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The Rise of the AntiChrist


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#16    TheSearcher

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Posted 25 August 2009 - 07:46 AM

View PostEmma_Acid, on 24 August 2009 - 04:32 PM, said:

....
You don't need an expert to see what Revelation is about. The fact that the Whore of Babylon is dressed in purple is a pretty good indication that its a metaphor for Rome, who at that point persecuted Christians.

There are right wing Christians in America who think that nuclear war in the middle east which destroys Jerusalem would herald the return of Christ, but you don't need to know much about politics to see that these people are the wrong side of insane.

The Whore of Babylon is dressed in purple is actually not the only indication, but it's the most known and direct one. Besides, even National Geographic gives into "wild speculation" documentaries sometimes, not unlike the History Channel.

Well right wing beliefs are per definition a few sandwiches short of a pic-nic.

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#17    Sir_Quack_The_Wack

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Posted 25 August 2009 - 11:21 AM

View PostKRS-One, on 23 August 2009 - 10:02 PM, said:

Matt's right.

The book of Revelation was written regarding the persecution of early Christians under Roman authority.  The whole thing is quite literally a ****-fest for persecuted early christians to hold out hope that terrible things would befall Rome allowing them to no longer suffer under them.

As it turns out, one of Rome's emporer's went crazy and lost a bet with himself, converting to Christianity, ending persecution.  After which time, Christians were pretty ok with Rome.

The whole book is an alternative-history science fiction, much like we'd read about a zombie apocalypse or Armageddon story because it makes us think there will be justice against vague, overpowering forces, and we'll all be heroes and act all cool, so was it to them.

Ignorant, a little.

"From atop these pyramids, forty centuries look down upon you." -- Napoleon Bonaparte to his soldiers before the Battle of Giza, 1798

#18    Tiggs

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Posted 25 August 2009 - 11:33 AM

View PostSir_Quack_The_Wack, on 25 August 2009 - 11:21 AM, said:

Ignorant, a little.
Then perhaps instead of using your time to insult people, you could use it to correct them, instead.

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#19    TheSearcher

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Posted 25 August 2009 - 11:50 AM

View PostSir_Quack_The_Wack, on 25 August 2009 - 11:21 AM, said:

Ignorant, a little.

How is that ignorant? I might not have worded it the same way, but the book of Revelation was indeed written, in order to hold out hope, during the persecutions of the Roman Empire. The symbolic in it is clear enough in that regard.

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#20    Jessem

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 02:26 AM

View PostTheSearcher, on 25 August 2009 - 11:50 AM, said:

How is that ignorant? I might not have worded it the same way, but the book of Revelation was indeed written, in order to hold out hope, during the persecutions of the Roman Empire. The symbolic in it is clear enough in that regard.
The bible IMO is supposed to be used to reference the current times. As in the world cycles all the time, and I believe you can always use the bible as a reference. Its a symbolic view of the world and its uncertainess. Its gives a sort of idea on how a good life could be led and the history of our forefathers. The new testomate is applied usually for years ahead of its own time as well as the events occuring during the writing process. Its a message, and a good book to help people along the way. Humanity is inperfect and thats what makes this world living. Theres always something to improve and make better. Thats why we are here.

The secret of life is'nt trying to figure out the secret, its about living it.

#21    TheSearcher

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 02:53 PM

View PostJessem, on 26 August 2009 - 02:26 AM, said:

The bible IMO is supposed to be used to reference the current times. As in the world cycles all the time, and I believe you can always use the bible as a reference. Its a symbolic view of the world and its uncertainess. Its gives a sort of idea on how a good life could be led and the history of our forefathers. The new testomate is applied usually for years ahead of its own time as well as the events occuring during the writing process. Its a message, and a good book to help people along the way. Humanity is inperfect and thats what makes this world living. Theres always something to improve and make better. Thats why we are here.

I would say yes to one part of what you say, but with caution. The bible can be used as historical reference, on how part of the people in the middle east lived, yes, but it's to be taken with a grain of salt, imo. As to how a good life should be led, I hope that would rather apply to the new testament part, as in the old testament there's a lot of warring, smiting and punishing going on.

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#22    KRS-One

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 05:21 PM

View PostSir_Quack_The_Wack, on 25 August 2009 - 11:21 AM, said:

Ignorant, a little.

Enlighten me, Quack.  Please feel free to tell me what I said that was so ignorant.


#23    Jessem

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 05:35 PM

View PostTheSearcher, on 26 August 2009 - 02:53 PM, said:

I would say yes to one part of what you say, but with caution. The bible can be used as historical reference, on how part of the people in the middle east lived, yes, but it's to be taken with a grain of salt, imo. As to how a good life should be led, I hope that would rather apply to the new testament part, as in the old testament there's a lot of warring, smiting and punishing going on.
Of course the new testament, lol. The old shows our primative nature and explains where our violent nature expels from. We've just grown to show a little more emotion and compassion.

The secret of life is'nt trying to figure out the secret, its about living it.

#24    Sir_Quack_The_Wack

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 09:39 AM

View PostTiggs, on 25 August 2009 - 11:33 AM, said:

Then perhaps instead of using your time to insult people, you could use it to correct them, instead.

From the Forum's Rules:

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Sir, I was not rude. I simply said they were ignorant. I even added 'a little', which isn't even my real opinion, because they seem to be very ignorant to me.

When I see someone marking off mine and others' beliefs as 'preposterous', 'unbelievable', 'laughable' etcetera, I point out to them that it is ignorant.

I made that post, and I can assure you I meant no rudeness in it.


"From atop these pyramids, forty centuries look down upon you." -- Napoleon Bonaparte to his soldiers before the Battle of Giza, 1798

#25    Sir_Quack_The_Wack

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 09:48 AM

View PostKRS-One, on 26 August 2009 - 05:21 PM, said:

Enlighten me, Quack.  Please feel free to tell me what I said that was so ignorant.

First, I'd rather you not call me 'Quack'. Sir Quack or Clayton will do just fine.

Now, here is what I think is ignorant:

"The book of Revelation was written regarding the persecution of early Christians under Roman authority. The whole thing is quite literally a ****-fest for persecuted early christians to hold out hope that terrible things would befall Rome allowing them to no longer suffer under them."

This is in no case true, and posting such a thing and not backing it up by some reliable source is frustrating.

I also find your attitude of taking something and crossing/marking it off like a teacher does with a spelling test to be quite ignorant, it's as if you write your opinion to be so very powerful that what you say is done. You remind me also of a speeding driver, you wouldn't stop for anyone. I find this ignorant.


"As it turns out, one of Rome's emporer's went crazy and lost a bet with himself, converting to Christianity, ending persecution. After which time, Christians were pretty ok with Rome."


I need a source for this, again. And here again is your teacher-to-student, genius-to-infant attitude again. It's all very ignorant to me.

"The whole book is an alternative-history science fiction, much like we'd read about a zombie apocalypse or Armageddon story because it makes us think there will be justice against vague, overpowering forces, and we'll all be heroes and act all cool, so was it to them."

And this is so incredibly ignorant, it nearly made my head explode. Alternative-history? Examples, please. The Bible spoke of many historical events and leaders long before archaeologists even knew of them, such as Pilate. It also accurately accounts the conflicts in Jerusalem, and the wars between Egypt and the Middle-East.

And the way you phrase that, also. It sounds to me like you are describing it like a modern work, the Bible is indeed ancient so the words 'cool' and 'science fiction' do not apply here.


Edited by Sir_Quack_The_Wack, 27 August 2009 - 09:48 AM.

"From atop these pyramids, forty centuries look down upon you." -- Napoleon Bonaparte to his soldiers before the Battle of Giza, 1798

#26    DONTEATUS

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 03:46 PM

Purple is myfav color ! Does that make me the Ante-Christ?

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#27    Jessem

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 07:28 PM

View PostDONTEATUS, on 27 August 2009 - 03:46 PM, said:

Purple is myfav color ! Does that make me the Ante-Christ?
it might make you the one eyed one horned flying purple people eater though?

The secret of life is'nt trying to figure out the secret, its about living it.

#28    TheSearcher

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 06:21 AM

View PostJessem, on 27 August 2009 - 07:28 PM, said:

it might make you the one eyed one horned flying purple people eater though?

The what now? He a minion of the flying spaghetti monster?

It is only the ignorant who despise education.
Publilius Syrus.

So god made me an atheist. Who are you to question his wisdom?!

#29    KRS-One

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 06:52 PM

View PostSir_Quack_The_Wack, on 27 August 2009 - 09:48 AM, said:


"The book of Revelation was written regarding the persecution of early Christians under Roman authority. The whole thing is quite literally a ****-fest for persecuted early christians to hold out hope that terrible things would befall Rome allowing them to no longer suffer under them."

This is in no case true, and posting such a thing and not backing it up by some reliable source is frustrating.

I also find your attitude of taking something and crossing/marking it off like a teacher does with a spelling test to be quite ignorant, it's as if you write your opinion to be so very powerful that what you say is done. You remind me also of a speeding driver, you wouldn't stop for anyone. I find this ignorant.

Quack,  There are many sources that state that the book of revelations is as I describe it.  I'd suggest that you read the following as a decent precursor:
http://www.pbs.org/w...tion/white.html

This is an article by L. Michael White, Professor of Classics and Christian Origins at the University of Texas at Austin.  I would posit that a professor of Christian Origins for UT may have the credentials you would find important when discussing the symbology present in the book of revelations.  An excellent example of the types of comparisons he makes:

Quote

The key to understanding the situation is in the vibrant symbolic language that is so typical of ancient apocalyptic writings. The author viewed the religious and political force of Roman rule as a threat. It is now thought that this arose in Ephesus after the year 89 CE when Domitian instituted a new imperial cult sanctuary dedicated to his family, the Flavian dynasty.
...
Accordingly, the woman sits on the seven-headed beast as a symbol of her "seven hills" -- the seven hills of Rome. The woman is the city of Rome, here depicted as the persecutor of Christians. Then it says that the seven heads are also seven kings. And we can read from its cryptic terminology the references to the Emperors of Rome. The "five fallen" refer to the five emperors who have died: Augustus (29 BCE - 14 CE), Tiberius (14-37 CE), Gaius (37-41), Claudius (41-54) and Nero (54-68). "One has a wound" refers to the emperor Nero, who died in 68, but whom contemporary legend had it would return from the dead to continue persecuting the Christians.

Quote


"As it turns out, one of Rome's emporer's went crazy and lost a bet with himself, converting to Christianity, ending persecution. After which time, Christians were pretty ok with Rome."


I need a source for this, again. And here again is your teacher-to-student, genius-to-infant attitude again. It's all very ignorant to me.

Well Quack, maybe I come off sounding like a teacher because you've never heard of what I'm talking about, and what I'm stating is already acknowledged historical fact.  The roman emperor I'm referring to is Constantine who adopted Christianity as a way to try to motivate his troops for a battle.  He got lucky, won, and decided to keep on board the Jesus train.  You may be familiar with the phrase In Hoc Signo Vinces which is what he was apparently told when presented with the design of the labarum.

Source over view, here-  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_I_(emperor)
I can provide more if you'd like.


Quote

"The whole book is an alternative-history science fiction, much like we'd read about a zombie apocalypse or Armageddon story because it makes us think there will be justice against vague, overpowering forces, and we'll all be heroes and act all cool, so was it to them."

And this is so incredibly ignorant, it nearly made my head explode. Alternative-history? Examples, please. The Bible spoke of many historical events and leaders long before archaeologists even knew of them, such as Pilate. It also accurately accounts the conflicts in Jerusalem, and the wars between Egypt and the Middle-East.

And the way you phrase that, also. It sounds to me like you are describing it like a modern work, the Bible is indeed ancient so the words 'cool' and 'science fiction' do not apply here.

I'm not sure what you mean by examples of alternative history.  Are you looking for other works that are alternative history?  There's an author that writes a decent number of books (I personally haven't read them) by the name of Harry Turtledove.  
If you are asking how the book of revelation itself would be considered alternative history, in comparing it to early christian struggles with Rome, an apocalypse that never happened is by definition alternative history.  It describes a fictive series of events that did not occur within the time line it deals with.  Its the same thing as writing a book about what would have happened if the south won the civil war, say.  It's a description of potential events that did not actually occur.
It has nothing to do with what archeologists know about other facts in the bible.

The words "cool" and "science fiction" do, in fact, belong their as their meaning may be new, but their definitions are not, and certainly readers of Revelation would certainly have felt empowered and "cool" while fantasizing about their end of the world prospects.  Seeing as how a huge cataclysmic event was not needed to stop the persecution, it renders the book fiction.  

I'm not ignorant, quack, because I used big words and phrases that you didn't understand, nor am I ignorant for being aware of the connotations to Rome within the book when you were not.


#30    meL_

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 10:18 AM

an easy definition...

the antichrist reveals the antichrist idea of the holybusine$$.

the teacher jc was not xtian...

NOW as i type... She picks
"
A Travelers Guide To Mars
.
.
Beginners Mind
17 Seconds To Anywhere
"

... i dont get(simple SEE) the mars event.. ? ?

i replace 'mind' with SEE... all knowledge is secondary.. OK on demand.

all(enough) songs have been written... She just picks one for the Moment(all there IS).

.
.
.
.
.

---edit---

my method is called pesher.
.
.
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Edited by meL_, 07 September 2009 - 10:22 AM.





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