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Christopagan thread


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#16    xFelix

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 08:35 AM

View Postbraveone2u, on 02 May 2013 - 07:45 PM, said:

Hello Britney,

You may want to check out Santeria and Candomble. Also, many practitioners of yoga, including kundalini and siddha, remain in their central Christian religion...until they realize what their Christian religion is all about. Even within the Christian faith, there are "pagan-like" practices (and I'm being politically correct here without naming sects, congregations, etc.). So yes, Christopaganism is out there.

When I was a practicing pagan, the only thing Christian I found important was the Holy Spirit because I once believed that the mystical "Flow" was exactly it. Church was out of the question because of time. Practicing pagan rituals and self knowledge is consuming. Who has the time to "serve two masters"? I celebrated Easter and Christmas as eternity of the soul (Christ consciousness) and reincarnation; besides, the "outer" trimmings of those holidays are pagan based. My family knew my former pagan status, and it was something I was absolutely proud to admit because I got results. In that line of paganism, material results are extremely important; otherwise, one's practice is all in the mind, as in "mental." And I mean GREAT results: psychic gifts are part of that equation. Unless something otherworldly or life-changing happens to a person, leaving that type of paganism (channeling with wizardry) is unthinkable. With all the goodies and all -- I think, not. On the other hand, without the will of "a god," one's pagan practice is ABSOLUTELY fruitless. By the way, I'm selling all of my crystals and minerals and things on my website, for I am traveling lightly nowadays.


Peace.

I'm sorry but you are wrong about Santeria being Christopagan. The Rules of Lucumi is a pagan faith that only syncretizes for the sake of outsiders getting a general idea of what the different beings are. Even then, the syncretizing is almost always exclusive to just comparing Lucumi saints to Catholic saints.

For example, my guardian angel is Ochosi. The angel of divine justice, hunting, animals, the forest, and witchcraft. His closest catholic counterparts are Saint Norbert & Saint John The Baptist. There are plenty of similarities between the two, but as you read further you begin to understand that they are not the same being and it was just a mild comparison in hopes that people will open their minds about who the Lucumi Saints really are and stop calling them demons. The comparisons started when the African slaves were basically being told you are christian or you are dead. When they were forced in such a manner they even went as far as including a crucifix into their practice(among other things), and some people today still use the crucifix out of ignorance. Once again I will repeat: The Rules of Lucumi(Santeria) and Palo Monte(Paleria) have absolutely nothing to do with christianity, in fact it is the complete opposite... Why would they truly hold any faith to a religion that threatened death upon them?

My posts consist of my opinions, beliefs, and experiences, feel free to disagree in a respectful manner.

I have a right to my beleifs, just as you have a right to not agree with them.

So long as we respect each other's beliefs, we won't have a single problem.


#17    Jessica Christ

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 05:48 PM

View Postbraveone2u, on 07 May 2013 - 12:17 AM, said:

That is funny, but it's so true about the "yard sale."

I'm also willing to match or beat other sellers' online prices, and BTW, I a couple of bigger crystals, but they're very heavy and costly to ship -- I will upload more pictures when I get the time. In my case, once a piece is sold, it's gone for good.

Thank you for the encouragement, Darkwind! You have a great evening.


I cannot find the link to any of this? Would like to see the artistic items.

Also your Revisionist Megamix was nice to listen too. Every song on it we have, on original compact disc.

On the other hand the Stendal Blast Re-Uncut video you had on earlier also sounded nice, what kind of music is that? Reminds me of witch house music. which can be very nice. (Note: witch house has nothing to do with paganism, witches, or witchcraft, it is just a genre of music.)

View PostxFelix, on 07 May 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

I'm sorry but you are wrong about Santeria being Christopagan.

You might have a mild point. My sister does not consider herself Christian. It was never her choice to be part of a church and left just as soon as she could.

On the other hand Santeria is not just as simple or as plain as you portrayed. Adherents of it (Regla de Ocha, Regla Lucumi) in Cuba seemed to have been disappointed the Pope did not meet with them on one of the papal visits to Cuba. They are the most popular religion in Cuba and at times have tried to attend Catholic masses while wearing their robes...

However it came to be, Santeria is a form of syncretism.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!, 07 May 2013 - 05:51 PM.


#18    Artaxerxes

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 06:12 PM

Well seeing as how Christianity has a history of absorbing the pagan religions it comes in contact with I can easily see the connection.  Christianity itself is a matrix of all the religions that were common during the first century, Mithraism, Isis and Osiris worship, Horus, Judaism, and some Greek influence.    The myths in the gospels like the virgin birth were common during the first century.   The story of Jesus and the story of Horus have many easily recognizable parallels.  

As for Jesus himself?  My personal belief is that he was a little Jewish Rabbi that probably had a very deep and profound near death experience while up on that cross and after they cut him down they flopped him on the ground and that was enough to restart his heart and he was in a deep coma for three days and he woke up talking about what he had seen and experienced during his NDE.  

The New Testament is at it's very heart a highly embellished and out of sequence near death experience story and Christianity at it's very heart is a near death experience religion.

Art


#19    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 10:12 PM

View PostxFelix, on 07 May 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

I'm sorry but you are wrong about Santeria being Christopagan. The Rules of Lucumi is a pagan faith that only syncretizes for the sake of outsiders getting a general idea of what the different beings are. Even then, the syncretizing is almost always exclusive to just comparing Lucumi saints to Catholic saints.

For example, my guardian angel is Ochosi. The angel of divine justice, hunting, animals, the forest, and witchcraft. His closest catholic counterparts are Saint Norbert & Saint John The Baptist. There are plenty of similarities between the two, but as you read further you begin to understand that they are not the same being and it was just a mild comparison in hopes that people will open their minds about who the Lucumi Saints really are and stop calling them demons. The comparisons started when the African slaves were basically being told you are christian or you are dead. When they were forced in such a manner they even went as far as including a crucifix into their practice(among other things), and some people today still use the crucifix out of ignorance. Once again I will repeat: The Rules of Lucumi(Santeria) and Palo Monte(Paleria) have absolutely nothing to do with christianity, in fact it is the complete opposite... Why would they truly hold any faith to a religion that threatened death upon them?
Hi xFelix,

Fundamentally, you're right, but the fact remains that they use Christian symbols in abundance, and more often than not, many Santerians designate themselves as Catholics -- many hold 2 religions. This thread is about Christopagan, and I assumed that it's about religions or paths that mixed faiths to gain a higher and safe state of consciousness.

Speaking of Catholicism, one might even argue that it's a pagan religion...but...I'm not pointing the finger here; it's just common gossip, after all.


Peace.

https://www.youtube....ix3pVUX86yBWWzS  (playlist)

Distinguish between spin doctoring and truth. Keep in mind that truth is ALMOST impossible to figure out when it comes to ancient holy book.

#20    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 10:19 PM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 07 May 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

I cannot find the link to any of this? Would like to see the artistic items.

Also your Revisionist Megamix was nice to listen too. Every song on it we have, on original compact disc.

On the other hand the Stendal Blast Re-Uncut video you had on earlier also sounded nice, what kind of music is that? Reminds me of witch house music. which can be very nice. (Note: witch house has nothing to do with paganism, witches, or witchcraft, it is just a genre of music.)

Hi Britney,

Glad you enjoyed the megamix -- thank you. The Stendal Blast song is old-skool Dark Wave. My website is, by the way, theplazafilms; however, the link is on my Vimeo main page. I'm not allowed to link my "4 Sale" pages here.

Peace.

https://www.youtube....ix3pVUX86yBWWzS  (playlist)

Distinguish between spin doctoring and truth. Keep in mind that truth is ALMOST impossible to figure out when it comes to ancient holy book.

#21    xFelix

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 02:04 AM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 07 May 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

I cannot find the link to any of this? Would like to see the artistic items.

Also your Revisionist Megamix was nice to listen too. Every song on it we have, on original compact disc.

On the other hand the Stendal Blast Re-Uncut video you had on earlier also sounded nice, what kind of music is that? Reminds me of witch house music. which can be very nice. (Note: witch house has nothing to do with paganism, witches, or witchcraft, it is just a genre of music.)



You might have a mild point. My sister does not consider herself Christian. It was never her choice to be part of a church and left just as soon as she could.

On the other hand Santeria is not just as simple or as plain as you portrayed. Adherents of it (Regla de Ocha, Regla Lucumi) in Cuba seemed to have been disappointed the Pope did not meet with them on one of the papal visits to Cuba. They are the most popular religion in Cuba and at times have tried to attend Catholic masses while wearing their robes...

However it came to be, Santeria is a form of syncretism.

View Postbraveone2u, on 07 May 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

Hi xFelix,

Fundamentally, you're right, but the fact remains that they use Christian symbols in abundance, and more often than not, many Santerians designate themselves as Catholics -- many hold 2 religions. This thread is about Christopagan, and I assumed that it's about religions or paths that mixed faiths to gain a higher and safe state of consciousness.

Speaking of Catholicism, one might even argue that it's a pagan religion...but...I'm not pointing the finger here; it's just common gossip, after all.


Peace.

Ok on the first quote, they were offended not because they consider themselves Christian but because the Pope didn't acknowledge them when visiting their holiest ground. It's like going to the middle east and completely ignoring thew Jewish faith... A total sign of disrespect. Furthermore, it really is that simple. The Christian influence is just a "cover" put on to preserve the faith, there really is no ties to Christianity outside of that "cover".

Second quote, in plural we are called Santeros. Yes, there are those who also hold catholic faith as well as their Lucumi faith. But that does not make the two faiths one and the same or in any way intertwined. The Pope did eventually acknowledge our faith as a faith of god, just one with a different path to him. As I said earlier, any Christian objects used in the faith are just decorations basically.. They have no value to us at all. Just something to hide behind when we were told it's Christianity or death we put crucifixes on everything(this was discontinued when we were formally given the right to free religious belief) to demonstrate "obedience". As for those who are Catholics as well as Santeros, Santeria does not shun any faith or the belief of any other faith. So in essence you could be a muslim and a santero if you wanted(actually there's quite a few of these too), in actuality and current practice it's like I said before, the only remnants of Christianity in Santeria is that of comparing our Saints with Catholic Saints for the purpose of outsiders getting a generalized idea of who/what we're talking about. Even among each other we don't refer to them in any Catholic way...

The faith is singular, it allows the belief and practice of other faiths, and accepts just about anyone.. But it is in and of itself and nothing else. I have no idea how a faith that just compares it's deities to that of Catholic deities is considered partially Catholic but it is a slap in the face cause even today we are chastised by Christianity. Lies spoken of us, hate speech, and even as far as persecution by way of law or witch hunt... Really disturbing that anyone considers us a part of those who hate us so much.

Edited by xFelix, 09 May 2013 - 02:07 AM.

My posts consist of my opinions, beliefs, and experiences, feel free to disagree in a respectful manner.

I have a right to my beleifs, just as you have a right to not agree with them.

So long as we respect each other's beliefs, we won't have a single problem.


#22    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 06:08 AM

View PostxFelix, on 09 May 2013 - 02:04 AM, said:

I have no idea how a faith that just compares it's deities to that of Catholic deities is considered partially Catholic but it is a slap in the face cause even today we are chastised by Christianity. Lies spoken of us, hate speech, and even as far as persecution by way of law or witch hunt... Really disturbing that anyone considers us a part of those who hate us so much.
Why still use Catholic symbols/images since it is the 21st century? Thank you for sharing, xFelix.

Peace.

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Distinguish between spin doctoring and truth. Keep in mind that truth is ALMOST impossible to figure out when it comes to ancient holy book.

#23    xFelix

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 07:43 AM

View Postbraveone2u, on 09 May 2013 - 06:08 AM, said:

Why still use Catholic symbols/images since it is the 21st century? Thank you for sharing, xFelix.

Peace.

Like I said, it was adopted when we were forced to be "Christian" to show "obedience", and was later just kept so that those who aren't practitioners could have a generalized idea of who that specific deity is most like. This was actually not something that was planned, it just happened on it's own. Almost like right as we were granted the freedom of religious belief everyone noticed the opportunity for future explanation.

Here let me demonstrate:

Shango and Ogun:
Ogun: He was the patron saint of iron, war, technology, and brute force. His colors are green and black. His favorite drink is fire water, and he loves the art of blacksmithing.
Shango He: is the patron saint of fire, lightning, palm trees, justice, strategy, and gold. His colors are red and white. His favorite drink is red wine, and he loves horses and big cats such as leopards. He was not born, but created in the heavens and was sent from heaven in a ball of fire. Upon arriving, he learned that he had a brother that was born named Ogun.

NOTE: These two would eternally be each other's nemesis. The Ying and Yang.

One day Shango heard rumors of his wife Oshun and his brother Ogun being unfaithful to him and he went and confronted his brother. Upon confronting him words were exchanged and both became infuriated with each other each believing they were right. So they both declared that if the other did not apologize it would surely mean war. Both of these deities are as easy to convince as a wall, so naturally they declared war on each other. Shango knew that his brother being the deity of war, blacksmithing and brute force meant he had no chance at a straight charge, so he started thinking strategy. Oya heard of the two declaring war against each other and she became fearful for Shango's sake because she secretly loved him. She went to Shango and offered to help him, in which Shango came up with a genius plan on how to defeat his stronger brother.. Ogun's only weakness was women, so Shango would take Oya's clothes and get close enough to smite his brother with a single and swift strike of his sword. The plan worked and Shango successfully defeated his brother. Thus proving that intelligence defeats brute force.

Shango is mostly related to St. Barbara (Yes the woman, even though he is a man)
If you notice St.Barbara wears red and white, rides a white horse, carries abroad a golden cup and long sword. In the cup is always depicted red wine.
At times Catholics depict St.Barbara in a fury, and when they do.. It always involves lightning bolts in the skies.

Ogun is mostly related to St. Peter (Simon Peter)
Much like St.Peter, his word is revered and sought after. He was a natural born leader and in most cases is depicted hold iron keys. Ogun uses the iron to either smite down the wicked, or guide those who need his guidance.

Now, I showed you what Catholic saints these two Lucumi saints most resemble and why. But clearly these two separate sets of people are not the same people, just similar. In knowing what Catholic Saints they are most like, you can begin to understand and deduct what these entities are like in terms of temperment and importance and such.. Do we believe these to be the same? No, in fact even with a picture of St. Peter in front of him we still call him Ogun and see him as a completely unrelated entity, and the same applies for Shango even with a picture of St.Barbara in front of him he is still called Shango and see him as a completely unrelated entity also.

Edited by xFelix, 09 May 2013 - 07:46 AM.

My posts consist of my opinions, beliefs, and experiences, feel free to disagree in a respectful manner.

I have a right to my beleifs, just as you have a right to not agree with them.

So long as we respect each other's beliefs, we won't have a single problem.


#24    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 12:16 PM

View PostxFelix, on 09 May 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

Like I said, it was adopted when we were forced to be "Christian" to show "obedience", and was later just kept so that those who aren't practitioners could have a generalized idea of who that specific deity is most like. This was actually not something that was planned, it just happened on it's own. Almost like right as we were granted the freedom of religious belief everyone noticed the opportunity for future explanation.
Hi xFelix,

I really know what you're saying, but that's the past. Why imitate the oppressors since this is the 21st century? People know what Buddha, Shiva, Krishna, etc., look like -- catch my drift? Not all Christians know what Catholic saints look like, actually. Therefore, the following statement is no longer valid: "...was later just kept so that those who aren't practitioners could have a generalized idea of who that specific deity is most like."

Also from what you're saying, the followers of your religion don't even accept the Catholic beliefs or prayers for those specific saints. So, why not completely break away from the past, including the changing of the medieval/archaic outfits to dress your deities, unless those medieval/archaic clothes (I'm not talking about the accessories) have meanings?

You may want to email or start a campaign to change the way your religion is being defined. If I were you, I would start with Wiki, Dictionary.com, etc.

According to Wikipedia: "...influenced by Roman Catholic Christianity."

According to Dictionary.com: "...with veneration of Roman Catholic saints..."  Also: "...a Caribbean religion composed of elements from both traditional African religion and Roman Catholicism."


Peace.

Edited by braveone2u, 09 May 2013 - 12:23 PM.

https://www.youtube....ix3pVUX86yBWWzS  (playlist)

Distinguish between spin doctoring and truth. Keep in mind that truth is ALMOST impossible to figure out when it comes to ancient holy book.

#25    Jessica Christ

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 08:07 AM

Quote

Are mass-going Catholics the only true Catholics? Was the article justified in using religion observance statistics to advance an argument about faith? How can journalists report on a fluid religious scene for readers coming from a fixed religious landscape?

http://www.patheos.c...icism-and-cuba/

The ones who are beyond claiming "paganism is of the devil" or "Christians burnt witches" but see value in both Christianity and Paganism and practice a blended-faith are Christopagans.

We don't want the negativity or conflict that comes with pure Chrisitans and pure Pagans who want to compete with each other or remain hostile.

Quote

Second quote, in plural we are called Santeros. Yes, there are those who also hold catholic faith as well as their Lucumi faith. But that does not make the two faiths one and the same or in any way intertwined.

Santeros are the initiated.

Regular people who go to them for help, who believe in Santeria, are not necessarily santeros themselves.

The ones who go to both santeros and to the Catholic mass, or who believe in the power of both are Christopagans.

Some can claim the Church does not accept that, or the Santeria can only be this, that is the fixed view as shown in the quote in bold above, the ones who want to keep their religion pure and cast everyone out, but the people in the middle are the Christopagans, who practice using and adopt a fluid view of religon and spirituality.


That is the heart of this thread, those who are OK with mixing, blending, and syncretism.

If you know about those who do this or do this yourself then please share. The ones "who hold catholic faith as well as their Lucumi faith" would be a good example. They exist.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!, 10 May 2013 - 08:31 AM.


#26    xFelix

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 08:29 AM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 10 May 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

http://www.patheos.c...icism-and-cuba/



Santeros are the initiated.

Regular people who go to them for help, who believe in Santera, are not necessarily santeros themselves.

The ones who go to both santeros and to the Catholic mass, or who believe in the power of both are Christopagans.

Some can claim the Church does not accept that, or the Santeros do not accept this, that is the fixed view as shown in the quote in bold above, the ones who want to keep their religion pure and cast eveyone out, but the people in the middle are the Christopagans, who adopt a fluid view of religon and spirituality.

That is the heart of this thread, those who are OK with mixing, blending, and syncretism.

If you know about those who do this or do this yourself then please share, general information on Christianity or paganism on their own, or how the two cannot ever mix, is better suited to another thread. But of course anyone can post as they wish, it just seems like a way to disrupt and derail.

Ok I get it, then by those means yes Santeros are Christopagans. We do not mind if people mix with Christianity, so naturally many do mix. I was just saying that the faith itself isn't built with any Christian principles to it, like we don't have mass or a bible or anything like that..

Thing is it's weird, cause people also mix with all sorts of stuff... For example I know Santeros who mix with wicca, islam, jewdism, catholicism, palo, kardecianism and even voudou.
I think the only faith/belief that santeria does not mix with is demon worship.

The reason we mix so well with so many different faiths is that Santeria is a neutral faith in the sense that it is based on the person not the masses. The bible hands down commandments for all, and states that everyone must spread the word and what not... Well Santeria hands down specific guidance on a person by person basis and has no opinion on other beliefs good or bad, except when it comes to demons.

When it comes to demons, we have one of two stances according to the practitioners:
1) We just flat out don't believe in therm, and don't care for the belief in them at all.
2) We do believe in them, but find them to be vile and unnecessary creatures.

As with either opinion, we will cast them out on sight. Those who do not believe in demons tend to believe that the beings called by that title are just ghosts and they cast out those ghosts accordingly. Those who do believe in the creatures actually do the same in the sense of casting them out, but they acknowledge that this is much more then a ghost...

But for the record:

Quote

The ones who go to both santeros and to the Catholic mass, or who believe in the power of both are Christopagans.

People who go to Santeros for help and are not themselves initiated in some way are not even considered a part of the faith at all.
There is even a term for them, it's called Aleyo. The thing is, partial initiation is possible. For example once you receive your eleke(necklaces) you are widely accepted as part of the faith, but you are not a full member.

Edited by xFelix, 10 May 2013 - 08:38 AM.

My posts consist of my opinions, beliefs, and experiences, feel free to disagree in a respectful manner.

I have a right to my beleifs, just as you have a right to not agree with them.

So long as we respect each other's beliefs, we won't have a single problem.


#27    Jessica Christ

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 08:42 AM

I like the concept of neutral faith which is open to all no matter where they come from and what they still hold. The world would be so much better only if everyone else did too...

I looked up Kardecianism and have read about Espiritismo before, interesting. I have seen small adds in the smaller local publications announcing Espiritismo.

In fact I have driven by a house down the block (well it is a block that criss crosses town so around three neighborhoods away, not too far away from the biggest botanica in town) with a sign out front for curandera services but there is also Espiritismo written on that sign and palmistry too...

Quote

Espiritismo has never had a single leader nor center of practice, and as such its practice varies greatly between individuals and groups. In all cases, Espiritismo has absorbed various practices from other religious and spiritual practices endemic to Latin America and the Caribbean, such as Roman Catholicism, Curanderismo, Afro-Brazilian Macumba, Santería, and Vodou.

An example of this syncretism is a magical spell that involves asking Saint Martha to exert one's will over that of another person by burning a specially prepared lamp, saying certain prayers, and wearing an amulet tied with a red ribbon around one's waist.

In other cases, the goals and methods of the Espiritista are less obviously in the realm of magic and might be considered a form of folk medicine or alternative medicine. Whatever the desired effect, the equipment and materials used for Espiritismo may often be purchased at a botánica within the practitioners' community.

Espiritismo

Edited by Leave Britney alone!, 10 May 2013 - 08:43 AM.


#28    xFelix

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 11:02 AM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 10 May 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

I like the concept of neutral faith which is open to all no matter where they come from and what they still hold. The world would be so much better only if everyone else did too...

I looked up Kardecianism and have read about Espiritismo before, interesting. I have seen small adds in the smaller local publications announcing Espiritismo.

In fact I have driven by a house down the block (well it is a block that criss crosses town so around three neighborhoods away, not too far away from the biggest botanica in town) with a sign out front for curandera services but there is also Espiritismo written on that sign and palmistry too...



Espiritismo

Yea, just as the link says.. Spiritism greatly varies in tradition. the form used by Santeros and Paleros is one that is very tame and is 100% Christopagan. Some people engage in this tradition and become insane and do all sorts of crazy things which to us is... unforgivable. Spiritism to us directly opens a door to the other side, and we do not treat that practice lightly at all... In order to ensure our safety and the safety of those around us we pray to god that he may not allow negative beings entry through that doorway.

In our Spiritism altars we keep a cross and a book of prayer, these are NOT optional. Keep in mind, it is not a bible, but a book of prayers..

Other forms of Spiritism are really wild that go as far as human blood letting... Which we find to be... One of the most powerful things on earth and not to be taken lightly.. They do it on a regular basis like it's nothing and this is why the Santeria version of Spiritism is not compatible with most other versions of the same.

Edited by xFelix, 10 May 2013 - 11:03 AM.

My posts consist of my opinions, beliefs, and experiences, feel free to disagree in a respectful manner.

I have a right to my beleifs, just as you have a right to not agree with them.

So long as we respect each other's beliefs, we won't have a single problem.


#29    Jessica Christ

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 11:17 AM

That makes sense, once you open up yourself to spirits (or as I like to view it: once you open up your mind to other parts of your consciosness) there is no telling what will come through.

If you are already unstable then you are taking a great risk by dabbling with spirits, good or bad, whatever you think of them, does not really matter, there is a huge risk.

Of course when it comes to the question of if spiritual stuff (supernatural) is all out there and our mind is just picking it up, or if nothing is out there and it is just in our mind, I like going with Patrick Dunn's view that the supernatural is somewhere in the middle, not all out there, not all in our mind, but in the middle.


#30    xFelix

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 11:37 AM

Just noticed what you wrote about the neutral faith concept. Yeah I truly love that about Santeria and Palo Mayombe, we accept all even homosexuals.

We do however have little tolerance for what we call "mariconeria" or "faggotism".. I'll explain before anyone kills me for the comment lol

Ok so we all have pro's and con's, and we are who we are.. Take it or leave it. So we accept homosexuality because in our eyes... that is just like any other con.. just the same as drug addiction, or gambling.. now what do I mean by "faggotism"? Being a gay man doesn't mean you have to dress like a woman and behave like one, that is deceitful and not tolerated. If you're a man and you're gay, that's fine.. but don't deceive others. Same applies for lesbians, you can like other women all you want.. But don't come at us trying to look like a man, with your mullet and jeans.. scratching your imaginary nuts and expect it to be tolerated...

When you stand in front of the Saints, they know who you are and what you are, and they love for you for YOU. That being said, they expect women to be women and men to be men regardless of sexual preference.

There has been many cases where homosexuals have not listened to their elders and have decided to stand in front of a saint and have been told that they need to go and take off their disguises and never put them back on because their disrespect will not be tolerated.

What is expected of a person? Be yourself; gay men are still men, gay women are still women. Being overly gay is unnecessary and deceitful.

My posts consist of my opinions, beliefs, and experiences, feel free to disagree in a respectful manner.

I have a right to my beleifs, just as you have a right to not agree with them.

So long as we respect each other's beliefs, we won't have a single problem.





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