8 replies to this topic

[the L]

World War II -- "Narrated by Oliver Stone, this new one-hour series features human events that at the time went under reported, but crucially shaped America's unique and complex history. The first chapter explores the birth of the American Empire by focusing on Franklin D. Roosevelt, Winston Churchill and Joseph Stalin. Through examination of key decisions during World War II, discover unsung heroes such as American Henry Wallace and explore the demonization of the Soviets." (source: www.sho.com)

Edited by the L, 27 December 2012 - 09:47 PM.

[Kasey2601]

This series sounds interesting, but as I do not have Showtime, I will not be viewing it.

[Hilander]

Can't watch it right now but it does look interesting.

[the L]

It is interesting but not so new information to me.
I was just surprised how many Russians and Chinese died but then again it isnt surprising at all knowing that German eastern front was their main front and that about 80% of Japanese soldiers were in China.
Yes Barbarosa was Hitler mistake. Napoleon was in Moscow but Hitler didnt. In fact first major defeat of Hitler was in front of Moscow. Then Stalingrad and Kursk happened.
I like to think thats because of Zhukov. Beside Rommel I found him best strategist in WW2.

Documentary proposed some interesting question such as what if Japanese and Germans were united and point their armies into middle east and India forcing UK to defeat...how things would developed?

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

the L, on 27 December 2012 - 11:54 PM, said:

It is interesting but not so new information to me.
I was just surprised how many Russians and Chinese died but then again it isnt surprising at all knowing that German eastern front was their main front and that about 80% of Japanese soldiers were in China.
Yes Barbarosa was Hitler mistake. Napoleon was in Moscow but Hitler didnt. In fact first major defeat of Hitler was in front of Moscow. Then Stalingrad and Kursk happened.
I like to think thats because of Zhukov. Beside Rommel I found him best strategist in WW2.

Documentary proposed some interesting question such as what if Japanese and Germans were united and point their armies into middle east and India forcing UK to defeat...how things would developed?

Zhukov, it's all about Zhukov from beginning to end, he was best of the best.
About Germans and Japanese forces uniting, well, Japanese destroyed any chance of German victory by not attacking USSR from Manchuria in 1941. After that there was only going to be one result. By the way, Zhukov defeated Japanese in 1939 at battle of Khalkhin Gol in a short war. so there was never any chance of Japanese helping Germans. In that war it is possible to see many different scenarios for what may have happened, but they all fall on one fact. That fact is the atom bomb. Certainly the situation until the Trinity test could have been very different from what it was, but after Trinity, Germany and Japan were dead no matter what they did.

[Gummug]

Thanks for that video, TL. I knew some of it, but not all...I knew the Russians had lost a lof of their people fighting the Germans, but I didn't realize they killed 6 million Germans to the allies' 1 million. It looks like they did more to stop the Nazi war machine than all the rest of the allies put together! I guess it didn't help that we didn't land on Normandy beach until fairly late in the war...June 6, 1944, wasn't it?

[the L]

Gummug, on 30 December 2012 - 11:07 PM, said:

Thanks for that video, TL. I knew some of it, but not all...I knew the Russians had lost a lof of their people fighting the Germans, but I didn't realize they killed 6 million Germans to the allies' 1 million. It looks like they did more to stop the Nazi war machine than all the rest of the allies put together! I guess it didn't help that we didn't land on Normandy beach until fairly late in the war...June 6, 1944, wasn't it?

It helped Russians because that way Germany was strech between two lines. But I think that Operation Barbarosa was Hitler mistake. He had good cards and deal with Russians.
Russians also have had good cards. Deal with Japanese and Germans.

Other two landings were also crucial. One in Italy and one in Africa.

I think that any help against Hitler was good help.
I have one alternative view which I found interesting. Why Brazil join the WW2, that Germans have had Atom bomb and etc. In that view Brazil joined just because Italians and Germans in Italy were stubborn and didnt want to show white flag to US or UK. Because of chemical disaster in Bari where USA and UK prepare chemical attack on Germany...

[the L]

Atentutankh-pasheri, on 28 December 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

In that war it is possible to see many different scenarios for what may have happened, but they all fall on one fact.

Such as...

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

the L, on 30 December 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

Such as...

Victory of Rommel in North Africa. Failure of the Italian landings, particulary Anzio. Failure of D Day. Defeat at Midway, Defeat in Battle of Moscow. All these allied victories could have been defeats, nothing was certain about anything. About German atom bomb, well they had taken a wrong turning in how they should be built and triggering mechanism. The US bomb was a certainty to have been tested succesfully in 1945, the Germans probably would have realised their mistakes, but they ran out of time. Even if in summer of 1945 there had been no succesful D Day and Red Army was still defending the Don and Volga, there would still have been an Allied atom bomb. There still would have been victory, but world would be radically different to what it is now.

Edited by Atentutankh-pasheri, 31 December 2012 - 01:23 PM.