171 replies to this topic

[odas]

Which god of which bible? The ot claims more then one god with the hebrew pagan god yahweh emerging as the supreme one under abraham. The nt claims jesus as god within a trinity which is a pagan ritual and the nt was written to fit the glove.
So to which "god" in the bible do you refere?

[monstrum]

Well, the idea of Allah was based on the original invisible omnipresent God of the Bible. The original god of the Bible is what he is just because the nomads who invented him found it practical not to have to carry a statue everywhere they go.

The original posters question is absurd. It is like asking if the American Christian God is the same as, say, Catholic Croatian God, since they don't call them the same. Croats say "bog" or "gospod", while Americans say "god" or "lord".

[hetrodoxly]

Philangeli, on 17 June 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

I think your question was covered in the OP:

"The name Allah, as the Qur'an itself is witness, was well known in pre-Islamic Arabia. Indeed, both it and its feminine form, Allat, are found not infrequently among the theophorous names in inscriptions from North Africa." (Arthur Jeffrey, ed., Islam: Muhammad and His Religion (1958), p. 85.)

The literal name of Mohammed's father in Arabic is Abd Allah. His uncle's name Obred Allah. These names show the devotion of Mohammed's families pagan roots, and also prove that Allah was part of a polytheistic system of worship before Allah was made the supreme and only god from the other God's. This should be proof to the pre- Islamic root of the name of Allah to the Muslim. Remember they were pagans who used this name. He kept his family name above all the other names. Mohammad had good intentions in removing the people from their polytheistic worship however he did not go far enough in his reform.

Yes, funny how 'old chestnuts' keep popping up on forums, like 'Does God Exist', 'What is spiriituality', etc. Have you got a totally new topic you would like to put on the table that has never been discussed before?

You agree with me then, it's Muslims who normally ignore this question.

You're a bit touchy aren't you, i can think of many topics we've probably not debated before if that's what you want, how reliable are hadiths? why did they destroy Mohammed's house in Mecca? How old is the Kaaba and have you seen it without the Kiswah? i have loads more.

[odas]

hetrodoxly, on 18 June 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

You agree with me then, it's Muslims who normally ignore this question.

You're a bit touchy aren't you, i can think of many topics we've probably not debated before if that's what you want, how reliable are hadiths? why did they destroy Mohammed's house in Mecca? How old is the Kaaba and have you seen it without the Kiswah? i have loads more.

If I am not mistaken names that have the atribute g o d are common in all religions and predate the abrahamic religions. Gottfried is a germanic name that predates the nt, Bogoljub, a slavic one that was common as well during pagan times.
It is hard to understand the difference as well as the simmilarity of the name Allah and the atribute Allah. As it was pointed out above in the case of whose god is the real one then any god that is called by a different name except god is wrong, at least that is what some "experts" here on um claim. Bog, god, dios, allah....who cares.

[hetrodoxly]

odas, on 18 June 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

If I am not mistaken names that have the atribute g o d are common in all religions and predate the abrahamic religions. Gottfried is a germanic name that predates the nt, Bogoljub, a slavic one that was common as well during pagan times.
It is hard to understand the difference as well as the simmilarity of the name Allah and the atribute Allah. As it was pointed out above in the case of whose god is the real one then any god that is called by a different name except god is wrong, at least that is what some "experts" here on um claim. Bog, god, dios, allah....who cares.

German for God is Gott, do you know of anyone called "Bog" the origins of dios are Greek deity, who cares? you or you wouldn't be replying.

[odas]

hetrodoxly, on 19 June 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

German for God is Gott, do you know of anyone called "Bog" the origins of dios are Greek deity, who cares? you or you wouldn't be replying.

Doooh. Of course Bogoljub, Bogumil, Bogoslav...
Gott is God? Realy? Dios is God too? Woow. So many gods, who is the real one? It is confusing.
I do not understand why christians have so many gods which they call gott, jesus, dios....and still claime that it is a monotheistic religion. No offence I am just lost in it all.

[Karlis]

odas, on 19 June 2012 - 06:39 PM, said:

~~~ ...

... Gott is God? Realy? Dios is God too? Woow. So many gods, who is the real one? It is confusing.
I do not understand why christians have so many gods which they call gott, jesus, dios....and still claime that it is a monotheistic religion. No offence I am just lost in it all.

Odas, perhaps you feel "lost" because you are considering the name "God" in different languages?

Edited by Karlis, 19 June 2012 - 06:49 PM.

[odas]

Karlis, on 19 June 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

Odas, perhaps you feel "lost" because you are considering the name "God" in different languages?

Including Allah?

[hetrodoxly]

odas, on 19 June 2012 - 06:39 PM, said:

Doooh. Of course Bogoljub, Bogumil, Bogoslav...
Gott is God? Realy? Dios is God too? Woow. So many gods, who is the real one? It is confusing.
I do not understand why christians have so many gods which they call gott, jesus, dios....and still claime that it is a monotheistic religion. No offence I am just lost in it all.

Do you know of anyone called just Gott, just Bog ie do you know anyone called god, i think you'll find there's more names for god in the Quran than there is in the Bible.
Pagan gods names are often used and god used in a name eg servant of god etc.

[hetrodoxly]

odas, on 19 June 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

Including Allah?

Yes but that's also a boys name.

[Uncle Pockets]

ChloeB, on 16 June 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

Well if Allah most wonderful and splendorifical is the God of the OT, the God of the Jews, why did it take him 3 religions to get it right?  Him being all omni-everything, he should have knocked that out of the park first try right?  Why a need for another religion for this God and another, does this God not realize wars are going to be over what he didn't get right and set forth in the first try, Jews against Muslims, Christians against Muslims, etc?

Man has free will and we do as we wish. May be possible that man corrupted the faith they were blessed with. Just as the Jews passed religious laws to please the Romans of the time, and just as Paul has never met Jesus but finds himself with more pull in the BIble than him. Islam came about as something strange and will be regarded as something strange during these times.

You should approach scholars with these types of questions, not hope to poke holes on an outdated forum.

[Philangeli]

Hi everyone.

Many thanks for your replies, and apologies if I came across a bit short with anyone.
I am not saying in my OP that I definitely believe that Allah and God are not the same. I was throwing it out for discussion, as I am not sure myself.

However, just to clarify (as one or two posts seemed to misunderstand): 'god' and 'God' are not the same. 'God' (capital G) is the English word to denote the supreme, omnipotent being, whereas 'god' is a lesser being (whether real or imagined).
Theos (Greek), Deus (Latin) and Jehovah/Yahweh (Hebrew) are equivalent terms. They are names, or labels, which denote, or point to, the one, supreme being.

Dios, btw, is just Spanish for God (originating from the Latin Deus).

The question in the OP is: does the name, Allah, point to the one, supreme being, as revealed in the Bible, in the same way as God/Theos/Deus/Yahweh does, or, does the name, Allah, point to one of the multiple gods worshipped at the time of Mohammed, which was then subsequently elevated by Mohammed to the status of supreme, 'numero uno' being, .ie. is the being which muslims worship the same as the being which Christians and Jews worship?

If the answer is yes, then why, throughout history, have muslims tried (often successfully) to islamicize other peoples, when those peoples already believed in the same being?

If the answer is no, then, are muslims (albeit unwittingly) worshipping a pagan god?

[Uncle Pockets]

hetrodoxly, on 17 June 2012 - 12:13 AM, said:

This old chestnut has been debated many times on this board, i'll ask two questions that i've asked before but never had an answer, Mohammed's father was called Abdallah the Arabic translation is "servant of god" who was the god he was servant of?

Allah is an Arabic boys name, would anyone really call their son "God" ?

The Prophets father died before he was born. He was raised by his uncle, Abu Talib, after his mother passed. What relevance would that hold?

[Uncle Pockets]

Philangeli, on 20 June 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

Hi everyone.

Many thanks for your replies, and apologies if I came across a bit short with anyone.
I am not saying in my OP that I definitely believe that Allah and God are not the same. I was throwing it out for discussion, as I am not sure myself.

However, just to clarify (as one or two posts seemed to misunderstand): 'god' and 'God' are not the same. 'God' (capital G) is the English word to denote the supreme, omnipotent being, whereas 'god' is a lesser being (whether real or imagined).
Theos (Greek), Deus (Latin) and Jehovah/Yahweh (Hebrew) are equivalent terms. They are names, or labels, which denote, or point to, the one, supreme being.

Dios, btw, is just Spanish for God (originating from the Latin Deus).

The question in the OP is: does the name, Allah, point to the one, supreme being, as revealed in the Bible, in the same way as God/Theos/Deus/Yahweh does, or, does the name, Allah, point to one of the multiple gods worshipped at the time of Mohammed, which was then subsequently elevated by Mohammed to the status of supreme, 'numero uno' being, .ie. is the being which muslims worship the same as the being which Christians and Jews worship?

If the answer is yes, then why, throughout history, have muslims tried (often successfully) to islamicize other peoples, when those peoples already believed in the same being?

If the answer is no, then, are muslims (albeit unwittingly) worshipping a pagan god?

Wouldn't say "islamicize" is the thought of it. When you view the two other Abrahamic religions and how they have let innovation ruin the core belief system, it is only natural that you wish to call your neighbor,friend,co-worker to what is correct if they are people of the book as well. Even then, Islam is not forced on a person.

This is no different when you may see someone doing something wrong and you take it upon yourself to show them how to do it the right way.

[Chooky88]

Yes. Same god.