Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * - 4 votes

Non-believers, why do you post here ?


  • Please log in to reply
117 replies to this topic

#76    JesseCuster

JesseCuster

    Secret Jesus

  • Member
  • 3,479 posts
  • Joined:11 Jun 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Ireland

Posted 10 February 2013 - 12:27 AM

View Postthe L, on 10 February 2013 - 12:06 AM, said:

Why would I be offended because one have no arguments and start to attack on personal level. Im not offended. If I have time I respond to him or her. If not I ignore their insults.
When I mentioned people stomping their feet, getting offended and quitting the forum, I wasn't talking about you.  I was talking about short-term users who join, tell their stories and show their pics, and leave shortly after because people don't believe them and show their photos aren't actual ghosts or UFOs.

Quote

What you want to tell that we are imagining? That we see insults while there are no insults around?
I don't want to tell you that you are imaging anything.  Nothing in my post implied any such thing.  You are reading far too much into what I wrote.

I was merely commenting on the fact that the only people on this thread to accuse people of using personal attacks are YOU and Simbi Laveau, despite someone else's claims that it is 'skeptics' who feel they are being personally attacked.  The only other mention of personal attacks was someone who claimed that skeptics feel they are personally attacked by certain things posted by 'believers'.  No evidence was produced to support that claim, but evidence has been produced to support the claim that 'believers' (like you) think they are the targets of personal attacks.

Quote

Or that we should ignore insults and do not discuss about them? Again surpression.
I never claimed nor implied that insults should be ignored nor that they shouldn't be discussed.  Merely that you and others are actually and probably (as per the quotes above)  accusing others of delivering "personal attacks" while someone claimed that it is 'skeptics' who claim to be the victims of 'personal attacks' despite no skeptics on this thread claiming any such thing and 'believers' making explicit claims of personal attacks.

Edited by Archimedes, 10 February 2013 - 12:29 AM.

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool." - Richard P. Feynman

"If people put enough excrement in one pile they think they can safely claim that there must be something other than excrement in a pile that big." - stereologist

#77    Melo -

Melo -

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 77 posts
  • Joined:09 Aug 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Madera, California

  • ...more dangerous than any weapon is a face of evil, with a mask of good intention.

Posted 10 February 2013 - 01:47 AM

No, no, no....nonononono!....i do not believe in this post!
there is no credibility to the claim that people do what you've just stated....this read is trash, brash, and i hate it



and i'm hella just kidding.... :) good post simbi, as usual! :)

more dangerous than any weapon is a face of evil, with a mask of good intention...

#78    Professor T

Professor T

    3 of 7

  • Member
  • 2,579 posts
  • Joined:11 Jul 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:between

  • I'm not really a Professor so don't take my words as Gospel

Posted 10 February 2013 - 04:51 AM

View PostArchimedes, on 09 February 2013 - 11:58 PM, said:

I haven identified two people on this thread who have made claims of their beliefs being "attacked" - The L and Simbi Laveau

To quote them:

[/font]



So far the evidence doesn't point to 'skeptics' feeling they are being attacked personally, it points to 'believers' feeling they are being attacked personally.   That doesn't warrant well for your theory about 'skeptics' feeling they are being personally attacked.  No 'skeptic' on this thread has said anything about feeling they are personally attacked. Granted thread isn't much of a sample, but still.  It seems in my experience 'believers' are much more likely to get personally offended, stomp their feet and quit the forum over what they deem 'personal attacks' than any of the 'skeptics'.

ps I put 'skeptic' and 'believer' in quote marks as I don't feel they are very useful phrases, being overly narrow and easy to use tools for one beating the other over the head with as a term of insult.


edit: This forum always messes up my text formatting.  Hence this edit.

do you identify yourself as being a Non-believer or Sceptic?


#79    ChrLzs

ChrLzs

    Just a contributor..

  • Member
  • 4,147 posts
  • Joined:21 Nov 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Gold Coast (Qld, Australia)

  • I only floccinaucinihilipilificate
    when it IS worthless...

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:08 AM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 09 February 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

So does this mean you think people are being enlightened when a person doesn't believe what they have reported?
No, and that's not what I said.  If someone gives a valid explanation of what has been reported, and the person who reported it then 'feels like a fool', is that the fault of the person who gave the valid explanation?  It could be.. but if so, it should be reported.

Quote

That by sharing thier experience and made to feel like a fool with mental problems
As I said earlier, if someone states their case in such an insulting fashion, REPORT it.  If it is stated in a subtle or sneaky way and is unworthy of reporting, then maybe you should just move on.  We are all different, not only in whether we *are* supercilious or condescending, but also in what some people will *take* as being supercilious and condescending.  I'm sure I get thought of in that way on a couple of subjects here, but maybe, just maybe that could be because I know the subjects a whole lot better, and the offended parties simply don't like being  wrong...

Often a person's experience is extremely treasured and close to their heart and that's fine..  Except for a simple fact - they are posting it on a discussion forum that, last time I looked, prides itself on *explaining* the unexplained - if it didn't, then it would be brim-full of ridiculous and unchallenged claims .. and be pretty much worthless...

The problem comes about when their experience or claim/belief is TOO close to their heart, so that they can't stand any form of critique - even a polite question can immediately become a personal attack in their mind.  That's why there are moderators here, so if you genuinely think it's an attack on you, use the Report function.  Or if you think someone is being condescending, you could politely state why, or just move on and ignore them.  Frankly, if your experience or point of view is so precious it is beyond critique.. post it on a blog and block any dissenters or find a forum that specialises in such stuff.

Quote

Are you saying you think skeptics stick around for this, like this is thier higher calling or job or something?
Funny you should say that.. one of the reasons I hang out here is that I have seen the damage first hand that incorrect 'theories' can do, esp. to innocent family members, partners and kids - as a simple example, Nancy Lieder convinced many people (including herself) that a huge planet would wipe us out in 1999..  She euthanased her dog for that reason, and advised others to do so.  There are records of lengthy conversations with her followers saying how their children cried when they found out about what was going to happen...  Should that sort of lunacy be left unchallenged?  That sort of stuff hurts people, can even result in suicides.  And I like to fight it.

But the other reason is that I'm simply interested in many of these subjects, and have relevant experience or training in some of them.  I like to help folks understand the weird stuff that can happen, and I also like to make sure that incorrect stuff, stuff that could hurt people, isn't promoted.

Quote

Thats not to say I want you to leave

You're most kind!

Quote

but I think this thread is about understanding what the skeptics interest is.. not why we should accept the skeptics view point. I personally think skeptics should start listening a little more closely..

Well, I try to listen VERY closely, but if something's wrong or unexplainable, I'll generally say so.  And I don't think this thread is so much about understanding, but generalisations - and I don't like the ones I am seeing..  I don't pre-judge believers, I judge individual cases.  I think the same should apply to skeptics.

Quote

Edit: I think its the skeptics who are holding on to thier pride...

How do you measure that, exactly?  Skeptics, but not 'believers'...?  That's the sort of generalisation that I don't think is warranted.


And may I simply repeat the very simple advice - if you feel you are being personally attacked, REPORT THE POST.  It's not difficult, and I've found the moderators here are extremely helpful and fair-minded.


{Mods - can I have my $5 now?}

My garden is already magical and beyond beautiful - I do not need to invent fairies... - ChrLzs

The truth ONLY hurts when it slaps you in the face after you haven't done proper homework and made silly claims... - ChrLzs

#80    Simbi Laveau

Simbi Laveau

    Overlord A. Snuffleupagus

  • Member
  • 8,266 posts
  • Joined:26 Feb 2012
  • Location:Rim of hell

  • ~So what's all this then ?!

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:15 AM

View PostArchimedes, on 10 February 2013 - 12:27 AM, said:

When I mentioned people stomping their feet, getting offended and quitting the forum, I wasn't talking about you.  I was talking about short-term users who join, tell their stories and show their pics, and leave shortly after because people don't believe them and show their photos aren't actual ghosts or UFOs.

I don't want to tell you that you are imaging anything.  Nothing in my post implied any such thing.  You are reading far too much into what I wrote.

I was merely commenting on the fact that the only people on this thread to accuse people of using personal attacks are YOU and Simbi Laveau, despite someone else's claims that it is 'skeptics' who feel they are being personally attacked.  The only other mention of personal attacks was someone who claimed that skeptics feel they are personally attacked by certain things posted by 'believers'.  No evidence was produced to support that claim, but evidence has been produced to support the claim that 'believers' (like you) think they are the targets of personal attacks.

I never claimed nor implied that insults should be ignored nor that they shouldn't be discussed.  Merely that you and others are actually and probably (as per the quotes above)  accusing others of delivering "personal attacks" while someone claimed that it is 'skeptics' who claim to be the victims of 'personal attacks' despite no skeptics on this thread claiming any such thing and 'believers' making explicit claims of personal attacks.
Wow ,and yeah,im attacked a lot ,for personal stances,but I am by FAR ,not the only one attacked ,and I'm am rather tired of it ,so if I want to  call out what appear to be just a bunch of egotistical bullies...I will .
As tha what most of them are  .
Have you EVER ,seen me go into any sub forum here,and repeatedly pick on a certain type of individual ,where I start an antagonistic barrage againt them ?
And I do it over and over and over .
Or,do I respond on posts where I defend myself ,after being called an idiot .
Because I can post plenty of examples of the latter.
So,please post examples of me doing the former .....please do .

My point is,people who do this,do it not because they have an interest in most of this,but they get off on doing this superiority thing.
It's most always the usual suspects ,of which there are not a lot .
But they're consistant .

Miss me?

#81    Simbi Laveau

Simbi Laveau

    Overlord A. Snuffleupagus

  • Member
  • 8,266 posts
  • Joined:26 Feb 2012
  • Location:Rim of hell

  • ~So what's all this then ?!

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:19 AM

View PostRyu, on 09 February 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:

Has anyone overlooked the fact that this place is a FORUM?

People of all viewpoints come here to discuss and maybe, just maybe (heaven forbid) someone might learn something.
And heaven forbid that a believer be made to think about other views and maybe think that their view might have been misplaced..same with some of us horrible, slimy and detestable skeptics.

If all a believer wants is to be surrounded by like minded people who just nod blindly and never once post an opposing view then maybe you need to find a place that does just that.

I joined a few other forums that discuss these same topics,and none of this goes on at those forums .
So I had to wonder why .

And hey,if I'm being a pain in the ass for finally pointing out the obvious of  what some constituants do here ,sorrryyyyy ....

Miss me?

#82    ChrLzs

ChrLzs

    Just a contributor..

  • Member
  • 4,147 posts
  • Joined:21 Nov 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Gold Coast (Qld, Australia)

  • I only floccinaucinihilipilificate
    when it IS worthless...

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:28 AM

I think I'm on Simbi's ignore list, but anyway, I'd be interested to know if she reports these attacking posts?

If not why not?

If so, does she feel the moderation here is not appropriate?

My garden is already magical and beyond beautiful - I do not need to invent fairies... - ChrLzs

The truth ONLY hurts when it slaps you in the face after you haven't done proper homework and made silly claims... - ChrLzs

#83    Simbi Laveau

Simbi Laveau

    Overlord A. Snuffleupagus

  • Member
  • 8,266 posts
  • Joined:26 Feb 2012
  • Location:Rim of hell

  • ~So what's all this then ?!

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:30 AM

View PostSky Scanner, on 09 February 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:



I don't doubt there are those that just ridicule from the outset, i've bumped into a few myself, but that just falls under what I said when I said "how they'll filter out other views to hold onto their own". There are forums (as you said) that deal with a particular mindset or belief, but as this isn't one of those then you need those that counter any claim made. I'd also have to point out that I have bumped into just as many believers who refuse to act reasonably in a debate - for example, if a claim is made regarding something that affects us all, say medicine, or the environment for example, and someone with a great deal of knowledge posts on that topic countering the claim, or debunking the claim, then it's in the interest of the topic and all those reading it to see that information.

The psychology of dismissing just for the sake of it is the same as the psychology of refusing to debate with sceptical views, in so much as it's protecting a mindset to the point of stubbornness.

Another side that i've seen is that I think occasionally people post personal beliefs that they hold dear, and expect only like minded people to post on it, whereas in reality they would have been better off putting it in a blog if they wanted to avoid any resistance to their thoughts. :)


Hey,if people don't adhere to my belief system ,thats fine ,but say a few people who believe in demons,are discussing demons,or UFOs...or the megalodon .
And if people don't believe it post ,it doesnt exist ,and theres no proof.


Ok ,thats their opinion ,if the three people who do believe it want to discuss it ,why must they take it private , to discuss it without a barrage of naysayers,when it has been pointed out ,this is a forum.
Why dont the people who dont believe ,just let it go .
It's why I stop posting on some threads . I can only explain my viewpoint so many times ,before its just redundant to just keep repeating myself to someone who doesnt understand what Im trying to convey .ok,they say im wrong,ive explained it three times.
No point in reiterating again.
Right ?


Miss me?

#84    TSS

TSS

    Observer

  • Closed
  • 5,750 posts
  • Joined:30 Jun 2008

Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:05 AM

View PostSimbi Laveau, on 10 February 2013 - 05:30 AM, said:

Hey,if people don't adhere to my belief system ,thats fine ,but say a few people who believe in demons,are discussing demons,or UFOs...or the megalodon .
And if people don't believe it post ,it doesnt exist ,and theres no proof.


Ok ,thats their opinion ,if the three people who do believe it want to discuss it ,why must they take it private , to discuss it without a barrage of naysayers,when it has been pointed out ,this is a forum.
Why dont the people who dont believe ,just let it go .
It's why I stop posting on some threads . I can only explain my viewpoint so many times ,before its just redundant to just keep repeating myself to someone who doesnt understand what Im trying to convey .ok,they say im wrong,ive explained it three times.
No point in reiterating again.
Right ?

Of course, if you think you have answered a point enough times, then just move onto posts that you do like, no one has to answer posts that they don't want too....but, that won't mean your subsequent posts won't be countered, since an open forum allows any input from people who find any particular angle of what is being discussed interesting..

However, I do think a way an initial post is worded can help in some circumstances, for example if someone wants to talk about a specific part of a religion for example, and wants to discuss that aspect with people who know about it, then someone coming on and yelling "prove god exists first" could be seen as thread derailment, since the topic isn't about whether god exists, the subject assumes that from the outset, hence being a specific religious question. It's when someone comes out and makes a bold statement in their post or question "i've been abducted by aliens, and the government knows the truth" (for example)....well you're not going to get people who think the same just posting on there, you've made a claim, it will no doubt be tested by many on here...


#85    TSS

TSS

    Observer

  • Closed
  • 5,750 posts
  • Joined:30 Jun 2008

Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:09 AM

View PostChrlzs, on 10 February 2013 - 05:08 AM, said:

Funny you should say that.. one of the reasons I hang out here is that I have seen the damage first hand that incorrect 'theories' can do, esp. to innocent family members, partners and kids - as a simple example, Nancy Lieder convinced many people (including herself) that a huge planet would wipe us out in 1999..  She euthanased her dog for that reason, and advised others to do so.  There are records of lengthy conversations with her followers saying how their children cried when they found out about what was going to happen...  Should that sort of lunacy be left unchallenged?  That sort of stuff hurts people, can even result in suicides.  And I like to fight it.


^ That.


#86    keninsc

keninsc

    Poltergeist

  • Closed
  • 3,234 posts
  • Joined:08 Mar 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

  • The problem with people who have no vices is that generally you can be pretty sure they're going to have some pretty annoying virtues. Liz Taylor

Posted 10 February 2013 - 01:51 PM

View Postthe L, on 09 February 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

Yes there is no dot in that case. But there are plenty where we already have a whole picture.
Also I would like that you answer other part of my previous post. Such as do you made plans? What is alternative to conspiracy?
In fact I think you dont understand what conspiracy is. It isnt that some reptilians, aliens find in some somkey room and create evil plans.
Conspiracy , simply, meand secret agenda. Secret plan.
So I dont get it which part dont you get.
Is it that powerfull elite do plans? Or that powerfull elite didnt introduce plan to you therefore plan doesnt exist? Meaning its secret to you.

Edit: Even when I give you example of prooven conspiracy you will say :Oh that was then. So please answer me when humans stop being ploters and become love and caring for eachothers?

Personally Im very sad that I didnt find time for UM conspiracy sub forum and UM paranormal sub forum.

Well, powerful people do plan things all the time, however don't you think these people would do a better job so they wouldn't be discovered? I mean if you're smart enough to plan all the things that are supposed to be part of elaborate conspiracies, don't you think you could have covered up all the so called "tell tale" evidence that gets left behind for all us regular people to find?

......or is that a conspiracy as well?


#87    JesseCuster

JesseCuster

    Secret Jesus

  • Member
  • 3,479 posts
  • Joined:11 Jun 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Ireland

Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:01 PM

View PostProfessor T, on 10 February 2013 - 04:51 AM, said:

do you identify yourself as being a Non-believer or Sceptic?
A non-believer in what?

'Believer' and 'non-believer' don't mean anything in themselves out of context.  Is a devout Catholic who denies the existence of ET visiting Earth and believes ghosts don't exist a 'believer' or a 'non-believer'?  In the context of the ghosts and hauntings forum here he would be called a 'non-believer' or a 'skeptic' whereas on a Christian forum he would be a 'believer' (or a depraved immoral Satanist on some fundy forums).

Yes, I do call myself a skeptic, but the word as thrown around on this forum regularly means something else that what I mean by it which is why I generally avoid using it on UM, where it is commonly used to mean 'close-minded cynic'.

Edited by Archimedes, 10 February 2013 - 03:02 PM.

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool." - Richard P. Feynman

"If people put enough excrement in one pile they think they can safely claim that there must be something other than excrement in a pile that big." - stereologist

#88    JesseCuster

JesseCuster

    Secret Jesus

  • Member
  • 3,479 posts
  • Joined:11 Jun 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Ireland

Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:35 PM

View PostSimbi Laveau, on 10 February 2013 - 05:15 AM, said:

Have you EVER ,seen me go into any sub forum here,and repeatedly pick on a certain type of individual ,where I start an antagonistic barrage againt them ?
No.

Quote

And I do it over and over and over .
Or,do I respond on posts where I defend myself ,after being called an idiot .
Because I can post plenty of examples of the latter.
So,please post examples of me doing the former .....please do .
Why would I post examples of you doing that?  I never accused you of anything.  There isn't a single post by me accusing you of bullying behaviour on the forum, so why are you asking me to post examples of it?  WTF, did you even read my post?

Quote

My point is,people who do this,do it not because they have an interest in most of this,but they get off on doing this superiority thing.
It's most always the usual suspects ,of which there are not a lot .
But they're consistant .
In which case you need to make your point clearer.  Your opening post asked why 'non-believers' use these forums, when in fact it seems that you want to know why certain 'non-believers' "the usual suspects, of which there are not a lot" who you see as bullying nay-sayers use these forums.  That is an entirely different question and it does you no favours when you equivocate between the two.

In fact, I agree with you that there is some unpleasant behaviour by people on these forums. The 'Photoshop!' kneejerk reaction by people who clearly don't know anything about digital imaging gets my goat.  Which is why I do my best to try and correct these kind of misunderstandings so people mightn't jump to conclusions 'it's a flying saucer!' or 'it's been Photoshopped!' when a scaled-down noisy out-of-focus heavily JPEG'd photo of a bird flying is presented.

But try not to generalise between 'non-believers' and 'certain non-believers of which there are not a lot' whose behaviour you don't like.  You don't like it when the generalisation goes the other way, do you?

Edited by Archimedes, 10 February 2013 - 03:35 PM.

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool." - Richard P. Feynman

"If people put enough excrement in one pile they think they can safely claim that there must be something other than excrement in a pile that big." - stereologist

#89    HDesiato

HDesiato

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 301 posts
  • Joined:18 Jun 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pennsylvania

Posted 10 February 2013 - 04:25 PM

I have plenty of reasons to be on here.
Sylvia Brown's book, titled something like: "Everything You Need To Know About The Paranormal", had to have been the worst thing I ever read(about 5 years ago).
My cousin recommended it and was a big fan.
We used to hang out at the local overpriced coffee shop on Friday nights, laugh, tell stories and have these long drawn out discussions about art, creativity, dreams and our deeply held beliefs.
Often it became a kind of polite debate with the unspoken rule of respect serving as moderator.
I soon got my own PC and was able to go down the list of things in Sylvia's book to get some perspective other than her own (not one source of reference in her book).
Our meetings ended once his Mom ( my Aunt)  was diagnosed with Alzheimer's and Dementia (she passed away last October), then my Mom was diagnosed with the same thing (she is a handful).
I joined here for the dreams forum as I'm interested in how the mind works.
I find these forums a usefull outlet for expression.
I identify with the skeptic POV.




#90    Frank Merton

Frank Merton

    Blue fish

  • Member
  • 15,126 posts
  • Joined:22 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

  • fmerton.blogspot.com

Posted 10 February 2013 - 04:38 PM

I think we should try to identify beliefs and root them out, and have only opinions.  Beliefs are things we think are true subconsciously; our opinions should all be up in at a conscious level.

Personally I am very much skeptical of almost everything I see claimed here, most especially the alien and religious stuff, and of course all the political conspiracies.

To me the one thing where I tend to part from "science" is the origin and nature of mind, but I have found it impossible to discuss it on this or any other board -- the materialist (or physicalist) viewpoint seem utterly unable to comprehend that there is even a problem.  I put the word "science" in ticks in the previous sentence because the science I have read on the subject is much more open on the subject.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users