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Thermodynamic paradox


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#1    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 04:46 PM

If universe isnt infinetly old it cant be infinite in extent.

Right or wrong?

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#2    shrooma

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 04:57 PM

that's not really a paradox L.
it's based on a false premise that the universe is infinitely old, but we know it isn't, and we also know it isn't infinite in extent.
a better thermodynamic paradox would be the one of solar energy contravening the law of entropy as it leaves the sun.....

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#3    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 04:59 PM

View Postshrooma, on 23 June 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

that's not really a paradox L.
it's based on a false premise that the universe is infinitely old, but we know it isn't, and we also know it isn't infinite in extent.
a better thermodynamic paradox would be the one of solar energy contravening the law of entropy as it leaves the sun.....

What do you mean that universe is infinetly old?
It said "isnt infinetly old".

Edited by the L, 23 June 2013 - 05:27 PM.

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#4    shrooma

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 10:39 PM

what I meant is, the thermodynamic paradox you're talking about, ie- if the universe was infinitely old, then there would be a thermal equilibrium, no stars, no matter, just a universal temperature, a kind of heat death, that would only work if the universe was spatially & temporally infinite, but it doesn't work if the universe is spatially & temporally finite, which we know it is, therefore the paradox falls apart!
check out steinmetz's objection to the 2nd law of thermodynamics as a universal law, now THAT'S a paradox you might find interesting.....

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#5    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 07:18 AM

View Postshrooma, on 23 June 2013 - 10:39 PM, said:

what I meant is, the thermodynamic paradox you're talking about, ie- if the universe was infinitely old, then there would be a thermal equilibrium, no stars, no matter, just a universal temperature, a kind of heat death, that would only work if the universe was spatially & temporally infinite, but it doesn't work if the universe is spatially & temporally finite, which we know it is, therefore the paradox falls apart!
check out steinmetz's objection to the 2nd law of thermodynamics as a universal law, now THAT'S a paradox you might find interesting.....

I said: If universe isnt infinetly old it cant be infinite in extent.
I will check Steinmetz objection.

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#6    sepulchrave

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:20 PM

the L said:

72[/size]058283' post='4821464']
I said: If universe isnt infinetly old it cant be infinite in extent.
Sure it can.

Shrooma, can you elaborate on Steinmetz? (I assume you are talking about C. P. Steinmetz?) I can't seem to find any of his non-electric circuit work.

I can only find a few quotes from him on the subject of entropy, but it seems these were made prior to the publication of Noether's theorem and the development of the Schrodinger equation (which to my mind quite adequately refute his arguments, but as I said I haven't found a direct link to his entire work so I can't really assess his full argument).


#7    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:25 PM

View Postsepulchrave, on 24 June 2013 - 05:20 PM, said:

Sure it can.



How?

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#8    sepulchrave

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 07:51 PM

View Postthe L, on 24 June 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

How?
Just because the universe has existed for a finite quantity of time doesn't imply that it contains a finite quantity of space.





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