm a member here, Knight. I'll take it up with whoever here wishes to discuss it.

My position is that IGA is controversial among historians and archeologists, not only regarding what it was, but when it supposedly began and when it supposedly ended. There is agreement about one thing: that if it happened at all, it ended at least 750 years ago.

There is also a secondary issue, a comparison with then-contemporary "Christian Europe." Somehow, your favorite "historians" can't seem to find in "Christian Europe" the Byzantine Empire, which existed before, during and after any claimed "Islamic Golden Age." It finally fell to Turks, who had by then long since displaced Arabs as the top dogs of Islamic imperialism.



The question isn't religious in the first instance. It's historical and archeological for us, and political and military for the people back then. Then, and possibly now, all the religious rigamarole was a pretext for the usual sort of treatment of the weaker or unprepared by the ruthless that we see everywhere throughout history.

While I appreciate that you disagree with the other member, regardless, it is an abuse of language to say that a religion contributes to science. What we are discussing is whether scientists ever lived under a particular political system, operating under color of religion. Yes, many did, for a while after their homelands were overrun by the armies of that political system.

Meanwhile, Eastern Mediterranean Christian Europeans were preserving, transmitting and improving upon Greek mathematics and classical learning. Central Western Europe was long preoccupied with a geopolitical nightmare, and impoverished by their exigencies, but still managed, despite their "backwardness," to kick some serious invader butt at Tours.
The Islamic Golden Age is a Abbasid historical period lasting until the Mongol conquest of Baghdad in 1258.[1] The Islamic Golden Age was inaugurated by the middle of the 8th century by the ascension of the Abbasid Caliphate and the transfer of the capital from Damascus to Baghdad.[2] The Abbasids were influenced by the Qur'anic injunctions and hadith such as "the ink of a scholar is more holy than the blood of a martyr" that stressed the value of knowledge.[2] During this period the Arab world became an intellectual center for science, philosophy, medicine and education; the Abbasids championed the cause of knowledge and established the House of Wisdom in Baghdad, where both Muslim and non-Muslim scholars sought to translate and gather all the world's knowledge into Arabic.[2] Many classic works of antiquity that would otherwise have been lost were translated into Arabic and Persian and later in turn translated into Turkish, Hebrew and Latin.[2] During this period the Arab world was a collection of cultures which put together, synthesized and significantly advanced the knowledge gained from the ancient Roman, Chinese, Indian, Persian, Egyptian, Greek, and Byzantine civilizations.[2]

eight this is your historians words ... not my favorite historians
this is history .. simple as that
i find your use of " a fountain pen and chess and a few other things " is very amusing
yet pointless getaway from the fact the muslims have contributed to major science ..
the star names " which are in arabic " are quite example on muslims conturbtion which you desperatly seeking to deny
the medicine and engineering and math and all other major science flourished during islam
historians approve to this .. and not my " favorite historians " these are the words of your " favorite " historians

so again i say give credit to those who deserve it and put things in correct prospective
away from religious differnces .. which is the drive and fuel for certain people in this debate
so disagree all you like .. unless they rewrite history to prove your claims
these claims remains a flawed and lacking theory .. more of fantasy than theory to be honest in my opinion

Edited by Knight Of Shadows, 25 February 2013 - 04:57 PM.

by the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak From the evil of that which He created
And from the evil of darkness when it settles And from the evil of the blowers in knots
And from the evil of an envier when he envies"
truthful was Allah The Most High And Great


#103    danielost

danielost

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 28,709 posts
  • Joined:26 Nov 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:the only known inhabited planet in the universe

Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:55 PM

View PostKnight Of Shadows, on 25 February 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:


no they choose to convert because they wanted islam
there never is .. or was a law in islam that kills those who don't convert
they pay amount of money in exchange for not serving in army and other activities muslims supposed to do in islamic nation
get your facts straight

Get my facts straight.  You the one who kept saying the syrian peoole loved thier dictator.  How's that going by the way.  They only Islamic natiuon that didn't force anyone to convert was the Otoman Empire

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you.

#104    freetoroam

freetoroam

    Honourary member of the UM asylum

  • Member
  • 6,559 posts
  • Joined:11 Nov 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:rivers and canals of England and Wales.

  • If you didn't see it with your own eyes, or hear it with your own ears, don't invent it with your small mind and share it with your big mouth!

Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:57 PM

After eight years of fighting with the Meccan tribes, his followers, who by then had grown to 10,000, took control of Mecca in the largely peaceful Conquest of Mecca. He destroyed the pagan idols in the city[18] and then sent his followers out to destroy all of the remaining pagan temples in Eastern Arabia.[19][20] In 632, a few months after returning to Medina from The Farewell Pilgrimage, Muhammad fell ill and died. By the time of his death, most of the Arabian Peninsula had converted to Islam, and he had united Arabia into a single Muslim religious polity


You just got to love religion....not!
BTW the christians were just as bad.

Edited by freetoroam, 25 February 2013 - 04:58 PM.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#105    GreenmansGod

GreenmansGod

    Bio-Electric sentient being.

  • Member
  • 9,307 posts
  • Joined:23 Jun 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Hurricane State

  • May the laughter ye give today return to thee 3 fold.

Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:57 PM

That is one thing religion is good for, It gives a real boost to art. We could do a whole library on religion inspired  art through BC to CE.  Art is my Achilles heal. El Greco is on my list of favorite. If you can get a chance to see one in person, it is worth the trip. His paintings look 3D when you see them in person and no need for goofy glasses.
http://totallyhistor...reco-paintings/

Edited by Darkwind, 25 February 2013 - 05:01 PM.

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." Salman Rushdie




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users