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Sumerian astronomical knowledge


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#16    Ninhursag

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:23 AM

The board game looks wonderful .. However I don't know if it represents the sky or the planets .. It's not necessary to attribute everything to astronomy and astrology ..

However, those Sumerians never cease to amaze me :nw:

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#17    kmt_sesh

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 09:51 PM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 30 October 2012 - 05:42 AM, said:

Though it is not necessarily a rossete,it is a stylised Lotus (a aerial view of a lotus) since it explains the distinctly seperated petals.
Posted Image



Cealing Motif of 'Ashtdal-kamal' (Full bloomed Eight petel lotus) in "Dhai Din Ka Jhonpada", Ajmer, Rajasthan, India


Posted Image

If you check the motif the Lotus has eight petals on the Summerian board game and since the petals are distinctly seperate and pointed and tapering it is highly unlikely that it is a Rossete.

The number of petals is not really relevant to the meaning behind the motif. The Egyptian rosette often shows seven petals, but this has no effect on meaning, either. The motifs on the board game likely mean nothing in and of themselves, but I was drawing on cultural meanings in other contexts of the rosette.

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#18    monk 56

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 04:34 AM

Hi kmt_sesh,

Geometric shapes, rosettes, five and eight pointed stars has some confusion going backwards in time, by different cultures it can mean Venus or Sirius, or both!

I hope link below works if not do a search for "venus and sirius some unexpected similarities"

http://www.utexas.ed...ers/venusir.rtf

Examples can be links below:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inanna

Please scroll down link below to "FLAG", here the eight pointed star means "SIRIUS"

http://www.azembassy...eneral_info.htm

Obviously some cultures value the five pointed star the same way as having dual symbolism to both Venus and Sirius, stars and geometric shapes such as rosettes can be connected!


#19    monk 56

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 05:02 AM

The number eight in belief has effected modern history ie numerology, events in modern history that have been effected are below:-

The Beijing 2008 Summer Olympics started on 08/08/08 at 8pm, link below:-

http://en.wikipedia....Chinese_culture

Please scroll down to "EIGHT" on above link.

Another example would be 8888 uprising, link below:-

http://en.wikipedia....i/8888_Uprising

Burmese astrology is based on the number eight, link below:-

http://www.whats-you...imal-signs.html


#20    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 05:51 AM

View Postkmt_sesh, on 30 October 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

The number of petals is not really relevant to the meaning behind the motif. The Egyptian rosette often shows seven petals, but this has no effect on meaning, either. The motifs on the board game likely mean nothing in and of themselves, but I was drawing on cultural meanings in other contexts of the rosette.
Posted Image
The above represents the typical rosette variations and most of them don't have a tapering pointed petals,(rosette=rose pattern).

The reason i pointed it out is because it serves a purpose to establish cultural similarities and for us to better understand the meaning of the motif.The lotus motif  was common in near eastern civilizations and Indian subcontinent

The number of petals as pointed out by Monk do serve a numerological and symbolic purpose.


#21    monk 56

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 03:57 PM

Hi Harsh86Patel,

I see you come from India, i love Gandhi however to be a politician sometimes you have strange associations, like the Theosophical society, the Golden Dawn and early members of the UK Labour party, i have to giggle when i see video link below:-



Not everything that secret societies do are evil, but they love aligning to Sirius and Alnilam, Belt of Orion, please read link below, three pages:-

http://www.mauricefe...&t=1940&start=0

However i'm not that keen on the influence now of New Welcome Lodge, link below:-

http://en.wikipedia....w_Welcome_Lodge

It is possible that Gandhi chose 8th August 1942, to make his "Quit India Speech" for numerology factors regarding 8th day 8th month, we will never know:-

http://en.wikipedia....it_India_speech

Please scroll down link below to "Pre-Independence Era:-

The first Indian National Congress was held in Bombay, now called Mumbai between 28th to 31st December 1885, midnight day marker was chosen while Alnilam was in the centre of the sky, during this period.

http://en.wikipedia....tional_Congress
http://en.wikipedia....1st_INC1885.jpg

The All India Muslim League were formed in Dacca, now Dharka, Bangladesh on 30th December 1906, midnight day marker was chosen again, while Sirius was in the centre of the sky, link below:-

http://en.wikipedia....a_Muslim_League

Astronomy Graph showing both on link below:-

http://2012forum.com...=6792&mode=view

Not all secret societies are bad, and indeed some did help India in its struggle for independence, but it makes you wonder how much history is down to belief in the stars and numerology, doesn't it?

Edited by monk 56, 31 October 2012 - 04:02 PM.


#22    kmt_sesh

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 02:18 AM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 31 October 2012 - 05:51 AM, said:

Posted Image
The above represents the typical rosette variations and most of them don't have a tapering pointed petals,(rosette=rose pattern).

The reason i pointed it out is because it serves a purpose to establish cultural similarities and for us to better understand the meaning of the motif.The lotus motif  was common in near eastern civilizations and Indian subcontinent

The number of petals as pointed out by Monk do serve a numerological and symbolic purpose.

The oldest attestations of the rosette of which I'm aware date to around the fourth millennium BCE and come from Egypt and Sumer. I am not aware of any evidence from these two cultures that the number of petals has any specific meaning—it's the overall motif that's significant. Of course, I cannot say the same for all of the other peoples who used to rosette, which included peoples all the way from Central Asia to the central Mediterranean.

Also, I cannot state that the rosette represents a lily or lotus in pharaonic Egypt, which had distinct iconography for such flowers and it tended to differ from the rosette.

Posted Image
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#23    monk 56

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 03:43 PM

No doubt i'm playing with you Kmt Seth,

A lot in reserve, mathematics with huge ancient pyramids matters, the concepts of load bearing bricks we find in geometry, thus how we were able to build that we can observe now, many centuries after.

Plato didn't invent Platonic solids, involved in building, indeed this comes from much earlier.



Please make as much fun as possible, but i might bite you later, ha ha?    You need to work hard to find link with mathematics!


#24    monk 56

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 04:25 PM

Obviously i will give something to research in this matter, considering my previous posts, Scotland is a factor, and MAESHOWE:-



Plato didn't invent geometry, i dont think Scotland did, but is our early find:-

http://www.daviddarl...polyhedron.html


#25    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 11:36 AM

Okay I admit its streched but thats why I started thread. To hear other people thoughts.
Thanks on your contribution.

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For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#26    monk 56

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 11:49 AM

Obviously the Royal Game of UR comes from 2,600 -2,000 BC.

http://www.britishmu...game_of_ur.aspx

Usually looking at geometric shapes in Muslim philosophy regarding this started around 700 AD. indeed muslims never show pictures in places of worship. but use geometric shapes regarding Phi and geometry, however this is very interesting if we think geometry and Platonic Solid imaging didn't start with the Greek Masters, i'm not saying i can decipher the patterns on the Royal Game of UR, but i still think it has meaning to it!

http://www.catnaps.o...c/geometry.html

http://www.catnaps.o.../geometry2.html

My study of Phi and geometry can be seen from thread section #113 onwards on link below:-

http://www.unexplain...c=233403&st=105


#27    monk 56

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 12:29 PM

Obviously MAESHOWE, isn't the only burial place in this region to know about geometry needed to show Winter Solstice at Sunset or Sunrise, there is NEWGRANGE in Ireland, link below:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newgrange

These people were not stupid, hell they didn't have an accurate clock to be able to show shortest day, and thus Winter Solstice, sometimes it is beyond me how they knew in mathematics, i bow down to them!


#28    Harte

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 12:59 PM

No real mathematical ability is required.

Just a couple of sticks and some stones with which to mark where the two stick aligned with the Sun at dawn each day for a year.

Harte

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#29    monk 56

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 01:12 PM

Hi Harte,

Yes you have a point, but in order to show shortest day, is very difficult without an accurate clock, in any location the shortest day is observed by the Sun, and we are talking about a few minutes here, you try it out without an accurate clock, your comment is always involved in having an accurate clock to show shortest day, perhaps you are saying that Newgrange had an accurate clock?

Now you would be at odds with everyone here if thats what you are bringing forward for debate!


#30    monk 56

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 01:45 PM

So Harte,

Please blind us with your mathematical skills, how do you show the shortest day by a bunch of sticks?    As the shortest day is measured by just few minutes and ancient man didn't have an accurate clock, sticks and stones matter, but tell me how ancient man determined the shortest day after all it is a puzzle without an accurate clock, it is determined by a few minutes regarding the length of the day, would you know that 21 December Winter Solstice was the shortist day when this is valued by a few minutes every day?





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