174 replies to this topic

[Mr Right Wing]

Br Cornelius, on 31 December 2011 - 09:15 PM, said:

The thing is that there is no equality of opportunity. Do you know how much it costs to go to University - and even when you have been there is still preferential treatment which means your family position is holding you down. Just look into the actual figures for how many working class people go through university in the US or Britain - then comment on whether there is truly a path to the higher echelons of society based on your ability. Its just the bull story right wingers tell themselves to justify their privileged position in society. Let me say it again - bull.

And you keep on persistently referring to some bogus fantasy about Communism. Let it be said that there was a higher and more equal access to education with Soviet Russia than there is in modern day USA. Is that an advert for socialism - maybe, but its certainly not the point you keep missing about this thread.

I think you repeated references back to capitalism vs communism is proof positive that the right wing mind is a testament to the failure of modern day education to make people actually think for themselves.

Br Cornelius

You do realise studying a degree is free in the UK if you're claiming Jobseekers when you sign the paperwork?

[The New Richard Nixon]

I agree Communism will never work, that's why I don't like Chavez, he supports Communism which I don't want in Venezuela or any country and if anyone supports it, a dictator in my eyes.

[Lion6969]

Capitalism is the product of philosophies based in atomism (materialistic philosophies centred around the individual). It serves a few at the cost of many, always increasing the gap between the rich and poor. It enslaves people, nations, businesses, etc through usury, can't adhere to it's own pinciplea when it's own foundations went rotten and started to collapse the enslaved bailed them out, while other businesses adhere to the competitive nature of capitalism whereby if you go bankrupt, tough, because someone else will come and replace them, this is competition, unless your bankers and banks, this rule does not apply.

[acidhead]

Lion6969, on 01 January 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

Capitalism is the product of philosophies based in atomism (materialistic philosophies centred around the individual). It serves a few at the cost of many, always increasing the gap between the rich and poor. It enslaves people, nations, businesses, etc through usury, can't adhere to it's own pinciplea when it's own foundations went rotten and started to collapse the enslaved bailed them out, while other businesses adhere to the competitive nature of capitalism whereby if you go bankrupt, tough, because someone else will come and replace them, this is competition, unless your bankers and banks, this rule does not apply.

This ain't Capitalism we're experiencing.  This is called Crony-capitalism.

You should angry.  Not primarily at some capitalists who used the system politically for their own personal gain.  But at the good men and women who did nothing to capitalize on the opportunities 'and' to live within their means each time there is a boom period only to foolishly give into the crony solution presented to them once the bust period arrives.

Capitalism is still our best option and favorable circumstance for another renaissance to begin.  The question is:  Are you up for the challenge or would you rather lay down and give up?  

I think, based upon your literal annoyance, your choice would be to confront this problem head on and reap your rewards as would most.

Edited by acidhead, 01 January 2012 - 07:24 AM.

[Br Cornelius]

acidhead, on 01 January 2012 - 07:02 AM, said:

This ain't Capitalism we're experiencing.  This is called Crony-capitalism.

You should angry.  Not primarily at some capitalists who used the system politically for their own personal gain.  But at the good men and women who did nothing to capitalize on the opportunities 'and' to live within their means each time there is a boom period only to foolishly give into the crony solution presented to them once the bust period arrives.

Capitalism is still our best option and favorable circumstance for another renaissance to begin.  The question is:  Are you up for the challenge or would you rather lay down and give up?  

I think, based upon your literal annoyance, your choice would be to confront this problem head on and reap your rewards as would most.

This is the only form of capitalism which has ever existed. Again you reference some holy grail of perfect capitalism like a religious fanatic.
If I said to you, if only we had a Global Caliphate based on the pure principles of the Koran - would you believe me. I suspect not, so why do you make the same claims for the perfect expression of a concept dreamed up by Adam Smith.

Again it fundamentally misses the point that the very nature of the principle of capitalism is not sustainable and not equitable.

Br Cornelius

[Br Cornelius]

Mr Right Wing, on 31 December 2011 - 10:32 PM, said:

You do realise studying a degree is free in the UK if you're claiming Jobseekers when you sign the paperwork?

Introduced by socialists

Br Cornelius

[Mr Right Wing]

Lion6969, on 01 January 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

Capitalism is the product of philosophies based in atomism (materialistic philosophies centred around the individual). It serves a few at the cost of many, always increasing the gap between the rich and poor. It enslaves people, nations, businesses, etc through usury, can't adhere to it's own pinciplea when it's own foundations went rotten and started to collapse the enslaved bailed them out, while other businesses adhere to the competitive nature of capitalism whereby if you go bankrupt, tough, because someone else will come and replace them, this is competition, unless your bankers and banks, this rule does not apply.

Capitalism has nothing to do with atomism.

Capitalism is about treating the economy likes its an ecosystem. Each animal (business) in it competes for resources and for its survival. The evolutionary pressures between them drive down prices, make them more productive as well as profitable.

Communism is about eliminating evolutionary pressures by making everybody 'equals'. In the business world Communism is a disaster because business leaders arent punished for being incompetant or making bad strategic choices. The incompetance spreads until the state goes bust as the USSR found out.

In a Communist State the people will all eventually rise up and over throw their Government when decision making gets so bad the leaders cant organise a p**sup in a brewery.

[Br Cornelius]

Mr Right Wing, on 01 January 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

Capitalism has nothing to do with atomism.

Capitalism is about treating the economy likes its an ecosystem. Each animal (business) in it competes for resources and for its survival. The evolutionary pressures between them drive down prices, make them more productive as well as profitable.

Communism is about eliminating evolutionary pressures by making everybody 'equals'. In the business world Communism is a disaster because business leaders arent punished for being incompetant or making bad strategic choices. The incompetance spreads until the state goes bust as the USSR found out.

In a Communist State the people will all eventually rise up and over throw their Government when decision making gets so bad the leaders cant organise a p**sup in a brewery.

What do you think is currently happening with you capitalist state of affairs - it can hardly be said to be expressing the idealized outcome you speak about. Maybe your going to try the "Capitalism hasn't been tried" angle to justify why your belief based system has never actually functioned in the way you imagine it should

Its a utopian ideology and last time I checked no utopia has ever produced the goods. Time to grow up and face reality and stop dreaming dreams of a perfect world.   

Br Cornelius

[Mr Right Wing]

Br Cornelius, on 01 January 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

What do you think is currently happening with you capitalist state of affairs - it can hardly be said to be expressing the idealized outcome you speak about. Maybe your going to try the "Capitalism hasn't been tried" angle to justify why your belief based system has never actually functioned in the way you imagine it should

Its a utopian ideology and last time I checked no utopia has ever produced the goods. Time to grow up and face reality and stop dreaming dreams of a perfect world.   

Br Cornelius

You mean look at what is happening with the socialist state of affairs.

May I remind you it was the Labour Party that nationalised the banks. They should have saved peoples savings and let the bust banks go to the wall. Then provided funds to businesses like Virgin to setup new ones.

The result would not be a £1 trillion debt thanks to a sector which has to shrink to rebalance the economy anyway. It would be more like £100 billion and we would have come out of the recession years back.

Edited by Mr Right Wing, 01 January 2012 - 05:39 PM.

[Sky Scanner]

I'd be the first the admit that i'm not well versed in the alternative systems proposed in these types of threads.

I only have basic requirements that I want protected in my life in this area, that being I don't want any restriction placed on my earning potential, what I do with those earning, how many business's I own and run, and any limit placed on the projects I wish to invest in or start up (without having to fullfil any dreams I have through state run institutes/projects).

So out of all the alternatives proposed - which can safe guard these for me, and do it any better then capitalism currently does?

[Br Cornelius]

Mr Right Wing, on 01 January 2012 - 05:38 PM, said:

You mean look at what is happening with the socialist state of affairs.

May I remind you it was the Labour Party that nationalised the banks. They should have saved peoples savings and let the bust banks go to the wall. Then provided funds to businesses like Virgin to setup new ones.

The result would not be a £1 trillion debt thanks to a sector which has to shrink to rebalance the economy anyway. It would be more like £100 billion and we would have come out of the recession years back.

Keep on having a one sided argument where you attack something which no one is actually defending. Its getting comical at this stage.

Br Cornelius

[liteness]

No matter, monetary systems which are world wide, is the cause of most of our problems.
Capitalism is a more complex system of monetary methods.

A resource based economy is the only true economy that can solve most of our problems.

There is no denying it. Monetary systems must go. Remove money all together.
Remove politics and political leaders. Re-due our cities and nations. Rebuild society.

Automate everything.
Take care of the young.

[Mr Right Wing]

The Sky Scanner, on 01 January 2012 - 05:53 PM, said:

I'd be the first the admit that i'm not well versed in the alternative systems proposed in these types of threads.

I only have basic requirements that I want protected in my life in this area, that being I don't want any restriction placed on my earning potential, what I do with those earning, how many business's I own and run, and any limit placed on the projects I wish to invest in or start up (without having to fullfil any dreams I have through state run institutes/projects).

So out of all the alternatives proposed - which can safe guard these for me, and do it any better then capitalism currently does?

Capitalism is designed for you.

Its the lefties it doesnt work for.

[liteness]

Not to mention, all economic collapses and depressions are engineered. Insane but true. If there is going to be a depression this year, a great depression 2, then it was engineered to be so. And as with all the other engineered economic terror, it's used to buy up and steal.


Debt=money and money=debt.

[Paracelse]

Br Cornelius, on 01 January 2012 - 10:17 AM, said:

Introduced by socialists

Br Cornelius

I would recommend you to read Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations rather than carl marx.
here's a link to wiki

http://en.wikipedia....alth_of_nations

Edited by Paracelse, 01 January 2012 - 06:45 PM.