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Files shed light on MoD UFO desk closure


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#46    Admiral Rhubarb

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 08:44 AM

View Postskookum, on 03 July 2013 - 05:37 AM, said:

Posted Image

There again if the above was the kind of rubbish they were looking into, you can see why the MOD pulled the plug.
Shame topsecretresearch isn't around any more, that'd be one for his files.

Still, at least they seem to be friendly.

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#47    quillius

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 09:10 AM

View PostTim Hebert, on 02 July 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

Alright, let's start off fresh here and my apologies for sounding abrasive.  First off there is no link concerning  "these other people" because "they" have never come forward to provide any form of substance to Salas' claim.  Salas had been asked about this problem, but never had a coherent answer why these individuals never came forward.

Why do I know that there were other people?  At each topside alert facility (Launch Control Facility, now days, Missile Alert Facility) there would be 8 individuals on site ( 2 Flight Security Controllers, 4 Armed Response personnel, Facility Manager, and site cook).  Salas' story hinges on one of the FSCs calling in a report that a UFO is hovering in front of the LCF's entry gate and that one of the security personnel was injured.

To this day, these individuals have never come forward to corroborate the story, though they certainly where there.  It's the identity of "they" that is one of the burning questions.  And...there is no supporting evidence that anyone was injured and taken off the site to seek medical attention.

Regards,

Tim H.

Hello Tim,  I may have something confused here but I thought it was confirmed that one of the officers did report a UFO. I was sure this happened and Carlson said it was merely a prank. If we ignore the interpretation of whether it was a prank or not, does the fact that a UFO reported is 'corroboration' at least as far as the report goes?
(also I appreciate that it is said the UFO was not mentioned in any following reports, supporting the prank interpretation)

thanks


#48    Admiral Rhubarb

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 09:43 AM

How did this become another discussion on that missile business yet again?

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

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#49    quillius

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 09:46 AM

View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 03 July 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

How did this become another discussion on that missile business yet again?

its a dirty job but someones got to do it :whistle:



edit to add: we could move it onto ancient rocks :innocent:

Edited by quillius, 03 July 2013 - 09:46 AM.


#50    Tim Hebert

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 02:59 AM

View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 03 July 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

How did this become another discussion on that missile business yet again?

My apologies as I may have spurred this discussion by replying to another post referencing "that missile business."  I need to show good manners and answer Quillius' question then I let things be for another time and place.

View Postquillius, on 03 July 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

Hello Tim,  I may have something confused here but I thought it was confirmed that one of the officers did report a UFO. I was sure this happened and Carlson said it was merely a prank. If we ignore the interpretation of whether it was a prank or not, does the fact that a UFO reported is 'corroboration' at least as far as the report goes?
(also I appreciate that it is said the UFO was not mentioned in any following reports, supporting the prank interpretation)

thanks

Could you be thinking of Echo Flight?  I was referring to Oscar Flight.  Both Salas and Meiwald had a UFO component to two different stories at Oscar.  When reading Salas' first interview with Meiwald back in the 1990s it was obvious that both gentlemen were not aware of each other's story.  Both men had telephone conversations with the FSC, though apparently at different times.

I tend to lean towards a hoax/prank at Oscar Flight.  Perhaps I can provide more details of my thoughts in another thread.

Best regards,

Tim


#51    psyche101

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 04:38 AM

View Postquillius, on 03 July 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

Hello Tim,  I may have something confused here but I thought it was confirmed that one of the officers did report a UFO. I was sure this happened and Carlson said it was merely a prank. If we ignore the interpretation of whether it was a prank or not, does the fact that a UFO reported is 'corroboration' at least as far as the report goes?
(also I appreciate that it is said the UFO was not mentioned in any following reports, supporting the prank interpretation)

thanks

Gidday Mate

I assume this is the one you are thinking of. It is asTim said, Echo.

Posted Image

Edited by psyche101, 04 July 2013 - 04:39 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#52    psyche101

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 04:55 AM

View PostScudbuster, on 02 July 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

C'mon Psyche, you know me better than that.

If you have something different, send it along or post it.

No offence intended, I'm just pointing out that Tim does indeed happen to be an expert in this area. It was his information that I feel brought the entire claim undone at the seams, with regards to how the missiles are wired. Technically, it does not work how the UFO people claimed, personally, I still believe the local power company who were working on transformers in the vicinity are very likely to have unknowingly been the cause. Or even perhaps knowingly, as reparations could have cost them quite a lot of money.

I have this, regarding the "evidence" Hastings and Salas have to back the UFO claims up. If you are familiar with Hastings claims, you would be quite aware that he holds the testimony of Walt Figel as crucial to the case right?, Well, this is what Walt Figel says. Like I said, for such and "important witness" one has to wonder why he was not invited to the 2010 conference.




Quote

Walter Figel Responds

I wrote an email to Figel and cc’d Eric and James asking Figel, point blank, why he said what he said in those recordings. He responded to me, asking for the link. James responded to his request with the following email, providing Figel with the transcripts.
James wrote:


Robert Salas just published the following transcripts of a conversation he had with you in 1996. He never mentioned anything about your testimony until well after 2002.
Did you actually do this interview, and if so, why is it so different from what you have repeatedly told me, and from what my father has repeatedly claimed?


James ends his email with a comment that makes it very clear to me that he’s not only being as truthful as he can be, but he’s only interested in the truth, and clearing his family name – he has no interest in UFOs or “debunking” the nuclear missile stories found throughout Ufology. He is only interested in the case that his own father was a primary witness to. James continues:






I would very much appreciate some clarity here. I understand that you don’t want to get involved, but you are involved. You can’t get rid of that involvement, not after you’ve basically said that my Dad is a liar. I don’t care what a bunch of wack-jobs waiting for the next flying saucer pick-up have to say about me, because they’ve been doing that for years, but I will not just sit and let them do the same thing to my father.
If you are not willing to fix this — and that means making a cohesive statement of one thing or another, and calling Salas and Hastings and telling them, one way or the other, then please tell me, because this back and forth is ridiculous. These people are telling everybody that I never spoke to you — that I have made the whole thing up from the very beginning. If I am that dissociative, somebody should tell me


Walt finally responded at length to both James and I. He listed the major points that he believes are at issue here. Figel clearly states as of Sept 24th, 2010 – that not only does he believe UFO’s were not involved at Echo Flight, but Figel also reveals some shocking insight into some of Salas’ other claims regarding issuesbeyond the Echo Flight case. Here is what Figel had to say on the matter.






James,
First – your dad has not lied about anything nor do believe that he is even capable of lying about anything at all. He was, is, and always will be an honorable man. You should remember that always – I will.
Second – Bob Salas was never associated with any shutdown of any missiles at any time in any flight and you can take that to the bank. Just think about this for a split second. He is a person wrapped up in UFOs to the Nth degree. Yet he could not remember he was not at Echo. Then he thought he was at November – wrong again. Then he thought he was at Oscar – wrong again.
Third – There is no record about anything happening at November or Oscar except in people’s minds that are flawed beyond imagination. Salas has created events out of the thin air and can’t get the facts straight even then. My best friend to this day was the flight commander of the 10th SMS at the time. He and I have discussed this silly assertion in the past couple of years – he thinks it is all madeup nonsense for sure. I put both Salas and Hastings in touch with him and he has told them both that an incident at November or Oscar never happened. In addition he was subsequently stationed at Norton AFB where the engineers tested the possible problems. No little green men were responsible.
Fourth – I have always maintained that I do not nor have I ever believed that UFOs exist in any form at any place at any time. I have never seen one or reported that I have seen one. I have always maintained that they had nothing to do with the shutdown of Echo flight in Montana.
Fifth – The event at Malmstrom has a hand written log from me that was turned in just like all the other logs that I wrote over several years. I would think that if I wrote something like that in the log, there would be copies, it would have been classified at the beginning and then released along with the classified SAC messages and base reports. Nothing in that urgent SAC message even hints of UFOs at all and I think that it would if the official logs or telephone calls had referenced that fact.
Sixth – When it happened, neither your dad nor I were “visibly shaken” by the events. It was just another day with a unexpected event in our lives. It was rather underwhelming at the time. No one rushed out to see us, no one made us sign any papers, no one interrogated us for hours on end.
There is no Air Force “cover-up” it just did not happen the way Salas and has portrayed the course of events. I am sorry that you are all caught up in a p***ing contest with these people, I really am. They are just not going to let go no matter what you say or do. He has made a 15 year career pandering about the country talking about things he has no knowledge about. I am not at all interested in taking them on – it’s not worth my effort – I have more important things to do with my life. I much rather just stay out of it.
Hopefully, we can move on. I did read about a briefing on the 27th here in DC. I am here in VA about 10 miles away. Interesting. Hopefully this helps you and confirms to you at least that your dad is a straight shooter and does not lie to anyone.
Sincerely,
Walt Figel


While I am still personally not satisfied with the lack of explanation for why he said what he said to Hastings and Salas back in 1996 and 2008 – there is plenty of room for speculation. Maybe the ground crew were joking (he did say he didn’t take them seriously) and Figel was reporting to Hastings and Salas what he thought they wanted to hear – that someone mentioned “UFOs” related to Echo flight.

LINK


Edited by psyche101, 04 July 2013 - 05:02 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#53    quillius

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 08:14 AM

View PostTim Hebert, on 04 July 2013 - 02:59 AM, said:

My apologies as I may have spurred this discussion by replying to another post referencing "that missile business."  I need to show good manners and answer Quillius' question then I let things be for another time and place.

The courtesy is both noted and appreciated Tim...........

View PostTim Hebert, on 04 July 2013 - 02:59 AM, said:


Could you be thinking of Echo Flight?  I was referring to Oscar Flight.  Both Salas and Meiwald had a UFO component to two different stories at Oscar.  When reading Salas' first interview with Meiwald back in the 1990s it was obvious that both gentlemen were not aware of each other's story.  Both men had telephone conversations with the FSC, though apparently at different times.

I tend to lean towards a hoax/prank at Oscar Flight.  Perhaps I can provide more details of my thoughts in another thread.

Best regards,

Tim

especially when one confuses the two incidents.....I was indeed talking about Echo Flight as per the previosu thread a while back when we debated it quite a bit.  Anyhow, my mistake will pay more attention next time


View Postpsyche101, on 04 July 2013 - 04:38 AM, said:

Gidday Mate

I assume this is the one you are thinking of. It is asTim said, Echo.



indeed, my mistake....not posted for a couple of weeks so must be ring rusty :) (or at least thats my excuse)





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