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#766    skyeagle409

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 05:13 PM

View PostQ24, on 04 October 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

That is inconceivable because a number of the men who entered the United States and later became the 9/11 hijackers were known Al Qaeda terrorists and under close intelligence surveillance at the time, yet they were assisted in acquiring money, renting accommodation and booking flying lessons by intelligence assets and when the FBI tried to correct the situation of having terrorists inside the country, the CIA bin Laden unit blocked that intervention.  So no, it does not look like a screw up at all, but an intelligence driven false flag operation.

Investigations highlighted intelligence failures of of the FBI and the CIA and have determined that our intelligence services dropped the ball prior to the 9/11 attacks and even the CIA later admitted that it made mistakes. To add to that, 9/11 conspiracist have failed to provide a single shred of evidence implicating the United States in the 9/11 attacks.

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#767    Q24

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 05:16 PM

View PostbooNyzarC, on 04 October 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

According to you.

No, according to facts on the ground, and this is another case where you’ve come out with a pointless off the cuff response without taking onboard the information I've provided.  Yes, elements of U.S. and foreign intelligence assisted the 9/11 hijackers, who even beforehand were known Al Qaeda linked terrorists, there's no doubt about it.  People only need research the comments and movements of FBI agent Steve Bongardt, Congressman Bob Graham, Saudi operative Omar al-Bayoumi and hijacker Khalid al-Mihdhar to confirm these actions.

Operation Northwoods was a 1962 plan by the US Department of Defense to cause acts of violence, blamed on Cuba, in order to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government. The plan called for various false flag actions, such as staged terrorist attacks and plane hijackings, on U.S. and Cuban soil.

#768    Q24

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 05:18 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 04 October 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

Investigations highlighted intelligence failures of of the FBI and the CIA and have determined that our intelligence services dropped the ball prior to the 9/11 attacks and even the CIA later admitted that it made mistakes. To add to that, 9/11 conspiracist have failed to provide a single shred of evidence implicating the United States in the 9/11 attacks.

Show me where FBI agent Steve Bongardt 'dropped the ball' or, failing that, kindly shut up spouting misinformation.

Operation Northwoods was a 1962 plan by the US Department of Defense to cause acts of violence, blamed on Cuba, in order to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government. The plan called for various false flag actions, such as staged terrorist attacks and plane hijackings, on U.S. and Cuban soil.

#769    skyeagle409

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 05:19 PM

View PostJackofalltrades, on 04 October 2012 - 04:52 PM, said:

With how good the intelligence agencies in America is and how much money the government spend on intelligence, I cannot believe You asked that question TBH

It has known for many years that our intelligence agencies suffered many problems and even field offices of the FBI across the country failed their inspections.

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#770    skyeagle409

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 05:23 PM

View PostQ24, on 04 October 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

Show me where FBI agent Steve Bongardt 'dropped the ball' or, failing that, kindly shut up spouting misinformation.


It has been known our intelligence services dropped the ball and I do believe that you were unaware that the CIA loss contact with al-Qaeda terrorist in Malaysia and the fact that CIA was unaware that the terrorist were actually in Thailand until I brought it up. So once again, you have no leg to stand on. :no:

Fact of the matter is, I also posted the admission of the CIA, which depicted intelligence failures surrounding the 9/11 attacks and nothing to do with a government conspiracy. :no:

Quote

CIA boss admits intelligence failures over 9/11 attacks

THE HEAD of the CIA yesterday admitted that his agents had flatly failed to penetrate the September 11 plot and said it would be at least five years before America developed the sort of intelligence capabilities to take on terrorists such as al-Qa'ida.

George Tenet, whose agency was roundly criticised by the commission investigating the attacks, said that he and his colleagues had failed those people who died in the strikes in New York and Washington.

"We all understood bin Laden's attempt to strike the homeland. We never translated this knowledge into an effective defence of the country," Mr Tenet testified before the commission.
"No matter how hard we worked, or how desperately we tried, it was not enough. The victims and the families of 9/11 deserved better."

The failures, outlined in a statement issued by the commission and admitted to by Mr Tenet, were not failures of effort or of intention. Rather a picture emerged of an intelligence community still grounded in the challenges of the Cold War and ill-prepared and ill-equipped to deal with the threat presented by stateless terrorists using unconventional means of attack.

http://www.independe...cks-176015.html

Question is: Why are you attempting to prevent  me from revealing intelligence failures of the FBI and the CIA?

Edited by skyeagle409, 04 October 2012 - 05:35 PM.

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#771    Q24

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 05:36 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 04 October 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:

It has been known our intelligence services dropped the ball and I do believe that you were unaware that the CIA loss contact with al-Qaeda terrorist in Malaysia and the fact that CIA was unaware that the terrorist were actually in Thailand until I brought it up. So once again, you have no leg to stand on. :no:

Fact of the matter is, I also posted the admission of the CIA, which depicted intelligence failures surrounding the 9/11 attacks and nothing to do with a government conspiracy. :no:

Exactly what I thought I'd get - a lot of babble that doesn't meet the information I requested to back your claims.

Is it when FBI agent Steve Bongardt said this, that he ‘dropped the ball’: -

“Dina, you got to be kidding me!  Almihdhar is in the country?”



Or this: -

“If this guy [Almihdhar] is in the country, it’s not because he’s going to ****ing Disneyland!”



Was it when he was blocked by the CIA and NSLU from going after future hijacker Khalid al-Mihdhar inside the United States and said this prior to 9/11, that he ‘dropped the ball’: -

“Whatever has happened to this—someday someone will die—and wall or not—the public will not understand why we were not more effective and throwing every resource we had at certain ‘problems’. Let’s hope the [Justice Department’s] National Security Law Unit will stand behind their decisions then, especially since the biggest threat to us now, UBL [Osama bin Laden], is getting the most ‘protection’.”



Agent Steve Bongardt, like most of the FBI, did not ‘drop the ball’ – he was consciously prevented from doing his job.  It makes me sick when you falsely lay blame and lump FBI intelligence in as having ‘dropped the ball’ – it’s rubbish.  If ‘the ball’ is the hijackers then everyone was right ‘on the ball’.  Yet some elements of intelligence agencies did the precise opposite of what would be expected to prevent a terrorist attack – the result is they positively facilitated it; it could not have happened without that action.

Operation Northwoods was a 1962 plan by the US Department of Defense to cause acts of violence, blamed on Cuba, in order to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government. The plan called for various false flag actions, such as staged terrorist attacks and plane hijackings, on U.S. and Cuban soil.

#772    skyeagle409

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 05:42 PM

View PostQ24, on 04 October 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

Exactly what I thought I'd get - a lot of babble that doesn't meet the information I requested to back your claims.

Is it when FBI agent Steve Bongardt said this, that he ‘dropped the ball’: -

“Dina, you got to be kidding me!  Almihdhar is in the country?”



Or this: -

“If this guy [Almihdhar] is in the country, it’s not because he’s going to ****ing Disneyland!”



Was it when he was blocked by the CIA and NSLU from going after future hijacker Khalid al-Mihdhar inside the United States and said this prior to 9/11, that he ‘dropped the ball’: -

“Whatever has happened to this—someday someone will die—and wall or not—the public will not understand why we were not more effective and throwing every resource we had at certain ‘problems’. Let’s hope the [Justice Department’s] National Security Law Unit will stand behind their decisions then, especially since the biggest threat to us now, UBL [Osama bin Laden], is getting the most ‘protection’.”



Agent Steve Bongardt, like most of the FBI, did not ‘drop the ball’ – he was consciously prevented from doing his job.  It makes me sick when you falsely lay blame and lump FBI intelligence in as having ‘dropped the ball’ – it’s rubbish.  If ‘the ball’ is the hijackers then everyone was right ‘on the ball’.  Yet some elements of intelligence agencies did the precise opposite of what would be expected to prevent a terrorist attack – the result is they positively facilitated it; it could not have happened without that action.

Apparently, you didn't understand what I meant when I said 'Intelligence failures of our intelligence agencies.

Quote


9/11 commission faults U.S. intelligence

U.S. intelligence gathering was fragmented and poorly coordinated before the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the 9/11 commission reported Wednesday, adding that it remains unclear how such crucial information is managed.

"A question remains: Who is in charge of intelligence?" reads the final line of a critical report by the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, as the bipartisan 9/11 panel is formally known.

The report, examining the performance of the intelligence community, described a "loose collection" of intelligence agencies that often operated independently of one another with little communication or cooperation. And it faulted CIA Director George Tenet for not having a management strategy to battle terrorism before the 9/11 attacks.

http://articles.cnn....=PM:ALLPOLITICS

Pre-9/11 Missteps By FBI Detailed

The inability to detect the Sept. 11, 2001, hijacking plot amounts to a "significant failure" by the FBI and was caused in large part by "widespread and longstanding deficiencies" in the way the agency handled terrorism and intelligence cases, according to a report released yesterday.

In one particularly notable finding, the report by Justice Department Inspector General Glenn A. Fine concluded that the FBI missed at least five chances to detect the presence of two of the suicide hijackers -- Nawaf Alhazmi and Khalid Almihdhar -- after they first entered the United States in early 2000.

"While we do not know what would have happened had the FBI learned sooner or pursued its investigation more aggressively, the FBI lost several important opportunities to find Hazmi and Mihdhar before the September 11 attacks," the report said.

Although many of the missteps surrounding Alhazmi and Almihdhar have become well known, Fine's report adds significant new details about the FBI's role in fumbling the case. Previous reports, including the best-selling tome by the independent Sept. 11 commission, focused more heavily on the CIA's failure to track the men after a pivotal terrorist summit meeting in Malaysia.

The 371-page report is the latest in a stream of assessments from Congress, the Sept. 11 panel and other investigators documenting serious shortcomings in the performance of various U.S. government agencies in the months leading up to the hijackings. It also comes amid a wave of criticism of the FBI in recent months over a scrapped $170 million software program and its continuing struggle to attract qualified analysts, translators and other intelligence personnel.

"We believe that widespread and longstanding deficiencies in the FBI's operations and Counterterrorism Program caused the problems we described in this report," Fine's investigators wrote, including a shoddy analytical program, problems sharing intelligence information and "the lack of priority given to counterterrorism investigations by the FBI before September 11."

Jamie S. Gorelick, a deputy attorney general in the Clinton administration who served as a member of the Sept. 11 panel, said the "litany of reports" documenting FBI problems in recent months "has to be a wake-up call" for Director Robert S. Mueller III and other FBI officials. "I think they believe they have made significant progress, but there is still quite a bit of work to be done," she said.

Even after the FBI learned that the pair had reentered the United States in August 2001, "the FBI did not pursue this as an urgent matter or assign many resources to it," the report found, noting that "it was given to a single, inexperienced agent without any particular priority." Agents within the bureau were also hampered by disagreements over the hazy rules governing the separation between criminal and intelligence investigations.

In the end, the report concludes, "the FBI was not close to locating Mihdhar or Hazmi when they participated in the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001."  

http://www.washingto...5060902000.html


Intelligence Failures: The FBI, the CIA and 9/11 - with Amy Zegart

In her new book, Spying Blind: The CIA, the FBI, and the Origins of 9/11, Amy Zegart argues that many of the failures of the intelligence community in the months leading up to 9/11 can be attributed to an aging organizational structure that had not been updated or modified to deal with contemporary threats like global terrorism. Six years later, Zegart argues that all of the nation's worst intelligence deficiencies remain and with the recent passing of the 60 th anniversary of the CIA, the time is ripe for a reconsideration of the organizational weaknesses that have afflicted American intelligence agencies for decades and continue to stand in the way of reform.

http://www.worldaffa...amy-zegart.html

Nothing there implicating the United States in the 9/11 attacks.

Edited by skyeagle409, 04 October 2012 - 05:58 PM.

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#773    skyeagle409

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 06:10 PM

View PostQ24, on 04 October 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

Exactly what I thought I'd get - a lot of babble that doesn't meet the information I requested to back your claims.

Is it when FBI agent Steve Bongardt said this, that he ‘dropped the ball’: -

“Dina, you got to be kidding me!  Almihdhar is in the country?”



Or this: -

“If this guy [Almihdhar] is in the country, it’s not because he’s going to ****ing Disneyland!”



Was it when he was blocked by the CIA and NSLU from going after future hijacker Khalid al-Mihdhar inside the United States and said this prior to 9/11, that he ‘dropped the ball’: -

“Whatever has happened to this—someday someone will die—and wall or not—the public will not understand why we were not more effective and throwing every resource we had at certain ‘problems’. Let’s hope the [Justice Department’s] National Security Law Unit will stand behind their decisions then, especially since the biggest threat to us now, UBL [Osama bin Laden], is getting the most ‘protection’.”



Try this.

Quote


SUBCOMMITTEE ON TERRORISM
AND HOMELAND SECURITY


HOUSE PERMANENT SELECT
COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE
Counterterrorism Intelligence Capabilities and
Performance Prior to 9-11
A Report to the Speaker of the House of
Representatives and the Minority Leader
July 2002

REPORT OF THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON TERRORISM AND HOMELAND SECURITY
HOUSE PERMANENT SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE ON

COUNTERTERRORISM INTELLIGENCE CAPABILITIES AND PERFORMANCE PRIOR TO 9-11
SUBMITTED BY MR. CHAMBLISS OF GEORGIA, CHAIRMAN

MEMBERS OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON TERRORISM AND HOMELAND SECURITY

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
PERMANENT SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON TERRORISM AND HOMELAND SECURITY



The Honorable J. Dennis Hastert
Speaker ofthe House Of Representatives
United States Congress
Washington, D.C. 20515

Dear Mr. Speaker:

In accordance with your instructions, and those of the Democratic Leader, we hereby submit this report of the Subcommittee on Terrorism and Homeland Security of the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.


The Subcommittee was established at your direction as a bipartisan 'working group' in January 2001 with a mandate to make recommendations on how to improve America's counterterrorism and homeland security capabilities. It was later given the responsibility to investigate the intelligence deficiencies that existed on September 11, 2001, and its status changed to that of a subcommittee of the Intelligence Committee.


We subsequently set about evaluating the performance of the three key agencies charged with protecting America from the scourge of terrorism, the Central Intelligence Agency, the National Security Agency, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation. This report represents our findings on the gaps in the aforementioned agencies counterterrorism capabilities prior to 9-11, and makes specific recommendations on how those gaps should be addressed. Because of your expressed desire to improve Congressional oversight of counterterrorism and homeland security, we have also included our assessment of the current oversight situation in the House on these issues, and have offered options for streamlining and enhancing the quality of oversight.


Additional information on terrorism and homeland security matters has been included to provide you with a useful reference aid.


It has been our honor to serve in this bipartisan capacity in support of the security of all Americans. We will continue to provide you and Leader Gephardt with our assessments, in various forms, of key issues related to the war on terrorism during the remainder of the 107th Congress and for as long as our work remains useful to you.


Respectfully submitted,


Saxby Chambliss
Chairman


Jane Harman
Ranking Democrat


cc: The Honorable Richard A. Gephardt


______________________________________________________________


CIA did not sufficiently penetrate the al-Qa'ida organization before September llth. Because of the perceived reduction in the threat environment in the early to mid 1990s, and the concomitant reduction in resources for basic human intelligence collection, there were fewer operations officers, fewer stations, fewer agents, and fewer intelligence reports produced. This likely gave CIA fewer opportunities for accessing agents useful in the counterterrorism campaign and eroded overall capabilities.


Several management decisions also likely degraded CIA's CT capabilities by, for example, redirecting funds earmarked for core field collection and analysis to headquarters; paying insufficient attention to CIA's unilateral CT capability; relying too much on liaison for CT; and neglecting sufficient investment of foreign language training and exploitation. The dramatic increase in resources for intelligence since 9-11 improves the outlook for CIA's CT capabilities, but only if CIA management acknowledges and deals with the systemic problems outlined in this report.


http://www.fas.org/i...ci_ths0702.html



FBI Intelligence Reform Since September 11


The September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States have been labeled
as a major intelligence failure, similar in magnitude to that associated with the
Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.2 In response to criticisms of its role in this failure,
the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has introduced a series of reforms to
transform the bureau from a largely reactive law enforcement agency focused on
criminal investigations into a more mobile, agile, flexible, intelligence-driven3
agency that can prevent acts of terrorism.

FBI Director Robert S. Mueller, III initiated changes that were sparked by
congressional charges that the Intelligence Community (IC),5 including the FBI,
missed opportunities to prevent, or at least, disrupt the September 11 attacks on New
York City and Washington.

http://fpc.state.gov...ation/39334.pdf


Read where it says: " It was later given the responsibility to investigate the intelligence deficiencies that existed on September 11, 2001,..."



Edited by skyeagle409, 04 October 2012 - 06:36 PM.

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#774    Babe Ruth

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 06:36 PM

View Posthacktorp, on 04 October 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

Here's a really fascinating report that is a must-read:



http://www.scribd.co...unding-Targeted

WOW!  Thanks for that link.

I had read before some details of Black Eagle Gold, Yamashita Gold, etc, but that article puts it all together.

It's no damn wonder the entire US government is covering up this story. :alien:


#775    skyeagle409

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:02 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 04 October 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

WOW!  Thanks for that link.

I had read before some details of Black Eagle Gold, Yamashita Gold, etc, but that article puts it all together.

It's no damn wonder the entire US government is covering up this story. :alien:

There is nothing in that link that implicates the United States in the 9/11 attacks. :no:

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#776    hacktorp

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:23 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 04 October 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

There is nothing in that link that implicates the United States in the 9/11 attacks. :no:

^^Weak sauce.

What the report in that link implicates in the 911 attacks (as well as other crimes), is a known cabal that has operated within the United States for a long time.

Them's the facts.


#777    skyeagle409

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:26 PM

View Posthacktorp, on 04 October 2012 - 07:23 PM, said:

^^Weak sauce.

What the report in that link implicates in the 911 attacks (as well as other crimes), is a known cabal that has operated within the United States for a long time.

Them's the facts.

Provide evidence implicating the United States in the 9/11 attacks please! No evidence, and you have no case! :no:

Edited by skyeagle409, 04 October 2012 - 07:28 PM.

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#778    frenat

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:27 PM

View PostJackofalltrades, on 04 October 2012 - 04:52 PM, said:

With how good the intelligence agencies in America is and how much money the government spend on intelligence, I cannot believe You asked that question TBH

The three possibilitie's that I have posted are the only three thing's that I currently believe are possible due to the various numerous bit's of evidence that I have seen so far, if there is ANY evidence that contradict's my belief's then I will adjust my belief's/view's accordingly, due to evidence and nothing else

Except it was known before 911 that the various intelligence agencies had communications issues when communicating between each other.  But that doesn't count right?

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#779    frenat

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:30 PM

View PostJackofalltrades, on 04 October 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

Dropped the ball is putting it very lightly.... seeing as NORAD was on a stand down, and told not to do anything or intercept the aircraft in question
No stand down.  That is a myth.




View PostJackofalltrades, on 04 October 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:


http://video.google....516028875682825



What transpired on 9/10 could be the very reason why the pentagon was hit.....

Apparently the area of the Pentagon that was hit had computer's/record's of such information that shed light on the missing money, and could be the reason why
Because government computers NEVER have backups.  :rolleyes:

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#780    hacktorp

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:44 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 04 October 2012 - 07:26 PM, said:

Provide evidence implicating the United States in the 9/11 attacks please! No evidence, and you have no case! :no:

^^Weaker sauce.

There is NO case to be made against the "United States"...you're being obtuse.

Now, a case against individual criminal actors is quite another matter...





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