990 replies to this topic

[Babe Ruth]

TrueBeliever, on 17 October 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

How rude and derogatory would you be to a say...FBI agent with extensive knowledge and understanding of evidence who tells you there are many many problems, inconsistencies, omissions and cover ups with the official 'story?  Do you think they are all wacky conspiracy nuts too?

One's life experiences don't mean anything 'round here, ESPECIALLY if it does not comport with the OCT and government press releases.

FBI agents who peddle the official line are heros and scholars, but if one goes against the grain, he is a villain.

[skyeagle409]

Babe Ruth, on 18 October 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

One's life experiences don't mean anything 'round here, ESPECIALLY if it does not comport with the OCT and government press releases.

FBI agents who peddle the official line are heros and scholars, but if one goes against the grain, he is a villain.

And yet, not one shred of evidence has ever surfaced after more than 11 years that implicates the United States government in the 9/11 attacks.

[TrueBeliever]

skyeagle409, on 18 October 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

And yet, not one shred of evidence has ever surfaced after more than 11 years that implicates the United States government in the 9/11 attacks.

how naive are you???!!  People will DIE if they come forward! are you kidding me?!!

There are some REALLY good human beings who also happen to be govt agents that KNOW the truth, and have proof. But they have pretty much no support because of naive folks like you! IF there was MORE outrage and more support I think they could come forward much more safely. They will DIE if they do so now.......this makes me so angry I cannot even see straight!

You have NO clue,zero, none.......this isn't about the govt.....but about rogue powerful wealthy individuals within the govt that abuse and manipulate everything and everyone  to further their ideologies.

Please tell me you understand why those in the know can't speak? many knowing far less have already gone to their grave!

sheeple......sheep...following their' leaders' to the slaughterhouse. .............

there's much more evidence than you could ever handle!  
I kinda don't blame you for just buying the official line and not really looking at it all and accepting how effed up the crime was........
I am somewhat envious of anyone still so innocent and naive. ...some of us don't have the luxury of such naivete.Life is crueler to some than others and some of us had our eyes opened long before 9/11.
I promise you one thing, 9/11 was NOT a surprise to many many people. Many of the people whose duty was to protect and defend you and me and our entire country? they knew.......and it makes me want to vomit. The 3,000 people murdered in cold blood at least deserve the dignity of we the American people demanding a legitimate investigation. It hasn't happened yet, even many on the 9/11 Commission KNOW this and it troubles them also. Some resigned because of the belligerance and obstructive stance the WH took.

But guess what, because so many sheeple just believe every bunch of nonsense told them......there really is no incentive for anyone to trouble themselves with the fallout of a REAL investigation!

[Czero 101]

hmm

TrueBeliever, on 18 October 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

sheeple......sheep...following their' leaders' to the slaughterhouse. .............

* everything else snipped for brevity *

How disappointing... I had hoped that there was a chance for rational conversation here, but I see now that is not the case and that you have chosen your handle very wisely...


Have a good day...






Cz

[TrueBeliever]

Czero 101, on 18 October 2012 - 09:30 PM, said:

hmm


How disappointing... I had hoped that there was a chance for rational conversation here, but I see now that is not the case and that you have chosen your handle very wisely...


Have a good day...






Cz

the only thing I find irrational is how many people don't think a legitimate investigation of 9/11 is warranted!

I think the 3,000 murdered individuals deserve  that, there family deserves that...WE deserve that. We have not had that.

you could never understand the reasons for my outrage and heartbreak over the events of 9/11..........

Have a good day yourself.......

[booNyzarC]

TrueBeliever, on 18 October 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

how naive are you???!!  

Not very.  For example, I'm not naive enough to just take your word for it.

TrueBeliever, on 18 October 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

People will DIE if they come forward! are you kidding me?!!

There are some REALLY good human beings who also happen to be govt agents that KNOW the truth, and have proof.

How exactly do you know this?  Are you one of these people who are in the know?  A relative or friend of yours perhaps?

TrueBeliever, on 18 October 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

But they have pretty much no support because of naive folks like you! IF there was MORE outrage and more support I think they could come forward much more safely.

What does outrage have to do with it?  If there are people who have the evidence you claim that they have, shouldn't it be the evidence which generates outrage and not the other way around?

TrueBeliever, on 18 October 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

They will DIE if they do so now.......

Who is this "They" that you are referring to exactly?  Do you actually know anyone who has this information that you're talking about?

TrueBeliever, on 18 October 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

this makes me so angry I cannot even see straight!

Yes, your anger is apparent.  If it helps any, I'm not exactly happy with what happened on that day either.  I don't think many are.

TrueBeliever, on 18 October 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

You have NO clue,zero, none.......this isn't about the govt.....but about rogue powerful wealthy individuals within the govt that abuse and manipulate everything and everyone  to further their ideologies.

Who are these powerful wealthy individuals exactly and what is your proof that they are who you say they are?

TrueBeliever, on 18 October 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

Please tell me you understand why those in the know can't speak? many knowing far less have already gone to their grave!

Actually, this doesn't make any sense at all.  If someone truly had this kind of information and evidence to back it up, they would be safe from retribution if they simply disseminated it anonymously to news agencies and online.  Who exactly has gone to their graves already anyway?  I don't suppose the answer will consist of a YouTube video will it?

TrueBeliever, on 18 October 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

sheeple......sheep...following their' leaders' to the slaughterhouse. .............

Oh dear Oh dear.  Really?

TrueBeliever, on 18 October 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

there's much more evidence than you could ever handle!  

If there is so much evidence as you claim, why haven't you provided any at all?

TrueBeliever, on 18 October 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

I kinda don't blame you for just buying the official line and not really looking at it all and accepting how effed up the crime was........
I am somewhat envious of anyone still so innocent and naive. ...some of us don't have the luxury of such naivete.Life is crueler to some than others and some of us had our eyes opened long before 9/11.
I promise you one thing, 9/11 was NOT a surprise to many many people. Many of the people whose duty was to protect and defend you and me and our entire country? they knew.......and it makes me want to vomit. The 3,000 people murdered in cold blood at least deserve the dignity of we the American people demanding a legitimate investigation. It hasn't happened yet, even many on the 9/11 Commission KNOW this and it troubles them also. Some resigned because of the belligerance and obstructive stance the WH took.

But guess what, because so many sheeple just believe every bunch of nonsense told them......there really is no incentive for anyone to trouble themselves with the fallout of a REAL investigation!

So how many people need to believe this stuff on faith before people with verifiable evidence come forward?  Please take your time and provide a well reasoned answer.  I'd like to know.  A million?  Two?  More of a percentage perhaps?  30%? 50%? 75%?  At which point will these insiders feel safe enough to shed some verifiable light on the situation?

How many sheeple does it take to screw in a light bulb?

[skyeagle409]

TrueBeliever, on 18 October 2012 - 09:55 PM, said:

the only thing I find irrational is how many people don't think a legitimate investigation of 9/11 is warranted!

I think the 3,000 murdered individuals deserve  that, there family deserves that...WE deserve that. We have not had that.

you could never understand the reasons for my outrage and heartbreak over the events of 9/11..........

Have a good day yourself.......

Right now, the evidence supports the official story and If you don't trust the government, then talk to the folks at American Airlines, United Airlines, Rolls Royce, Boeing, Air Line Pilots Association, Allied Pilots Association,  American Institute of Architects, American Society of Civil Engineers, demolition experts at Protect and other demolition companies, and let them tell you why the 9/11 conspiracist are not on the right track.

http://www.implosion... of 9-8-06 .pdf

Edited by skyeagle409, 18 October 2012 - 11:00 PM.

[TrueBeliever]

booNyzarC, on 18 October 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:

Not very.  For example, I'm not naive enough to just take your word for it.




How exactly do you know this?  Are you one of these people who are in the know?  A relative or friend of yours perhaps?




What does outrage have to do with it?  If there are people who have the evidence you claim that they have, shouldn't it be the evidence which generates outrage and not the other way around?




Who is this "They" that you are referring to exactly?  Do you actually know anyone who has this information that you're talking about?




Yes, your anger is apparent.  If it helps any, I'm not exactly happy with what happened on that day either.  I don't think many are.




Who are these powerful wealthy individuals exactly and what is your proof that they are who you say they are?





Actually, this doesn't make any sense at all.  If someone truly had this kind of information and evidence to back it up, they would be safe from retribution if they simply disseminated it anonymously to news agencies and online.  Who exactly has gone to their graves already anyway?  I don't suppose the answer will consist of a YouTube video will it?





Oh dear Oh dear.  Really?





If there is so much evidence as you claim, why haven't you provided any at all?





So how many people need to believe this stuff on faith before people with verifiable evidence come forward?  Please take your time and provide a well reasoned answer.  I'd like to know.  A million?  Two?  More of a percentage perhaps?  30%? 50%? 75%?  At which point will these insiders feel safe enough to shed some verifiable light on the situation?

How many sheeple does it take to screw in a light bulb?

you don't need to believe anything on faith.....................you don't need to believe anything other the official story.
life is complicated and cruel. Nothing is black and white.
the level of frustration is so high. the betrayal. the deceit. the audacity. the corruption.....it makes a person a little crazy, I can tell you that.

it's not a joke you know......3,000 people murdered. brutally, coldly murdered. I think people forget that part.
this isn't about me being 'right' or you being right or winning a debate.it's about demanding accountability and not settling for the official story when you know it;s bs

.

[TrueBeliever]

skyeagle409, on 18 October 2012 - 10:59 PM, said:

Right now, the evidence supports the official story and If you don't trust the government, then talk to the folks at American Airlines, United Airlines, Rolls Royce, Boeing, Air Line Pilots Association, Allied Pilots Association,  American Institute of Architects, American Society of Civil Engineers, demolition experts at Protect and other demolition companies, and let them tell you why the 9/11 conspiracist are not on the right track.

http://www.implosion... of 9-8-06 .pdf

there are many 9/11 conspiracists not on the right track....no argument there!


that does not mean the official story is accurate and it does not mean we have had a legitimate investigation.

[booNyzarC]

TrueBeliever, on 18 October 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

you don't need to believe anything on faith.....................

And yet that is exactly what you are asking us to do when you make these outrageous claims with absolutely nothing substantial to back them up.

TrueBeliever, on 18 October 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

you don't need to believe anything other the official story.

I believe what the evidence tells me.  So far the evidence supports the established historically documented version of events.  If you have evidence which proves this version wrong, shame on you for withholding it from the rest of the world.  If you don't, shame on you for lying about it.

TrueBeliever, on 18 October 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

life is complicated and cruel. Nothing is black and white.

Some things are black and white, but I agree that life is both complicated and cruel.  The events of that day were horrible.  We're all outraged by it.  You aren't alone in that.

TrueBeliever, on 18 October 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

the level of frustration is so high. the betrayal. the deceit. the audacity. the corruption.....

Again, your frustration is apparent.  As for betrayal, deceit, audacity, and corruption...  evidence please?

TrueBeliever, on 18 October 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

it makes a person a little crazy, I can tell you that.

We can all see that.

TrueBeliever, on 18 October 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

it's not a joke you know......3,000 people murdered. brutally, coldly murdered.  I think people forget that part.

You are under the impression that I think this is a joke?  You are under the impression that I or anyone else have actually forgotten about that day?

The only joke here is that some people make claims that they cannot back up.  The only joke here is that there is absolutely nothing in support of the conspiracy which you've wrapped your anger around.  In that sense, the joke is on you.  Unless, of course, you ever bother to bring some evidence to the table.  Considering that you've brought absolutely nothing that even remotely resembles evidence after multiple requests, I doubt seriously if you're going to surprise us with something now.

TrueBeliever, on 18 October 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

this isn't about me being 'right' or you being right or winning a debate.it's about demanding accountability and not settling for the official story when you know it;s bs

.

Then produce some evidence in support of what you claim.  Until you do so, you're just going to look like a stark raving mad lunatic.  Sorry, but that's the Truth.

[MID]

TrueBeliever, on 18 October 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

you don't need to believe anything on faith.....................you don't need to believe anything other the official story.
life is complicated and cruel. Nothing is black and white.
the level of frustration is so high. the betrayal. the deceit. the audacity. the corruption.....it makes a person a little crazy, I can tell you that.

it's not a joke you know......3,000 people murdered. brutally, coldly murdered. I think people forget that part.
this isn't about me being 'right' or you being right or winning a debate.it's about demanding accountability and not settling for the official story when you know it;s bs

.

Now, it's actually about you, and the few like you here...proving your case:

...That the "official story" is B.S.

That would, for once, be a good start...as we haven't actually had a single person do so, not in the least!
It might be a wee bit interesting to see one person start!

Edited by MID, 18 October 2012 - 11:29 PM.

[skyeagle409]

TrueBeliever, on 18 October 2012 - 11:02 PM, said:

there are many 9/11 conspiracists not on the right track....no argument there!


that does not mean the official story is accurate and it does not mean we have had a legitimate investigation.

There are many ways to gather information other than from government sources. In the aviation world there are tons and tons of documentation that will shed light on facts surrounding the 9/11 attacks. Furthermore, radar data and ATC communication tapes are available as well.

Intelligence missteps and blunders are nothing new and have been going on for decades. Remember, J. Edgar Hoover dismissed reports about Japanese aerial training from a double agent prior to the Pearl Harbor attack and on December 7, 1941, the attack on Pearl Harbor became history, but Pearl Harbor was not to only base that was attacked. We had other bases in the Pacific  as well and we were prepared in the Philippines because warnings were sent to our troops there, but we still took a serious hit at Clark despite the warning of an impending Japanese attack.

9/11 conspiracist like to make comparisons between Pearl Harbor and the 9/11 attacks because they say there was no warning, but they are not aware of the rest of the story. General Short reposition aircraft at Hickam airfield, Hawaii due to possible sabotage prior to the Japanese attack, which was a major blunder on his part as was the case with J. Edgar Hoover.

Quote

Clark Air Base: The Pearl of the Philippines




When word reached Clark of the attacks at Pearl Harbor, many of the planes had been sent aloft. When the attacks didn’t come, the planes were brought back and parked so they could be refueled and the crews could eat.
And it was then that the Japanese arrived, and proceeded to demolish the place. Like Hawaii, war had come to the islands of the Philippines.

http://todayshistory...he-philippines/

.
Just a series of blunders that had nothing to do with government conspiracies.

Edited by skyeagle409, 18 October 2012 - 11:49 PM.

[Q24]

booNyzarC, on 18 October 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:

Who is this "They" that you are referring to exactly?  Do you actually know anyone who has this information that you're talking about?

I don’t normally give much notice to claims that individuals with damaging information on 9/11 risk their lives in coming forward.  I think those with snippets of information that challenge the official story more rather risk their jobs than lives.  But this case of alleged suicide did make me take notice: -

http://www.prisonpla..._connection.htm

I’m sorry about the source, it’s not usually one I’d go for but it gives outline of the story and, if you look into it, you will see that the evidence is credible; coming from the victim herself and Wayne Madsen, a former Navy and NSA employee.  Basically it appears that Madam Palfrey was set to expose members of the government for untoward activity along with a connection to information that existed prior to the 9/11 event.  She stated herself that she was, “not planning to commit suicide”... before then, prior to her trial, where she vowed, “"I plan on exposing the government in ways that I do not think they want me to expose them", allegedly committing suicide... hmm.

I do think some individuals would go so far to prevent damaging information coming out.

[lightly]

I don't buy the official explanations.     I've always thought remote control might have been a possibility.  It would take the involvement of very few people.   .. as would the planning.
   here is a link that speaks to the possibility:  http://www.public-action.com/911/noradsend.html  

. . ."Controlling the aircraft from the ground is nothing new.  The military has been flying obsolete high performance fighter aircraft as target drones since the 1950s.  In fact, NORAD (the North American Air Defense Command) had at its disposal a number of U.S. Air Force General Dynamics F-106 Delta Dart fighter aircraft configured to be remotely flown into combat as early as 1959 under the auspices of a program known as SAGE.  These aircraft could be started, taxied, taken off, flown into combat, fight, and return to a landing entirely by remote control, with the only human intervention needed being to fuel and re-arm them."

Re-read that final sentence in the above quote:

"These [NORAD] aircraft could be started, taxied, taken off, flown into combat, fight, and return to a landing entirely by remote control … "

Given over 40 years of institutional experience, flying remotely controlled "suicide" jets into the World Trade Center towers would have been a piece of cake for NORAD.    

(sorry, the  link  doesn't seem to be 'clickable'... copy and past web address to your browser)

Edited by lightly, 19 October 2012 - 12:06 PM.

[Babe Ruth]

booNyzarC, on 18 October 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

And yet that is exactly what you are asking us to do when you make these outrageous claims with absolutely nothing substantial to back them up.




I believe what the evidence tells me.  So far the evidence supports the established historically documented version of events.  If you have evidence which proves this version wrong, shame on you for withholding it from the rest of the world.  If you don't, shame on you for lying about it.





Some things are black and white, but I agree that life is both complicated and cruel.  The events of that day were horrible.  We're all outraged by it.  You aren't alone in that.





Again, your frustration is apparent.  As for betrayal, deceit, audacity, and corruption...  evidence please?





We can all see that.




You are under the impression that I think this is a joke?  You are under the impression that I or anyone else have actually forgotten about that day?

The only joke here is that some people make claims that they cannot back up.  The only joke here is that there is absolutely nothing in support of the conspiracy which you've wrapped your anger around.  In that sense, the joke is on you.  Unless, of course, you ever bother to bring some evidence to the table.  Considering that you've brought absolutely nothing that even remotely resembles evidence after multiple requests, I doubt seriously if you're going to surprise us with something now.





Then produce some evidence in support of what you claim.  Until you do so, you're just going to look like a stark raving mad lunatic.  Sorry, but that's the Truth.

Outrageous claims?

Here are some outrageous claims that the OCT makes: that the fires at WTC were hot enough to weaken steel, that there was a Boeing at Shanksville and at the Pentagon, that despite all the destruction and mayhem at WTC, certain identification documents were found in almost pristine condition, that it is perfectly normal for jetfuel and gravity to generate sufficient heat to keep steel molten for weeks and to blister paint and melt tires of vehicles on the street.

ETC ETC

It is the official story that advances outrageous claims sir, and that is why so many common folks don't buy into the story.  The most superficial scrutiny of the story reveals so many outrageous claims that it's impossible to count them all.