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Global warming at a standstill


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#121    AsteroidX

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 07:47 AM

If your saying global environmental destruction is a myth then shame on you !!! :gun:


#122    Little Fish

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 01:22 PM

View PostAsteroidX, on 13 January 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

If your saying global environmental destruction is a myth then shame on you !!! :gun:
global warming does not cause environmental destruction. birds fly south for the winter because they like warm weather and dislike cold weather. cold is the big killer, ask any plant.


#123    Br Cornelius

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:15 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 13 January 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

global warming does not cause environmental destruction. birds fly south for the winter because they like warm weather and dislike cold weather. cold is the big killer, ask any plant.
Global warming shifts habitats which for many species with short range migratory patterns will cause problems, especially in a fractured habitat mosaic where migration corridors are cut by man made built environments. Extinctions will be likely.
Of course Global warming is merely a symptom of a more general attack on natural habitats and a general buildup of toxic contaminants in the environment. Already there has been a significant loss of biodiversity since the population explosion of the last 50years really took hold. 40% loss of species diversity across wide habitat types has been recorded, and a general acceleration of species extinctions is been recorded in the scientific literature.

In of itself your statement is marginally true - but it is such a narrow perspective on what is actually happening that it is all but meaningless.

Br Cornelius

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#124    Doug1o29

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 08:22 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 13 January 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

global warming does not cause environmental destruction. birds fly south for the winter because they like warm weather and dislike cold weather. cold is the big killer, ask any plant.
Southwestern US and northern Mexico are in the process of becoming deserts.  The drought of the last few years is becoming the norm.  In northwest Oklahoma the Little Sahara has become active again and is no longer dependent on rednecks with dirt bikes to keep its sand dunes moving.  If conversion from grazing land to sand dunes is not environmental degradation, I don't know what is.
Doug

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#125    Little Fish

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 08:41 PM

View PostDoug1o29, on 13 January 2013 - 08:22 PM, said:

Southwestern US and northern Mexico are in the process of becoming deserts.  The drought of the last few years is becoming the norm.  In northwest Oklahoma the Little Sahara has become active again and is no longer dependent on rednecks with dirt bikes to keep its sand dunes moving.  If conversion from grazing land to sand dunes is not environmental degradation, I don't know what is.
Doug
global warming if anything results in more moisture released from the oceans, which means more rain which means more soil moisture which is what has been measured - deserts are the result of dry conditions, not warming. deserts are decreasing globally.

http://news.national...een-sahara.html

Edited by Little Fish, 13 January 2013 - 09:25 PM.


#126    Hasina

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 08:45 PM

View PostAsteroidX, on 13 January 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

If your saying global environmental destruction is a myth then shame on you !!! :gun:
Environments change, there's no 'right' environment, except for the species that depend on them, and seeing as how environments have changed constantly in the past, I don't worry much about the survivability of organic life as a whole on this planet, species may go extinct, but until the sun eats up the Earth, I don't think there's much to fear for the entirety of our world.

Posted Image

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#127    Little Fish

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 08:45 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 13 January 2013 - 04:15 PM, said:

Global warming shifts habitats which for many species with short range migratory patterns will cause problems, especially in a fractured habitat mosaic where migration corridors are cut by man made built environments. Extinctions will be likely.
Of course Global warming is merely a symptom of a more general attack on natural habitats and a general buildup of toxic contaminants in the environment. Already there has been a significant loss of biodiversity since the population explosion of the last 50years really took hold. 40% loss of species diversity across wide habitat types has been recorded, and a general acceleration of species extinctions is been recorded in the scientific literature.

In of itself your statement is marginally true - but it is such a narrow perspective on what is actually happening that it is all but meaningless.

Br Cornelius
there has no species loss due to global warming. the opposite is the case, for instance the polar bears have exploded in numbers.


#128    Little Fish

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 08:46 PM

nature editorial - no evidence global warming has caused extreme weather
http://www.nature.co...weather-1.11428


#129    Br Cornelius

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 08:49 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 13 January 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

global warming if anything results in more moisture released from the oceans, which means more rain which means more soil moisture which is what has been measured - deserts are the result of dry conditions, not warming. deserts are decreasing globally.
You should be getting the message by now that Global warming is very localized in its effects. Southern States becoming deserts and northern states getting torrential rain are entirely complementary. The same process is occurring in Europe.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 13 January 2013 - 08:53 PM.

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Robert Anton Wilson

#130    Br Cornelius

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 08:51 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 13 January 2013 - 08:46 PM, said:

nature editorial - no evidence global warming has caused extreme weather
http://www.nature.co...weather-1.11428
That editorial doesn't say that at all. Try reading it.
It simply says that attribution of any event is difficult if not impossible. Not the same thing as saying there are clear upward trends.

Br Cornelius

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Robert Anton Wilson

#131    Br Cornelius

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 08:52 PM

View PostHasina, on 13 January 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

Environments change, there's no 'right' environment, except for the species that depend on them, and seeing as how environments have changed constantly in the past, I don't worry much about the survivability of organic life as a whole on this planet, species may go extinct, but until the sun eats up the Earth, I don't think there's much to fear for the entirety of our world.
Are you therefore happy that we are causing the 6th great extinction ?

Br Cornelius

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#132    Little Fish

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 09:06 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 13 January 2013 - 08:49 PM, said:

You should be getting the message by now that Global warming is very localized in its effects. Southern States becoming deserts and northern states getting torrential rain are entirely complementary. The same process is occurring in Europe.

Br Cornelius
if that were the case then droughts would be increasing. they are not evidenced as increasing according to the ipcc. there is no evidence on a global scale that what you say is happening. if all you do is pick small areas of the globe, then the theory of destructive AGW cannot be falsified because next week you'll be pointing to namibia or china or wherever some weather event happens, so its just a belief not backed by science. you don;t have enough data to say man caused it.

Edited by Little Fish, 13 January 2013 - 09:07 PM.


#133    Little Fish

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 09:08 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 13 January 2013 - 08:51 PM, said:

That editorial doesn't say that at all. Try reading it.
It simply says that attribution of any event is difficult if not impossible. Not the same thing as saying there are clear upward trends.

Br Cornelius
it amounts to the same thing, there is no evidence man is causing extreme weather events.

next you'll be saying global warming is causing the extreme snow in russia, china and israel.

Edited by Little Fish, 13 January 2013 - 09:19 PM.


#134    Little Fish

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 09:20 PM

Posted Image


#135    Br Cornelius

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 10:28 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 13 January 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

it amounts to the same thing, there is no evidence man is causing extreme weather events.

next you'll be saying global warming is causing the extreme snow in russia, china and israel.
It doesn't amount to anything like the same thing - it is impossible to attribute any single event to global warming, but the probability of an extreme event is going up progressively - that is established statistical fact as I have demonstrated.

By the way - extreme snow events are a particular case of extreme precipitation events - so yes they are caused by climate change.



As to your last comment - I have shown the trends in the extreme precipitation events by siting scientific papers showing statistically significant trends, I have also shown abundantly that records are been broken on an increasingly frequent basis.

A drought is a very specific event over which a thresh-hold has to be crossed in the lack of rainfall - the periods and intensities of heatwaves are increasing by a statistically significant trend. The two things are not the same thing.

The IPCC obviously didn't get your note saying that they said there has been no increase in extreme weather - since they have just released a report on preparedness for extreme events showing the trends upwards;

Quote

Geneva, 28 March 2012 – Evidence suggests that climate change has led to changes in climate extremes such as heat waves, record high temperatures and, in many regions, heavy precipitation in
the past half century, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change said today. Climate extremes, or even a series of non-extreme events, in combination with social vulnerabilities
and exposure to risks can produce climate-related disasters, the IPCC said in its Special Report on Managing the Risks of Extreme Events and Disasters to Advance Climate Change Adaptation (SREX).
While some extreme weather and climate events lead to disasters, others do not. Policies to avoid,
prepare for, respond to and recover from the risks of disaster can reduce the impact of these events
and increase the resilience of people exposed to extreme events, the IPCC shows in the report,
published on Wednesday 1 .
At the same time, as the IPCC notes in the report, limits to resilience are faced when thresholds or
tipping points associated with social and/or natural systems are exceeded, posing severe challenges
for adaptation.
“The main message from the report is that we know enough to make good decisions about managing
the risks of climate-related disasters. Sometimes we take advantage of this knowledge, but many
times we do not,” said Chris Field, Co-Chair of IPCC’s Working Group II, which together with Working
Group I produced the report. “The challenge for the future has one dimension focused on improving
the knowledge base and one on empowering good decisions, even for those situations where there is
lots of uncertainty,” he said.
The IPCC released the Summary for Policymakers (SPM) of the report in November 2011. The full
report released today provides the basis for the key conclusions first presented in the SPM. It offers a
greater understanding of the human and economic costs of disasters and the physical and social
patterns that cause them. It enables policy-makers to delve into the detailed information behind the
findings to examine the material on which the IPCC based its assessments.
Teamwork across disciplines
The report is the outcome of cross-disciplinary teamwork between scientists studying the physical
aspects of climate change, scientists with expertise in impacts, adaptation and vulnerability as well as
experts in disaster risk management.



http://www.ipcc-wg2....X-All_FINAL.pdf

You really need to educate yourself about the basics.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 13 January 2013 - 11:27 PM.

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson




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