54 replies to this topic

[keithisco]

ExpandMyMind, on 22 January 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

10s of thousands of lives? 5000 grams of cocaine would? What on earth are you talking about?

Depends what you cut it with!! Idiot... You do not know the provenace of the original supply, you do not know what it it has been cut with, you are truly stupid, perhaps you think Stoned - Out kids are funny, perhps you are disappointed that you didn't get any of this stuff!!!

[ExpandMyMind]

keithisco, on 22 January 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:

Depends what you cut it with!! Idiot... You do not know the provenace of the original supply, you do not know what it it has been cut with, you are truly stupid, perhaps you think Stoned - Out kids are funny, perhps you are disappointed that you didn't get any of this stuff!!!

Personal attacks Keith? Really?

Even if it is 100% pure there is no way in hell it would have 'caused' tens of thousands of ruined lives, even if cut to 20% purity - in fact, the lower the purity and therefore the more people who would receive some of it, the less chance it would truly affect lives in any noticeable way. We're not talking about PCP or crystal meth here. At most it might have contributed, and only very slightly, to any problems that drug users already have.

What it is cut with? What difference does that make? Are you of those who believe the myth that drugs are cut with very dangerous chemicals? That dealers wish to see their clientele dead? This can happen, but cases are so far in the minority they're barely worth mentioning unless your plan is to try to scare people into not taking them. My favourite is ecstacy mixed with rat poison. Can't beat the classics.

And kids? Who says kids are the highest demographic of users? Even in most Third World countries kids are in the minority of users. This is yet another scare tactic used to demonise drugs. This is not to say that there is a problem with this, but you cannot unequivocally state that this is where the drugs would end up.

Ruined tens of thousands of lives. You must be kidding. I'm not claiming that the drugs entering the country would have been a good thing, but when you grossly exaggerate the effect they would have had, like you have, all it does is weaken your case.

Besides, them not entering would have had literally no effect on people who take the drugs or want to take them - they are always available by other means.

Edited by ExpandMyMind, 22 January 2013 - 05:28 PM.

[Sky Scanner]

keithisco, on 22 January 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:

Depends what you cut it with!! Idiot... You do not know the provenace of the original supply, you do not know what it it has been cut with, you are truly stupid, perhaps you think Stoned - Out kids are funny, perhps you are disappointed that you didn't get any of this stuff!!!

However you cut it, most coke is between 40-60%, so you'd only turn 5000 to 10,000 grams anyway - now whilst that sounds alot, if you go back to the days of illegal raves for example, that would cater for the needs of about half the party goers, for a few hours (given as an example)....it's small fry in terms of average cocaine use in the uk at a weekend. I'm not condoning it (far from it), but it's not in the league of the real drugs that destroy lives, like heroin and crystal meth as expandmymind alluded too.

To make my point clear - i'm not condoning drug use (at all), my point is in relation to the amount and about this women being sentenced to death for it - it's way out of proportion.

Edited by Sky Scanner, 22 January 2013 - 06:03 PM.

[ExpandMyMind]

Sky Scanner, on 22 January 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

However you cut it, most coke is between 40-60%, so you'd only turn 5000 to 10,000 grams anyway - now whilst that sounds alot, if you go back to the days of illegal raves for example, that would cater for the needs of about half the party goers, for a few hours (given as an example)....it's small fry in terms of average cocaine use in the uk at a weekend. I'm not condoning it (far from it), but it's not in the league of the real drugs that destroy lives, like heroin and crystal meth as expandyourmind alluded too.

To make my point clear - i'm not condoning drug use (at all), my point is in relation to the amount and about this women being sentenced to death for it - it's way out of proportion.

I agree with all of this. Someone could take a quarter of an ounce of the purity you mention in one night and not become addicted. They could do it recreationally every other weekend and never become addicted. How anyone could try to claim that 5000g would therefore ruin tens of thousands or even thousands of lives is beyond me. I'd be surprised if it 'ruined' 10 lives.

Edited by ExpandMyMind, 22 January 2013 - 06:01 PM.

[Sky Scanner]

ExpandMyMind, on 22 January 2013 - 05:59 PM, said:

I agree with all of this. Someone could take a quarter of an ounce of the purity you mention in one night and not become addicted. They could do it recreationally every other weekend and never become addicted. How anyone could try to claim that 5000g would therefore ruin tens of thousands or even thousands of lives is beyond me. I'd be surprised if it 'ruined' 10 lives.

Well the addiction aspect is a whole new topic - but there are some interesting articles on the net regarding how it was first classified, and how it has been tested since. I would say though that it can destroy lives, but imo, mainly in terms of some 20(something) having a few beers with his mates, getting the chuck norris syndrome, and letting his mouth get him in trouble....(that's no more of a problem every friday night then beer on it's own can be though)

Apologees for spelling your name wrong above - corrected it now

[little_dreamer]

I don't think the punishment quite deserves the crime, but she doesn't seem entirely innocent at this point.

I'm not a mother,but I don't think I could be anyone's drug runner. Too much risk in my mind.  She gambled with her fate and lost. Of course foreign prisons are terrible to be in, much worse than her native country.   My advise is to not even THINK about drugs when you are in a foreign country.

[Beckys_Mom]

ExpandMyMind, on 22 January 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21137649

Barbaric. I mean if a country has tough drugs laws, that's their business, but the death penalty? By firing squad? Though with it being Indonesia, this is hardly surprising considering their numerous acts of genocide and ethnic cleansing.

Should have given her 15 years - life. I mean it was only 5kg - they go through more than that on a Friday night in Glasgow.

I hope the Foreign Office fight for her, idiot that she is.

I don't know about her being an idiot ...I read that she was doing it because they threatened her family, and she is known to have mental problems ... I hope they fight for her rights and not allow her to face the death penalty

I think it was this article that spoke of her being vulnerable and has a history of mental health issues she has had, along with the threat to her family..

EDIT to add in article as to what I had read it...

In her witness statement earlier in the trial, Sandiford expressed regret for her actions. "I would like to begin by apologising to the Republic of Indonesia and the Indonesian people for my involvement. I would never have become involved in something like this but the lives of my children were in danger and I felt I had to protect them," she said.
During the trial, her lawyer read out a statement from her son that said: "I love my mother very much and have a very close relationship with her. I know that she would do anything to protect me. I cannot imagine what I would do if she was sentenced to death in relation to these charges."
Reprieve, a legal action charity, said Sandiford was a vulnerable target for drugs traffickers, pointing to an expert report from Dr Jennifer Fleetwood that was put before the court. Fleetwood concluded that Sandiford's vulnerability would have made her an ideal target for drugs traffickers, noting that: "There is … evidence to suggest that a trafficker would seek someone who was vulnerable. Having reviewed extracts from Lindsay's medical records I know that Lindsay has a history of mental health issues … This may have unfortunately made her an attractive target for threats, manipulation and coercion."   http://www.guardian....ton-death-drugs

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 22 January 2013 - 11:32 PM.

[keithisco]

ExpandMyMind, on 22 January 2013 - 05:27 PM, said:

Personal attacks Keith? Really?

Even if it is 100% pure there is no way in hell it would have 'caused' tens of thousands of ruined lives, even if cut to 20% purity - in fact, the lower the purity and therefore the more people who would receive some of it, the less chance it would truly affect lives in any noticeable way. We're not talking about PCP or crystal meth here. At most it might have contributed, and only very slightly, to any problems that drug users already have.

What it is cut with? What difference does that make? Are you of those who believe the myth that drugs are cut with very dangerous chemicals? That dealers wish to see their clientele dead? This can happen, but cases are so far in the minority they're barely worth mentioning unless your plan is to try to scare people into not taking them. My favourite is ecstacy mixed with rat poison. Can't beat the classics.

And kids? Who says kids are the highest demographic of users? Even in most Third World countries kids are in the minority of users. This is yet another scare tactic used to demonise drugs. This is not to say that there is a problem with this, but you cannot unequivocally state that this is where the drugs would end up.

Ruined tens of thousands of lives. You must be kidding. I'm not claiming that the drugs entering the country would have been a good thing, but when you grossly exaggerate the effect they would have had, like you have, all it does is weaken your case.

Besides, them not entering would have had literally no effect on people who take the drugs or want to take them - they are always available by other means.

Yes... sorry about that ExpandMyMind, I do apologise

I just get very wound up when illicit Drug taking is ever referred to as "Recreational". it is far from it. As far as I can tell it is largely as a result of Peer pressure that people get hooked on this destructive path to nowhere in the first place.

Illicit drugs have no Quality Control, can, and have been, "Cut" with other substances inimical to life, and pose a very serious threat to Society at large. Attempts to stem the supply have largely failed because Govt's largely do not have the will to stop it. You also have the thought that "Spaced Out" populations are easier to manipulate from the top, and diverts attention from real Politics

Capital Punishment for Dealers, Suppliers, and their Mules might make many of them consider this activity to be not worthwhile, so I applaud Indonesia's tough stance on this.

Again, apologies for my earlier rudeness ExpandMyMind

[acidhead]

Unless the individual personally escorted the GOV deemed illegally containing banned substance[s] its impossible, without clear evidence, to prosecute.

Edited by acidhead, 23 January 2013 - 06:50 AM.

[Antilles]

I think some of you Brits need to travel a bit more.

Indonesia has been executing drug smugglers for decades now. I'm thinking back to Barlow and Chambers, Australians executed around 88 I think.

It is clearly spelled out in very big letters in English and other languages at airports.

If you bring drugs into this country, you can be executed for this crime.

U'm, granny brought drugs into the country. Obviously she can read, she had a passport and got on the right plane. Whatever her excuses, it all comes down to the same reason: money. The Indonesians couldn't give a stuff who she was trying to get money for. That's their law and it's their country.

[skookum]

The use to run adverts at cinema's telling people if you get caught smuggling drugs abroad you will be subjected to that countries laws.  They also explain the British embassies could find you a solicitor, deliver mail, get translators and arrange visitation, but they can't get you out.

Maybe they should re-run these on airport TV's.

[G Donnelly]

Tbh the death penalty is just plain wrong regardless of what crime has been committed.
The fact that they are enforcing it in Indonesia just goes to show how barbaric and inhumane they are.
It dosn't matter what the amount and quality of the drug are but any self-aware drug smugglers should serve hard time.
I'll even go as far to say a life sentence with no possibility of parole.
If this little incident happened in a more civilised country like the UK and the USA some campaigning lawyer should get her off.
The little fact that their mental health issues got exploited would sway any jury into making the right decision.
But alas she to had to face the music in front of a kangaroo court without any hope of clemency.
That's so unfair when your an unwilling patsy but something still bugs me...
If this was a genuine drug smuggling operation what would be the point if they knew the drugs were going to get seized.
It could be more than mental health issues being exploited and actually a full- blown vendetta.
But she could putting on a show and making us look like monkies.

Edited by Medium Brown, 23 January 2013 - 08:57 PM.

[keithisco]

Medium Brown, on 23 January 2013 - 08:55 PM, said:

Tbh the death penalty is just plain wrong regardless of what crime has been committed.
The fact that they are enforcing it in Indonesia just goes to show how barbaric and inhumane they are.
It dosn't matter what the amount and quality of the drug are but any self-aware drug smugglers should serve hard time.
I'll even go as far to say a life sentence with no possibility of parole.
If this little incident happened in a more civilised country like the UK and the USA some campaigning lawyer should get her off.
The little fact that their mental health issues got exploited would sway any jury into making the right decision.
But alas she to had to face the music in front of a kangaroo court without any hope of clemency.
That's so unfair when your an unwilling patsy but something still bugs me...
If this was a genuine drug smuggling operation what would be the point if they knew the drugs were going to get seized.
It could be more than mental health issues being exploited and actually a full- blown vendetta.
But she could putting on a show and making us look like monkies.

Nothing "LITTLE" about this. Illicit drugs RUIN lives. Nothing 3rd world about Indonesia. No Kangaroo Court here either.
Why do you think that living where you do makes you so superior when it comes to Judicature. Look at your own System before judging Indonesia, and tell me how "Wonderfully" perfect your own system is.

Of course this was a "Genuine drug smuggling operation" and she could always have informed the authorities who have very discrete methods of helping those who are "forced" into these situations.

[rashore]

Wow, 10 lbs is a lot! It's a lot of drug, and that would be pretty bulky to try smuggling. I dunno how much it is after it's cut, but I bet a lot more than 10 pounds.

And I think death is a bit much. Especially since it's way over what the prosecution was asking for, 15 years.

[Antilles]

Medium Brown, on 23 January 2013 - 08:55 PM, said:

Tbh the death penalty is just plain wrong regardless of what crime has been committed.
The fact that they are enforcing it in Indonesia just goes to show how barbaric and inhumane they are.
It dosn't matter what the amount and quality of the drug are but any self-aware drug smugglers should serve hard time.
I'll even go as far to say a life sentence with no possibility of parole.
If this little incident happened in a more civilised country like the UK and the USA some campaigning lawyer should get her off.
The little fact that their mental health issues got exploited would sway any jury into making the right decision.
But alas she to had to face the music in front of a kangaroo court without any hope of clemency.
That's so unfair when your an unwilling patsy but something still bugs me...
If this was a genuine drug smuggling operation what would be the point if they knew the drugs were going to get seized.
It could be more than mental health issues being exploited and actually a full- blown vendetta.
But she could putting on a show and making us look like monkies.

Man oh man. I'm not going to comment any more.