Demons, what are they?

[WoIverine]

It doesn't matter what demons are, whether extraterrestrial or not. God gave us power, and authority over them as well as the angels themselves.

[goodconversations]

I think this is the default position for most people. But to maintain that position you have to deny other dimensions, or say all dimensions are in your own head.

Not necessarily. Dimensions may exist but without demons.. or maybe we exist on multiple dimensions and demons continue to be parts of us but on a different dimension than this one..i'm actually open to all explanations because i can't choose one single explanation as the explanation.. i just happen to prefer thinking of them as parts of us because to me this can accommodate the other explanations i heard one way or the other...

Then they think they are losing their mind and can actually lose their mind, but the situation has to be very extreme for that level of desperation. That level of desperation is exactly what the demonic realm thrives on

I think as one species we all share common "things" that trigger/unleash the demon(s) in us. But, also individually we have our own "customized" triggers...

Edited March 29, 2013 by goodconversations

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

In the post above yousaid the following: This thread is about what demons are, yet it is already predicated that demons are anything that Christians are not.

I am as such interested in what you think they are, you have not as far as I can see explained your view, just commented on what your isn't.

That depends on definition of a demon. This will vary between people and religions. To me, what most would call a demon is simply another form of life. It is not any demi-god or creature of some devil, it lives in the shadow world between this and the other places. It is not evil or good, it simply exists. It has powers, and can use these for whatever purposes it desires. Generally it could be said to be amoral towards us. Imps and elves are what you may call a demon, but I know they are simply other. As for demons in another sense, in the destructive sense, then to me demons are from us, within us, the primeaval side of humanity. And I will be clear and say such demons are not from any god or gods, but are the dark side of humanity. We need no real demons as we have more than sufficient capacity for any evil. The 20th century is evidence of that

Edited March 29, 2013 by Atentutankh-pasheri

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

Yet that which is behind the veil, behind Ra, is also behind the primeaval chaos and before that the great void.

So, braveone2u, may the rays of Aten shine on you, and as this is an English site, may you enjoy the great festival of Eostra. May your hares run fast, your bunnies multiply and your pagan choclate eggs be tasty.

Hi Atentutankh-pasheri,

One thing: in my whole being, the Void didn't feel natural; in fact, I felt betrayed..., as in being cast down a lonely (unmatchable dark) pit -- UNJUSTLY. I could only go by how my eternal being (soul or presence) understood the situation. I was actually bewildered why this "Bright Being" (with an ever-flowing "unconditional love" presence) came to the rescue in my moment of utter despair because the last time I died, I was not a practicing Christian. I think to myself now that how did I deserve His compassion? I was baptized when I was a baby, but it's not the same as being "born again." I was already a yogi of 20 years (Rudrananda/Shiva/Shakaracharya lineage) when that Void incident happened. Perhaps Jesus(?) knew something I still don't know about the history of my soul.

When I was in my teens, being a yogi was a trendy thing to do. I've met a lot of wonderful, loving, authentic people through this path. It made me a better person, I believe. I learned how to go inward... On the other hand, I don't think I consciously left behind my Christian root completely. At any rate, the Void incident changed my life, absolutely.

I respect your humanity. I respect your firm belief in your religion -- how could I not. Who am I to judge? It seems to me you find the Void appealing -- may you get your wish. I, on the other hand, need the promise of Paradise, to be with my Lord's "unconditional love" presence.

Thank you for the blessings!

[Jor-el]

The stars are angels, the third become demons. The angel of light is satan.

Yes, danielost, I know that is what most people think, but is there any place in the bible, any place at all that connects the two? We are making assumptions here when the bible never once tells us that this is the case.

Yes there are fallen angels, These are the stars you mentioned, but nowhere, nowhere at all are fallen angels called demons, not even close, as a matter of fact they are always referred to as angels one way or the other.

There is not one verse in the entire bible that calls fallen angels, demons.

[Jor-el]

That depends on definition of a demon. This will vary between people and religions. To me, what most would call a demon is simply another form of life. It is not any demi-god or creature of some devil, it lives in the shadow world between this and the other places. It is not evil or good, it simply exists. It has powers, and can use these for whatever purposes it desires. Generally it could be said to be amoral towards us. Imps and elves are what you may call a demon, but I know they are simply other. As for demons in another sense, in the destructive sense, then to me demons are from us, within us, the primeaval side of humanity. And I will be clear and say such demons are not from any god or gods, but are the dark side of humanity. We need no real demons as we have more than sufficient capacity for any evil. The 20th century is evidence of that

And what do you mean by the "shadow world", are you referring to a spirtual realm, a higher dimension or are you referring to something else?

See, I'm trying to understand your view here but for that I also have to understand some things, like the terms you use and take for granted.

In your view what are imps and elves? This is alogical question because anybody whos read Lord of the Rings will have a preconcieved idea of what you have said and I am trying to avoid that.

[danielost]

Yes, danielost, I know that is what most people think, but is there any place in the bible, any place at all that connects the two? We are making assumptions here when the bible never once tells us that this is the case.

Yes there are fallen angels, These are the stars you mentioned, but nowhere, nowhere at all are fallen angels called demons, not even close, as a matter of fact they are always referred to as angels one way or the other.

There is not one verse in the entire bible that calls fallen angels, demons.

You and me andf everyone else on earth were type of angels.

[markprice]

It doesn't matter what demons are, whether extraterrestrial or not. God gave us power, and authority over them as well as the angels themselves.

So you have power over angels. Make one manifest before your next post, so that it will be Divinely inspired, then send it to me to translate the ancient language (you can't possibly understand) so only I can read it, thanks.

Not necessarily. Dimensions may exist but without demons.. or maybe we exist on multiple dimensions and demons continue to be parts of us but on a different dimension than this one..i'm actually open to all explanations because i can't choose one single explanation as the explanation.. i just happen to prefer thinking of them as parts of us because to me this can accommodate the other explanations i heard one way or the other...

You can't really limit other dimensions to reflect your own comfort zone. I think that's how most horror movies begin: everything seems great...then what the hell is that!

That depends on definition of a demon. This will vary between people and religions. To me, what most would call a demon is simply another form of life. It is not any demi-god or creature of some devil, it lives in the shadow world between this and the other places. It is not evil or good, it simply exists. It has powers, and can use these for whatever purposes it desires. Generally it could be said to be amoral towards us. Imps and elves are what you may call a demon, but I know they are simply other. As for demons in another sense, in the destructive sense, then to me demons are from us, within us, the primeaval side of humanity. And I will be clear and say such demons are not from any god or gods, but are the dark side of humanity. We need no real demons as we have more than sufficient capacity for any evil. The 20th century is evidence of that

Sounds like you are talking about elementals or jinn. Religions and cultures tend to confuse things for several reasons, one being the truth is so stark. No nuance or ambiguity with a demon unless they are cloaked in it. Not kind of good or sort of evil. If you are thinking like that you are making an analogy for the human condition, not the demonic realm.

[WoIverine]

So you have power over angels. Make one manifest before your next post, so that it will be Divinely inspired, then send it to me to translate the ancient language (you can't possibly understand) so only I can read it, thanks.

Looks like you have some reading to do, before you ask, no, I'm not going to spoon feed it to you, got better things to do, like anything.

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

Sounds like you are talking about elementals or jinn. Religions and cultures tend to confuse things for several reasons, one being the truth is so stark. No nuance or ambiguity with a demon unless they are cloaked in it. Not kind of good or sort of evil. If you are thinking like that you are making an analogy for the human condition, not the demonic realm.

Yes, I know exactly what you mean, though I make a difference between us and not us. The real demons are us, or the potential for evil within us. Creatures from folklore and myths are not us and some are elementals and some from somewhere else. Perhaps a parralel universe that is connected to ours at some actual locations, or sometimes within our minds, though not from us, not simply imagination. I have no dogma on this as I simply do not know, except that what I have experienced, and that is laid out in other threads on this forum.

Edited March 30, 2013 by Atentutankh-pasheri

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

And what do you mean by the "shadow world", are you referring to a spirtual realm, a higher dimension or are you referring to something else?

See, I'm trying to understand your view here but for that I also have to understand some things, like the terms you use and take for granted.

In your view what are imps and elves? This is alogical question because anybody whos read Lord of the Rings will have a preconcieved idea of what you have said and I am trying to avoid that.

Generally a parralel universe that is connected to ours here and there, even within a persons mind. I use the words imps and elves because it is convenient and because I would otherwise need to create new names, and perhaps that would be more confusing. People in the past gave names to things they did not understand, and may have feared because they were different and seemed magical. The way that elves and other such creatures are shown is from folk memory passed down the ages. It can seem that I and many others take imagery from LoR, but the reverse is true. I saw things when I was child, smaller than LoR elves, more ethereal. They came before any films or 19th century fantasies, they were always here I think.

[H132]

"Demon" derives from a long line of variation but originated from the Latin word "daemonium" recaptured in Greek as "daimnion". The word daemonium was often used to refer to the demigods of the ancient world who flew around in chariots of fire and self-appointed themselves as lords of the people. (AKA "Ancient Aliens"). History just manages to convert one word to another over time until it adopts new meaning and newer misconceptions as to who or what they really are.

[danielost]

I believe,is that most people believe that it is a demon or satans fault. It isn't, of all ofg he people jesus helps onle 2 or 3 of them were possesed. The rest he told them to sin no more.

[Jor-el]

You and me andf everyone else on earth were type of angels.

I think that needs abit more explaining on your part before I can comment.

In my view we were never a type of angel, we were created above the angels, we lost that position though when mankind sinned and were cast out of Eden.

[Jor-el]

Generally a parralel universe that is connected to ours here and there, even within a persons mind. I use the words imps and elves because it is convenient and because I would otherwise need to create new names, and perhaps that would be more confusing. People in the past gave names to things they did not understand, and may have feared because they were different and seemed magical. The way that elves and other such creatures are shown is from folk memory passed down the ages. It can seem that I and many others take imagery from LoR, but the reverse is true. I saw things when I was child, smaller than LoR elves, more ethereal. They came before any films or 19th century fantasies, they were always here I think.

So you are saying that there are interdimensional doorways between our universe and others and that the beings of those other universes are the origin of the folklore that led people to speak of demons and other creatures?

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

So you are saying that there are interdimensional doorways between our universe and others and that the beings of those other universes are the origin of the folklore that led people to speak of demons and other creatures?

Yes

[Jor-el]

Yes

That is not so different from what I believe as well, I do not believe we are talking of alternate universes but rather of a higher dimension in our own universe and that higher dimension is what we call the spirit world.

Yet I also believe that is also the place we go to after death.

Those beings can visit our world as well, but they have no need of portals, they can make their own anywhere they want to.

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

That is not so different from what I believe as well, I do not believe we are talking of alternate universes but rather of a higher dimension in our own universe and that higher dimension is what we call the spirit world.

Yet I also believe that is also the place we go to after death.

Those beings can visit our world as well, but they have no need of portals, they can make their own anywhere they want to.

I think it is parallel universe, though how we could know if that was so, or if it was a different and undreamed of part of this universe would be difficult to determine. About if it is where we go to when dead, well, I quote loosely from an ancient Egyptian skeptic (and this is from memory, not some source to quote chapter and verse for pedants). "We make all these preperations for death, make all these offerings, yet nobody ever comes back and says what happens". Fear of punishment from some supreme god, and fear of oblivion after death make us believe all sorts of strange things.

[Jor-el]

I think it is parallel universe, though how we could know if that was so, or if it was a different and undreamed of part of this universe would be difficult to determine. About if it is where we go to when dead, well, I quote loosely from an ancient Egyptian skeptic (and this is from memory, not some source to quote chapter and verse for pedants). "We make all these preperations for death, make all these offerings, yet nobody ever comes back and says what happens". Fear of punishment from some supreme god, and fear of oblivion after death make us believe all sorts of strange things.

It is not our place to come back, we never do come back, our job is done after death. Our place is to prepare our minds and our hearts for that journey. The ancient Egyptians took that message to heart as did most of the ancient cultures before us.

The fear of punishment, is a result not of some Gods judgement, it is the result of actions we knew to be wrong and did anyway, it is our conscience speaking to us, our conscience would not do that if we ourselves did not consider those actions to be wrong.

There is a story that God does not judge us in the end, he lets us judge ourselves... without the mask of self justification.

[danielost]

I think that needs abit more explaining on your part before I can comment.

In my view we were never a type of angel, we were created above the angels, we lost that position though when mankind sinned and were cast out of Eden.

All living things on earth have a soul. These souls were in heaven before there was an earth. There are four type of angels.

1. Those failed their first test, these became the animals and plants.

2. The fallen angels. Ie the demons and satan. They failed the second test.

4. Angels without bodies. These are the ones that became us.

5. Gods brothers and sisters, who made it to heaven in their time, but did not become gods.

A being with a physical body is above those without one. Which is why when christ exercised leagen, they wanted to posses the hugs.

[Rlyeh]

All living things on earth have a soul. These souls were in heaven before there was an earth. There are four type of angels.

1. Those failed their first test, these became the animals and plants.

2. The fallen angels. Ie the demons and satan. They failed the second test.

4. Angels without bodies. These are the ones that became us.

5. Gods brothers and sisters, who made it to heaven in their time, but did not become gods.

A being with a physical body is above those without one. Which is why when christ exercised leagen, they wanted to posses the hugs.

Does God's bothers and sisters have names?

[danielost]

Does God's bothers and sisters have names?

Probable I don't know them. They are called angels or messangers. These were tha type that ate with abraham.

[Jor-el]

All living things on earth have a soul. These souls were in heaven before there was an earth. There are four type of angels.

1. Those failed their first test, these became the animals and plants.

2. The fallen angels. Ie the demons and satan. They failed the second test.

4. Angels without bodies. These are the ones that became us.

5. Gods brothers and sisters, who made it to heaven in their time, but did not become gods.

A being with a physical body is above those without one. Which is why when christ exercised leagen, they wanted to posses the hugs.

Could you defend any of those positions with actual biblical scripture?

I think not.

[Jor-el]

It staggers me how one could define their entire belief system on what a few thousand year old book says, it really does. Biblical scripture, particularly on the subject of demons, couldn't be any more wrong. Sorry to break it to you.

I don't accept that, but you are free to think so if that helps you figure it out...

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

I saw things when I was child, smaller than LoR elves, more ethereal. They came before any films or 19th century fantasies, they were always here I think.

Hi Atentutankh-pasheri,

Do you think these small beings were restless, shape-shifting ghosts, or fairies? Jesus believed in ghosts, not necessarily evil spirits. The Bible also talks about it.

"But Jesus told them, 'What's frightening you? And why are you doubting? Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.'" Luke 24:38-39

"The king said to her, 'Don't be afraid. What do you see?' The woman said, 'I see a ghostly figure coming up out of the earth.'" 1 Samuel 28:13

Peace.

Edited March 30, 2013 by braveone2u