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Christians and oppression


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#16    tapirmusic

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:19 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 11 April 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:


There are a small number of oppressed Christians mostly in Muslim countries, but as a whole nowadays Christians mostly do the oppressing. From gay rights to genocide of the native Americans.

native americans?  what on earth are you talking about?  There was never a holy war declared on native american by christians.

gay rights?  Nowhere on earth are gays being murdered by christians just for being gay.
Now in muslim countries that is a different story.


#17    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:54 PM

View Posttapirmusic, on 11 April 2013 - 07:19 PM, said:

native americans?  what on earth are you talking about?  There was never a holy war declared on native american by christians.

gay rights?  Nowhere on earth are gays being murdered by christians just for being gay.
Now in muslim countries that is a different story.
http://www.opensocie...exuality-uganda


#18    tapirmusic

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:13 PM

View PostAtentutankh-pasheri, on 11 April 2013 - 07:54 PM, said:


punishable by incarceration.
not death.
http://dot429.com/ar...ys-to-kill-gays


#19    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:26 PM

View Posttapirmusic, on 11 April 2013 - 10:13 PM, said:

punishable by incarceration.
not death.
http://dot429.com/ar...ys-to-kill-gays
you people twist in the wind like a corpse hanging from a gibbet


#20    tapirmusic

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:47 PM

View PostAtentutankh-pasheri, on 11 April 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

you people

"you people?"

That right there is the definition of prejudice, buddy boy.
You are obviously a anti-christian zealot and you will never be able to see more than one side of a coin.  I'm finished debating with you.  Your intolerance of anything that disagrees with you is like a beetle made of shadows devouring your maggot-ridden mind!


ps.  see what I did there with that last sentence?   That's how stupid it looks here:

View PostAtentutankh-pasheri, on 11 April 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

No doubt an uncomfortable truth that will be met with a basilisk stare and total denial from certain posters.....
and here:

View PostAtentutankh-pasheri, on 11 April 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

you people twist in the wind like a corpse hanging from a gibbet



#21    SpiritWriter

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 11:31 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 11 April 2013 - 01:02 AM, said:

It has been a long time since i met an oppressed person, although  know from reading that they still exist. Oppression of others is a destructive trait no matter who is being oppresed. It is destructive to te oppressed and to the oppresor because it warps a productive and progresive society. My somewhat controversial view is that no one can be oppressed unless they are somewhat complicit in allowing themselves to be oppressed.  A person can resist oppression, even if that creates dangerous consequences. Failure to resist is what enables the oppression to exist. A society should reduce oppression where ever possible, but it also requires every individual to resist personal oppression at every level.

People have to be in the right mind state and have enough psychological strength to overcome not only the oppressors but also their oppressive state (of mind) grouped with others who are also oppressed and have not developed their minds to be fighters makes one huge struggle. Sometimes only progress can be made and that progress can be rerouted easily, not to mention as the oppressed grow they have the (beat in) tendancy, sometimes to become oppressors themselves. Your philosophy is a good one but rarely is their enough mental strength, cooperative or independant to pull it off.

Edit: over a period of time that we, in our limited life spans have privy to witness.. the process always happens but in like 500 year increments etc....

There is still MUCH oppression in the land....

Edited by SpiritWriter, 12 April 2013 - 12:04 AM.

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#22    SpiritWriter

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 11:34 PM

Thats why there needs to be a great call for new, non political and non violent leaders.

Non-political as in goverment.

Edited by SpiritWriter, 11 April 2013 - 11:35 PM.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#23    SpiritWriter

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 11:56 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 11 April 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:


No one deserve oppression. But a Christian should pay very close attention to who is opressed and who is not these days, and what groups have actually done the oppression in the last 500 years.

I do not agree with the seperatiion of the religion from the actions of the people. Not all actions represent the people of the religion as a whole, but it definantly taints it.

There are a small number of oppressed Christians mostly in Muslim countries, but as a whole nowadays Christians mostly do the oppressing. From gay rights to genocide of the native Americans. Does that make you personalky responsible... No. But when you join a group and take on the label don't be surprised if you then are associated with these wrongs.

On a side note.... If one is going to part of a group, there should be some sort of internal accountability that that person has for the actions of a group. It's like buying stocks. I refuse to own stock in socially irresponsible companies. If I say owned stock in wal mart, that makes me part owner of wal Mart and complicit in there actions. If I did own it it would be to change it. I'm not rich enough to do that.

If I were Christian I would be active against the Christians that give christianity a bad name. Paranoid Android does a great job. To me people like him are ideal Christians.

A true Christian principle is not to oppress but to free (the way I see it)
Why should we appologize for other peoples malpractice or held accountable for it?
Perhaps the version (the mask) that promotes this is not our religion at all but, we are still Christian.
Ive said this for a long time, and not directed at you in particular seeker, I think you know this.. but peoples understanding needs to open up on all sides. And all need to be cognizant of how to treat other people. Titles are nothing, the principles are what matter, knowing what is important to us and what we have discerned to make a part of our practice (religion) will alert us how to respond in any environment. Christians need to learn they dont have to agree with everything the pastors or the old ways say... we ALL should be on the road to seeing each other as equal, special, worthy. (Even those who need work, because... we all need work)

Edited by SpiritWriter, 11 April 2013 - 11:59 PM.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#24    Ever Learning

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 12:16 AM

View PostAtentutankh-pasheri, on 11 April 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

But this is common knowledge! Do you really deny any opression of non Christians in Europe over many centuries? By asking to provide texts to prove reality you are doing no different to asking for texts to prove that the Thirty Years War happened. If I had made a claim about a specific and obscure incident, then ask for proof, I would not argue with that, but you are guilty of the old technique of wilfull ignorance and sidestepping. Pagans were slaughtered and converted against their will, witches were burnt, people could not be seen not to be Christian. These are facts. If you chose to deny reality then that is your affair.
im sorry but what your saying is craziness, and i wont indulge it. i never said christians havent done  things, pagans have also. red hen just picked apart your argument, theirs no need for me to do that. the thirty years happened, when i said to quote  didnt mean irrelevant things.

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#25    Ever Learning

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 12:22 AM

View PostAtentutankh-pasheri, on 11 April 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

you people twist in the wind like a corpse hanging from a gibbet
the original question was do i derserve oppresion, you have hijacked the topic and turned it the opposite way to its intention.

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#26    Zaphod222

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 12:23 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 11 April 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:

There are a small number of oppressed Christians mostly in Muslim countries, but as a whole nowadays Christians mostly do the oppressing.

Reality check: Christians are oppressed in ALL muslim countries. From being banned outright (in Shariah countries like Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia) to living under second-class dhimmi conditions (in "moderate" muslim countries such as Turkey and Malaysia).
No equivalent exists in the Christian world. Talk about an upside-down world-view!

View PostSeeker79, on 11 April 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:

From gay rights

Gay rights? Christians oppose same-sex marriage (something that I do too as an atheist). Under Islam, homosexuality is punishable by DEATH. Ahmedinejad on his US visit was bragging that Iran is free of homosexuals. The only pictures of homosexuals in the islamic republic show those who are hanging out.... by their necks, under construction cranes.

And you lambast the.... Christians???

View PostSeeker79, on 11 April 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:

to genocide

Which genocide? The genocide of the Christian Armenians, committed by the muslim Turkish government?  That is whitewashed by the Turkish government, and never criticized anywhere in the muslim world.

Or the Jewish genocide? That is praised by islamist preachers all over the muslim world as a great success, and Yussuf Al Qaradafi (the spiritual leader of the Muslim Brotherhood) calls for a repeat.

Or the genocide of the Indian hindus during the muslim invasion of India? Or the genocide of the Afghanistan Buddhists during the muslim conquest of Afghanistan? Any other you had in mind?

You are sure you are not barking up the wrong tree again?

Edited by Zaphod222, 12 April 2013 - 12:28 AM.

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." (Salman Rushdie)

#27    Ever Learning

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 12:24 AM

View Posttapirmusic, on 11 April 2013 - 07:19 PM, said:

native americans?  what on earth are you talking about?  There was never a holy war declared on native american by christians.

gay rights?  Nowhere on earth are gays being murdered by christians just for being gay.
Now in muslim countries that is a different story.
the native americans liked the christians and even lived with mormons

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#28    MiskatonicGrad

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 01:25 AM

What about the history of "christian" on christian oppression? Look at the history of the church of england and the roman church against the Baptist or anabaptist movement. Who knows how many people were killed just because they didn't think infant baptism was biblical. these people were beaten, imprisoned, hanged, and even burned at the stake for heresay. How's that for christian love and understanding?

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#29    Zaphod222

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 02:06 AM

View PostMiskatonicGrad, on 12 April 2013 - 01:25 AM, said:

What about the history of "christian" on christian oppression? Look at the history of the church of england and the roman church against the Baptist or anabaptist movement. Who knows how many people were killed just because they didn't think infant baptism was biblical. these people were beaten, imprisoned, hanged, and even burned at the stake for heresay. How's that for christian love and understanding?

There has been plenty of that. But once again, Christianity has overcome that. You don´t see Catholics massacring Protestants today. While in the muslim world.... just open your newspaper to see how the Shiites and Sunnis get along, and how both of them treat the Ahmediyyas.

Once again: Barking up the wrong tree.

Edited by Zaphod222, 12 April 2013 - 02:06 AM.

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." (Salman Rushdie)

#30    SpiritWriter

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 03:16 AM

View Posttapirmusic, on 11 April 2013 - 07:19 PM, said:



native americans?  what on earth are you talking about?  There was never a holy war declared on native american by christians.

gay rights?  Nowhere on earth are gays being murdered by christians just for being gay.
Now in muslim countries that is a different story.

please dont act like christian ideologies dont play a part in oppressing gays, or native americans for that matter especially in reguard to spirituality... oppression isnt always about murder but by seperation and demonizing people as well.. divide and conquer, this was the motive of many founding fathers which had a lot to do with racism as well and white elitism but religion/christianity has been used for a scapegoat to this, now this doesnt have to do with gays, but it is blatently clear that the common thought in christianity, whether you think so or not is that being gay is a sin and basically having an evil spirit in you, resulting in gay people being rejected from religion.. sure they could join another religion but this would be an even further obamination, wouldnt you agree?... there is a rift or should I say historically there has been a rift between any non christian and christian and christians in america besides the almighty dollar have been the ruling way of life. Im not saying its all bad, but its the bad that surfaces to the top and controlls everything to the bottom. . There is some deep rooted bigotry embedded into the religion that makes seperatism ok..... for example what does the church teach about pagans and gays? If we hate somebody, or have a whole legion of folks who have demonized a whole group this is oppression. Now a days our laws are not governed by religion but christianity is deeply embedded into the culture. Times are changing and have been changing drastically and christians need to open thier eyes to a lot of things. Its ok to be christian but dont act like everything about being a christian is ok....

Sorry if I sound abrasive right now I dont have time to edit and butter it up a little better.

Much love in Christ

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung




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