10148 replies to this topic

[psyche101]

zoser, on 02 December 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

Let me repeat the question.  How did you suppose the ancients made perfectly circular tubes?

Why do you think copper could not be used? It is maleable. It can be heated and easily shaped perfectly around a mould. You do not have to make a thing round if you can find something round to bash it into shape. Do you know that the terms "Leading edge" and "Abrasion" Mean?

Diamond is much harder than any of this, yet how is it possible for modern man to cut Diamond? Nothing harder exists! Is ET working in Jeweller shops all over the globe? It does not matter if you have a drill that is a billion revolutions a minute does it? A steel drill bit is not going to mark it is it? Is my wife's wedding ring an ET manufactured item?

Do you know how to saw cut a Diamond Zoser? You use a phosphor-bronze blade. Yes, today. How does Bronze cut Diamond Zoser? And down to those tiny little facets? Such detail! Does this mean all Jewellers must be alien?

zoser, on 02 December 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

You skeptics are digging a deeper and deeper (bore) hole for yourselves, that you are never going to get out of.

Amazing you still canot see what is going on around you. That "hole" that you think is getting deeper is just those rising above you and out of the darkness, which you are trying to keep everyone in, for company I assume. All we are seeing is that you are not simply ignorant, but deliberately ignorant. Examples have been placed before you, but you have no intention of attempting to understand them you are much happier claiming them science fiction and trying to come up with some philosophical BS to make yourself sound clever.
That BS stopped being clever about 500 years ago.
People have been very patient trying to explain this to you in baby speak, but surprisingly to all, even that is insufficient. I can only echo Imaginarynumber1;s sentiment in that I believe you are simply trolling. Nobody is dim witted enough to continue to support Joe Escimilla, let alone that shameless and ousted charlatan Stitchin. You have now clearly exposed your agenda here. For you to advocate that clown is outright proof that you have no interest in the subject whatsoever, only the controversy you can stir up within it.

zoser, on 02 December 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

You are making claims that you can never substantiate.

Understand is the word you are seeking and you context appear to be following your claims. Back to front.

All claims have been substantiated. Your limited experience and knowledge has also been adequately qualified. I feel embarrassed for you with some of the statements you have made in this thread. Such as this very one I am responding to right now. If you had a case you would take one of those examples and show us in detail why it is not a viable option. Instead you have chosen the option to whine without cause. That alone says everything a person needs to know. You wish to remain deliberately ignorant, and that is your prerogative.

Considering substantiation, do you realise the significance of this particular offcut?



or this one, both of which answer your inane objections?

zoser, on 02 December 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

This is why AA authors sell millions of books.

I beg your pardon? Where do you get that statistic from? I do not even know a person personally who has seen a single episode. It does not even air on FTA TV here to the best of my knowledge, you would have to pay for it. And that is a horrendous waste of money. I have thought of downloading the series from torrent sites, but I have decided it is not even worth the download. Tempting as it is to have a good laugh at Giorgio's hair, but nothing else about the show is enticing to any but the most intellectually limited. Only a handful are dim enough to actually swallow this claptrap. I think you will find that out the the majority of those who do enjoy a good fable in this vein do so for entertainment value.

zoser, on 02 December 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

This is why there is a growing movement away from orthodox archaelology.

That is a blatant lie, outright. Made up by yourself to try to get more people to hold your hand in the dark. You're on you're own Zoser. Maybe Bee will visit you.

Please prove this claim Zoser. It is not only a lie, it is offensive. Your personal wishes do not constitute a movement. Your view of the UFO phenomena might, but not with the same meaning, but I digress.

zoser, on 02 December 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

Every attempt to substantiate the mundane methods that the ancients were supposed to have used runs up against major technical flaws and for the simple reason that they have not been properly thought through.  It's all just a question of ad hoc assumptions when put to the test.

Good God man. You have no problem at all with making things up on the fly do you?

Another lie, you saying "I don't believe it" does not constitute a valid rebuttal. It's like a neon sign displaying your personal ignorance of the subject. And this is the only reason yo do not believe it, you refuse to allow yourself to understand it. They are not Ad Hoc assumptions, these are methods still in use in the region today. You have even been provided with photo's proving the practise remains in use. That you are too lazy to understand, and put it into practise in no way negates the facts provided. All that has been negated is your evaluation. And by way of nonsense. Quite frankly, if I got things wrong as often, and as blatantly as you, I would be trying to learn by now. I have only seen you go backwards, and the only poster in the history of UM to do so to date.

zoser, on 02 December 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

And worst of all I am being distracted from my TT thread and I need to get back to it.

Do not let the door hit you on the behind on your way out.

And people say I'm not compassionate!

Edited by psyche101, 03 December 2012 - 03:50 AM.

[psyche101]

Babe Ruth, on 01 December 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

Agree 100%.  I offer the same unsolicited advice to any and all.

I do hope you are genuine and willing to stick by your word.

Babe Ruth, on 01 December 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

I'm willing to accept that the old man who created the Coral Castle in Homestead had somehow discovered and mastered some method for defeating gravity.  Perhaps it was the same method involved in building the pyramids and other similar sites all 'round the planet.

Method for defeating gravity? He admitted it was simple leverage, and yes, the same principals have been used on many ancient Monolithic sites. That is a pretty dramatic way of putting it.

Babe Ruth, on 01 December 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

But common sense suggests humans were given this knowledge by mentors.  I doubt hunter-gatherers would have stumbled upon the method as they were out chasing animals.

I beg your pardon. How on earth did you come to that conclusion? I see no evidence for such a wild assumption.

You doubt? You do not think a hunter gatherer one day went "Screw this. I am sick of chasing these mongrel things. I am going to pen a few up so I can find them easy". Or did a wife one time throw out the leftovers and notice the seeds propagated? Leading her to think "Hey, this is the go, bugger traipsing the countryside if I can get what I want right here, I am going to drop more seeds".

Babe Ruth, on 01 December 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

Considering that diamond-tipped bits would be necessary to cut stones with such precision, common sense tells me that hunter-gatherers were not in possession of such diamond tools.  Nor do excavations reveal any such tools.

Diamond is used to cut diamond. What is your objection to sand cutting sand? You have seen the tools what remains do you expect? I showed you a roman power tool, I do not think I ever received a response, what would you even expect from that other than plans?

Babe Ruth, on 01 December 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

Common Sense!  Yessir, I'm all for it.

I'd like to see you discuss a subject if that is the case. Unless I am mistaken I have left a lengthy response on this subject before, which I believe you never responded to. I understand such is purely voluntary, however if you truly do wish to discuss the subject with common sense, I would have expected you to have responded to that post. If you do have something genuine that remains an enigma with regards to this particular subject I urge you to share your discovery. And in the interests of common sense, I suspect that you would be willing to hear as many sound possibilites as do exist.

[psyche101]

Questfortruth, on 02 December 2012 - 04:59 AM, said:

The evidence need not be physical, as the skeptic with ones head buried in the sand will force their mind to see and believe whatever they want it to, it is one of the greatest weaknesses of mankind.

I see, and that is why you provided rhetoric as opposed to actual examples?

Unlike sceptics who at least provided photographic examples, theory and working diagrams, which you yourself can try out at home. But obviously have not based on the above statement. Which is starting to sound a lot like Hypocrisy, wouldn't you say?

Questfortruth, on 02 December 2012 - 04:59 AM, said:

The evidence surrounding the ancient astronaut theory is very simple and inarguable. Most believers make the mistake of making the arguement too complicated and fantastic, much like religion.

If that is the case, why is that claptrap still being touted on Entertainment channels on TV and not by Berkley?

But I agree it has many parallells with religion. It is made up, and people try to push it as real.

And I think you will find that the sceptics you refer to here have not at all claimed it is complex in any way. Rather the opposite, and only expressed amazement that others could be taken in by such. AA proponents who are completely ignorant to construction and history find this complex perhaps.

Questfortruth, on 02 December 2012 - 04:59 AM, said:

When in reality to simplistic evidence is all that is needed to assure the BASIC accuracy of the theory; Every single civilization since the beginning of time has documentation of humaniod beings coming from the skies and meddling in the affairs of man, posing as Gods. Their fantastic abilities easily explained by todays technology and that which is imminent in the future.

That's just another lie. You know I would like to see people prove these claims, or I think they should be charged as criminals and locked up. This is outright theft of MY right to understand heritages from across the globe and better understand the rise of man for some stupid made up alien fantasy. People who insist these stupid stories that they have reinterpreted from indigenous legend I feel are the lowest scumbags on the earth. Scratch that, as it is an insult to all bags on earth filled with scum.

In fact I think you have prompted me enough to contact my local MP.SO many have made claims that I would like to gather and use that number, including yourself, to make a complaint to the NAAJA to see if they would be interested in helping me draught and propose legislation to stop the vandalism of sacred sites, and re-writing of their historical record. It's about time someone stood up to you lot of vandals destroying culture to sell some stupid books and programs to see your name on the telly. Really, the people that do yhis should be named and shamed, and I hope I can get them made responsible for and damage done to date.
Rex Gilroy's bank book would be smarting something terrible, I know that much.

You know what that "native record" tells me? That AA people are so low that they have no thought about what they are willing to destroy to get what they want. That is downright disgusting, and something people should be ashamed of.

Questfortruth, on 02 December 2012 - 04:59 AM, said:

When one hears of a God described as a bronze bird spitting fire that blocked out the sun and shook the ground, not making the connection can only be explained by denial, and fear. The so called "theory" is so simple compared to every other explaination that has been offered to us, our minds have simply been trained since birth to reject such things.

Denial and fear of what? That is dead set on of the most stupid pieces of believer rhetoric in the believer handbook. That sort of inane comment makes all believers look like right fools.

Fear that ohh noes, Alienzzz was here hundred of years ago, and we were wrongzerz about it allzz!

If AA had a decent explanation for the stupid crap they put out Giorgio would not be the "Is This Possible" Poster boy. This forum would not exist. The so called "theory", which be definition it most certainly is not, is indeed simple, and so simple most can see the shopping centre sized holes in it. Some people seem to be able to convince themselves these holes do not exist. If they did not, I would not be typing this right now would I?

The most "Simple" explanation for megalithic sites is man! We still move big heavy things today. How do you suppose an electrician manhandles something like this into the small switch-room in the basement of a building???



Some brains are just still refusing to work, and are happy to immediately attribute anything beyond their understanding to a higher power, and then claim it was the answer all along, when all it be is another question and answers nothing.

Our minds are not trained to reject such things as aliens, in case you had not noticed we have global space agencies and an active space station. If anything, entertainment has offered a glitzy view of this imaginative ideal of space, and with CGI people have an unrealistic view of space and what is in it.  

Questfortruth, on 02 December 2012 - 04:59 AM, said:

To delve deeper, I challenge anyone on this earth to explain how we evolved into intelligent creatures overnight in terms of evolution. Where as every other thing takes hundreds of millions of years to make the slightest change our evolution occured at a literal magical rate.

It was anything but overnight, it was millions of years. Some cite Lucy as the first of our species, but Lucy did not just suddenly exist either. She marks the emergence of Homo, the Great Apes. Our roots go back to the day of the Dinosaur. Primates emerged from other mammals about 85 million years ago. Earliest rudimentary forms of tools would not show up for another 30 million years. There is no magical rate. And we are the first species to attain intelligence due to our body plan. What benchmark are you using?

[psyche101]

zoser, on 01 December 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

That's right; Dunn refers to it as 'tool wander'.  It's obvious that this will happen in a rotating unstabilised tool that is guided only by hand.

Quote

*This is a reference to Jeff Rense, host of the Sightings radio program. I suggested to Jeff Rense that he air a debate between Chris Dunn and me, but Jeff Rense interviewed Chris Dunn instead on May 30, 2000.
During that interview, Jeff Rense encouraged students to challenge their teachers with the evidence Chris Dunn presents.

Whilst I am sure you advocate such, I only think that this waste if time has value in showing Dunn's rubbish to be what it is. When people like start getting involved with young minds like this I think it is deplorable. If one must have such silly fantasies to escape the realities of life so be it, but one has not right to force this disability onto young learning minds.

Edited by psyche101, 03 December 2012 - 05:37 AM.

[Slave2Fate]

psyche101, on 03 December 2012 - 05:12 AM, said:

*snipped some good stuff here

In fact I think you have prompted me enough to contact my local MP.SO many have made claims that I would like to gather and use that number, including yourself, to make a complaint to the NAAJA to see if they would be interested in helping me draught and propose legislation to stop the vandalism of sacred sites, and re-writing of their historical record. It's about time someone stood up to you lot of vandals destroying culture to sell some stupid books and programs to see your name on the telly. Really, the people that do yhis should be named and shamed, and I hope I can get them made responsible for and damage done to date.
Rex Gilroy's bank book would be smarting something terrible, I know that much.

You know what that "native record" tells me? That AA people are so low that they have no thought about what they are willing to destroy to get what they want. That is downright disgusting, and something people should be ashamed of.

*snipped some good bits here too

Well said psyche.

I find the twisting of ancient cultures to force fit them into any alien hypothesis to be downright deplorable. Most often the claims are rooted quite firmly in ignorance and omission of facts without regard for historical accuracy or truth. It's charlatanism, without a doubt.

Edited by Slave2Fate, 03 December 2012 - 06:48 AM.

[psyche101]

Slave2Fate, on 03 December 2012 - 06:46 AM, said:

Well said psyche.

I find the twisting of ancient cultures to force fit them into any alien hypothesis to be downright deplorable. Most often the claims are rooted quite firmly in ignorance and omission of facts without regard for historical accuracy or truth. It's charlatanism, without a doubt.

Gidday Mate

It is pretty darn bad IMHO. and I am getting a little worried that many future generations will miss out on true culture to be fed some ancient aliens crap. I have kids, and I want them to have a well rounded education. If they want to offload their knowledge at a later date, that is fine with me, but I think everyone should get a reasonable head-start before this sort of nonsense is allowed to creep in.

Definitely going to complain to my Government, and Rex Gilroy will be at the top of my list. In fact, I am not sure why these clowns have been allowed to rape culture in the first instance. It's nothing short of vandalism.

Cheers.

[Babe Ruth]

DingoLingo, on 02 December 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

No the only reason why AA authors sell millions of books is because the world is filled by gullible people who are so bored.. upset or lost that they need to believe that there is some mythical race of aliens out there who are going to fix the worlds problems..

There is no proof.. and I really mean.. no proof that aliens helped many throughout the ages..

and I mean.. no  proof..

so to be honest.. until you can proove it without a doubt.. ie.. a piece of machinery.. or tool of non earthly construction.. your just blowing smoke..

There is circumstantial evidence of alien visitation, perhaps even direct evidence.  That some folks do not accept that evidence, or rationalize it away, does not really change anything.

[badeskov]

Babe Ruth, on 03 December 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

There is circumstantial evidence of alien visitation, perhaps even direct evidence.

Nope. And if we had direct evidence, you wouldn't need the caveat of your perhaps in that sentence.

Quote

That some folks do not accept that evidence, or rationalize it away, does not really change anything.

It's not rationalized away, it is simply not there.

Cheers,
Badeskov

[Gaden]

Slave2Fate, on 03 December 2012 - 06:46 AM, said:

Well said psyche.

I find the twisting of ancient cultures to force fit them into any alien hypothesis to be downright deplorable. Most often the claims are rooted quite firmly in ignorance and omission of facts without regard for historical accuracy or truth. It's charlatanism, without a doubt.

As I headed into the computer room this morning, I was formulating in my mind a post dealing with these people and how, in my opinion, they are all guilty of criminal fraud. (Not related to this subject, but Hoagland tops the list)  Then I read  psyche 101's diatribe. I may yet do something along these lines, but it won't be as good. Thank you, sir, well done.

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

AquilaChrysaetos, on 02 December 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

I myself am a sorta unique kind of Christian, but a Christian none the less. Even if the Ancient Alien theory were true, it doesn't suddenly refute the existance of God, angels, Chirst being the son of God, or the afterlife.

indeed, as I always say, it would make no difference whether early Humans did come from some other Planet from that point of view, since a God that only applied tot his planet would be a fairly limited sort of God, and surely the point of God is that he would eb the God of the whole Universe, and obviously, God would take human form to humans, that's only logical since that would be the only way they could comprehend him.

LRW, on 03 December 2012 - 01:50 AM, said:

  Mars is an extraterrestrial planet

Indeed it is, yes.

[synchronomy]

I would appear to me, that this thread has really thrashed out the debate on the AA theory.
I am wondering if any members that have been following this thread have been convinced to change their views one way or another.

So if you believed in the AA theories, and now lean towards conventional theories that ancient man build everything themselves, then please chime in.

Likewise, if you adhered to the conventional theories that ancient man was responsible for their own architecture, and now believe ancient aliens helped them with it, let us know.

[Slave2Fate]

synchronomy, on 03 December 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

I would appear to me, that this thread has really thrashed out the debate on the AA theory.
I am wondering if any members that have been following this thread have been convinced to change their views one way or another.

So if you believed in the AA theories, and now lean towards conventional theories that ancient man build everything themselves, then please chime in.

Likewise, if you adhered to the conventional theories that ancient man was responsible for their own architecture, and now believe ancient aliens helped them with it, let us know.

I'm always curious to know if any of the silent observers ever change their perspective because of the contributions to any individual thread. I would like to think so, there is an awful lot of amazing information put forth around here. Or perhaps they sit back with a smirk on their face as this is all just entertainment for them. Little bit of both probably.

[zoser]

Slave2Fate, on 02 December 2012 - 09:18 PM, said:

This makes a round hole. Your ignorance inexperience with hand tools is showing...

So has the copper tube idea been abandoned then?  Instead a quick trip to Wall Mart for a hole cutter?

These are actually designed for wood; they may struggle a bit with red granite.  Also it's no good Wall Mart picking a hardened steel tool, it would have had to have been copper.

Edited by zoser, 03 December 2012 - 06:43 PM.

[zoser]

synchronomy, on 03 December 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

I would appear to me, that this thread has really thrashed out the debate on the AA theory.
I am wondering if any members that have been following this thread have been convinced to change their views one way or another.

So if you believed in the AA theories, and now lean towards conventional theories that ancient man build everything themselves, then please chime in.

Likewise, if you adhered to the conventional theories that ancient man was responsible for their own architecture, and now believe ancient aliens helped them with it, let us know.

The tribe of ancients that built Puma Punku was the Aymara.  Here are their ancestors, 2000 (conservatively) years developed from what they were back then:







Master Builders par excellence.

[zoser]

psyche101, on 03 December 2012 - 03:40 AM, said:

Why do you think copper could not be used? It is maleable. It can be heated and easily shaped perfectly around a mould. You do not have to make a thing round if you can find something round to bash it into shape. Do you know that the terms "Leading edge" and "Abrasion" Mean?

Diamond is much harder than any of this, yet how is it possible for modern man to cut Diamond? Nothing harder exists! Is ET working in Jeweller shops all over the globe? It does not matter if you have a drill that is a billion revolutions a minute does it? A steel drill bit is not going to mark it is it? Is my wife's wedding ring an ET manufactured item?

Do you know how to saw cut a Diamond Zoser? You use a phosphor-bronze blade. Yes, today. How does Bronze cut Diamond Zoser? And down to those tiny little facets? Such detail! Does this mean all Jewellers must be alien?



Amazing you still canot see what is going on around you. That "hole" that you think is getting deeper is just those rising above you and out of the darkness, which you are trying to keep everyone in, for company I assume. All we are seeing is that you are not simply ignorant, but deliberately ignorant. Examples have been placed before you, but you have no intention of attempting to understand them you are much happier claiming them science fiction and trying to come up with some philosophical BS to make yourself sound clever.
That BS stopped being clever about 500 years ago.
People have been very patient trying to explain this to you in baby speak, but surprisingly to all, even that is insufficient. I can only echo Imaginarynumber1;s sentiment in that I believe you are simply trolling. Nobody is dim witted enough to continue to support Joe Escimilla, let alone that shameless and ousted charlatan Stitchin. You have now clearly exposed your agenda here. For you to advocate that clown is outright proof that you have no interest in the subject whatsoever, only the controversy you can stir up within it.



Understand is the word you are seeking and you context appear to be following your claims. Back to front.

All claims have been substantiated. Your limited experience and knowledge has also been adequately qualified. I feel embarrassed for you with some of the statements you have made in this thread. Such as this very one I am responding to right now. If you had a case you would take one of those examples and show us in detail why it is not a viable option. Instead you have chosen the option to whine without cause. That alone says everything a person needs to know. You wish to remain deliberately ignorant, and that is your prerogative.

Considering substantiation, do you realise the significance of this particular offcut?



or this one, both of which answer your inane objections?





I beg your pardon? Where do you get that statistic from? I do not even know a person personally who has seen a single episode. It does not even air on FTA TV here to the best of my knowledge, you would have to pay for it. And that is a horrendous waste of money. I have thought of downloading the series from torrent sites, but I have decided it is not even worth the download. Tempting as it is to have a good laugh at Giorgio's hair, but nothing else about the show is enticing to any but the most intellectually limited. Only a handful are dim enough to actually swallow this claptrap. I think you will find that out the the majority of those who do enjoy a good fable in this vein do so for entertainment value.



That is a blatant lie, outright. Made up by yourself to try to get more people to hold your hand in the dark. You're on you're own Zoser. Maybe Bee will visit you.

Please prove this claim Zoser. It is not only a lie, it is offensive. Your personal wishes do not constitute a movement. Your view of the UFO phenomena might, but not with the same meaning, but I digress.



Good God man. You have no problem at all with making things up on the fly do you?

Another lie, you saying "I don't believe it" does not constitute a valid rebuttal. It's like a neon sign displaying your personal ignorance of the subject. And this is the only reason yo do not believe it, you refuse to allow yourself to understand it. They are not Ad Hoc assumptions, these are methods still in use in the region today. You have even been provided with photo's proving the practise remains in use. That you are too lazy to understand, and put it into practise in no way negates the facts provided. All that has been negated is your evaluation. And by way of nonsense. Quite frankly, if I got things wrong as often, and as blatantly as you, I would be trying to learn by now. I have only seen you go backwards, and the only poster in the history of UM to do so to date.



Do not let the door hit you on the behind on your way out.

And people say I'm not compassionate!