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No one needs 10 bullets to kill a deer


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#121    questionmark

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    Cinicus Magnus

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 06:51 PM

View PostBama13, on 31 January 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

I'm sure you know that portraits tend to be a little more flattering then real life, and age has nothing to do with this. You said "one of them grossly overweight and incapable of climbing ten flights of stairs without turning blue in the face". I said "Henry Knox". He was grossly overweight and probably couldn't have climbed ten flights of stairs with running short of breath.

Even if, that would be the exception that confirms the rule.

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#122    Bama13

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 06:59 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 31 January 2013 - 06:51 PM, said:

Even if, that would be the exception that confirms the rule.

You only asked for one example. So one is not enought for you now? Do you really want me to look for more? If so, and I list ten more, would that be enough or will you then want 50 or 100? Sorry but you asked for one and one is what you got.

" Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything —you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him" - Robert Heinlein

#123    questionmark

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 07:01 PM

View PostBama13, on 31 January 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

You only asked for one example. So one is not enought for you now? Do you really want me to look for more? If so, and I list ten more, would that be enough or will you then want 50 or 100? Sorry but you asked for one and one is what you got.

And I thank you very much, now tell me how one overweight guy in 2.5 million compares to the situation today.

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#124    Bama13

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 07:17 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 31 January 2013 - 07:01 PM, said:

And I thank you very much, now tell me how one overweight guy in 2.5 million compares to the situation today.

I can't find any statistics on the weight of each of the 2.5 million colonists at the time of the Revolution. However I will say that odds are very, very heavily stacked in my favor that more than one of the 2.5 million were overweight.


I understand what you are saying, just having a little fun.

" Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything —you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him" - Robert Heinlein

#125    questionmark

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 07:21 PM

View PostBama13, on 31 January 2013 - 07:17 PM, said:

I can't find any statistics on the weight of each of the 2.5 million colonists at the time of the Revolution. However I will say that odds are very, very heavily stacked in my favor that more than one of the 2.5 million were overweight.


I understand what you are saying, just having a little fun.

We also have to understand that being "fat" has changed over the ages, in the 60s Dan Blocker (Hoss) was the "fat guy in Bonanza". Today the others would fall under the chapter "undernourished".

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#126    RavenHawk

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:43 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 31 January 2013 - 12:46 AM, said:

Idiots?  Yea I agree..
Are they idiots or do they have a plan?  You kind of have to wonder about the public manipulation that was going on in 1930s Germany?  I have several friends that have emigrated here from Eastern Europe and they warn me that they are seeing the same thing beginning.

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How ironic.  That comes from the religion that preaches peace and forgiveness lol .
Not really.  It preaches Salvation.  It is also a source of our morals.  One of those morals is not to be stupid.  If you live in peace, fine but that doesn't mean everyone does.  With 7 billion on this planet, it is impossible for everyone to do so.  Don't be naive and think that because you live in peace that others will leave you alone.  You should seek Salvation from within you and leave the world to itself.

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Those believers in god that don't like violence, because they believe in other answers, are wrong and just not doing it right..  
Jesus never said not to defend yourself.  In fact it is a sin to not defend yourself.  So you can't really believe in GOD and not believe in violence.  If they believe in other answers, fine but then they are the first to die.

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Fred Phelps would say the exact same I'll bet ...IF you are not willing to be violent, then you are not a member of our "MORAL" high ground club..
He may or may not I really don't know and don't care.  Because you think he may say the same thing only means that he gets it you don't.  It is also violence to give your life for a brother.  It is violence when giving birth and you should know that.  Giving birth is not a pleasant thing.  Phelps uses violence to achieve his goals.  Others use violence to achieve their goals.  You used violence to give birth to your daughter.  As far as you were concerned, it was worth it.  Or was it?  Somehow, I think it was.

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We invented morals, now shut up and get slaughtering, we need to have it all our way   AMEN  
GOD is the one that invented morals.  Humans are great imitators and are easily programmed.  That was one purpose of Jesus' coming, to deprogram us so that our individual self could bloom.  That doesn't mean that we don't need morals.  It means that we had gotten beyond the written law.

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Go  on then, you copy and paste something from the NT that shows Jesus telling people  -  The best way to get what you want, is to kill people .. Use as much violence as thy can .. I want to see where Jesus has in fact told people to use violence. to get their way?.....Turn the other cheek  actually means - Turn the other cheek so I can slap it too !!
You completely misunderstand what violence is.  Violence isn't killing people.  But people die because of violence.  Jesus told Peter to go out and buy a sword.  Turning the other cheek is violence but how many cheeks does one have?  Jesus didn't say for us to be stupid and nave.  One just can't continually turn the other cheek.  At some point you have to realize that this action is not solving anything and another kind of violence must be employed.

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So those who also wish to take a stand against the same government and are gun owners  who DON'T believe in your Jesus, are not really much of a threat?  
No, not at all.  You are making some really bad assumptions.

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You post up - Bingo, right under my quote that said - It has nothing to do with god it's to do with the people..  And you were the one bringing god into this thread thinking god has something to do with it.  
Not exactly.  I wasn't *bringing* GOD into this.  I was merely reporting what this Administration said.  You're the one bringing GOD into this.  It didn't have anything to do with GOD.  I see it as a means to divide the people.  Just as the Jews were used in Nazi Germany.

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I know but you brought god into this anyway..  !!!
See above.

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Why would god design it to be violent?
What does violence mean to GOD?  It is just a tool or a process.  In science we have the Laws of Thermodynamics.  These are the observed characteristics of how this universe works.  They describe violence pretty well.  The first law is Conservation, nothing is gained or lost.  It only changes form.  And change is violence.  The next is Causality.  Which means that when something happens, it can't reverse itself (i.e. breaking a cup is irreversible and that is violence).  And finally the third is Maximum Entropy which means that given enough time, everything breaks down and that is violent and final.  So bad things can't help but happen.  A living organism can't survive in the system that it is created.  We are here for but a moment, just as a flower blooms.  Now why GOD created it that way, I certainly do not know.  In the hereafter, we transcend this realm to one where violence does not exist.

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So, those who don't believe in god, but face it and deal with it, are stronger people?
Actually no.  Quite the opposite.  I suppose you've heard of the adage that when someone faces something where the odds are so great against them, one is either very brave or very foolish.  For someone that believes in GOD also believes in the afterlife.  For them, to face a danger, they are completely aware of what they risk and yet still stand on their principles.  Someone who does not believe in GOD usually believes that they only have this life and that's it.  There is nothing after this life.  This life is but a dime-a-dozen.  But one still stands on his principles would be foolish.

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I see,  well I guess they are.. Because according to you, only those that face it are likely to be putting their faith into god, so obviously they need a crutch, something  to guide them, and most of them wound up hurt and killed over time.. The millions and millions of Christians over time, who have faced it and lost, millions and millions of which were killed,  must of put their faith in god ..but it failed..
That's not exactly how it works.  Millions still die standing for what they believe in whether they believe in GOD or not.  Knowing that you have a place to go after you die gives one a sense of calmness, of serenity, of focus.  It's not a crutch but a source of strength.  Most may get killed but the point is that they tried and that they found the faith that this was not the end.  Again, there are two kinds that stand up to danger.  The brave and the foolish.

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#127    RavenHawk

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:56 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 31 January 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

What reason would you have to ask this?  have you got any reasons?
I thought it was very clear??  People that are trying to get stricter gun control in place which really has nothing to do with gun control but control of the people, are hung up on hunting.  But the 2nd Amendment really has nothing to do with hunting but with defending the people from the government.  We don't need an assault rifle w/ HCCs to bag a deer.  We need one to bag tyrants.  Standard issue for this should also include a Guy Fawkes mask.

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#128    Yamato

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:21 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 31 January 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

As we know there are many non believers who own guns and believe strongly in their rights, and they strongly believe that they should take a stand for those rights..  They can do this without bringing any spiritual belief in any god.. They will do it regardless, and stand by every thing they believe is right.. No one can say they don't..  There is a member on here that proves this  - green dude.. he is just one, and I know there more like him..

Same can be said about anything we do in life..  Two men can each go for a job, both equally qualified, both have the experience required, but only one can get it..  One is the non believer, the other is religious...  One believes in himself and holds a lot of  strong confidence, the other is pretty confident, but  hopes that god will guide him through the interview, this gives him more confidence ....   The interviews take place, and the job goes to the non believer ..  These things have happened many times..  One can have the ability to be able to face it and feel fully confident within themselves, the other can feel confident using a spiritual aid, thinking that will do it for them.. But it wont always work out in the way they hope.....Just like there are so many non religious who are rich and living it up, while so many poor religious people suffer...That's how the world is, just like there are so many religious people better off than non religious.. I call it - Swings and roundabouts..  It can go either way

When you have two people who are so similar, both gun owners and both strongly believe in taking a stand, but only one has a belief in a god, the other still has faith in himself and that's all he will run with... BOTH of these people can equally succeed...  And continue to succeed..   Only thing is, only one of them never used a spiritual guidance to aid them..and yet succeeded in their mission,  just like the religious person doing the same thing, but used a spiritual guide to help..   One needed help, the other didn't ...


If you feel he was wrong, then you tell him so...
People aren't born confident, they're raised.  Of the two people in your example, the lack of spiritual help doesn't mean the absence of help.  Help comes in many forms.  But faith is powerful in all of its forms.

If I feel that he's wrong, I don't have to tell him.   I'd have 50,000 posts by now if I felt inclined to correct every error I spot, but thanks anyway, commander.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#129    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:41 PM

View PostRavenHawk, on 31 January 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

Are they idiots or do they have a plan?  
I don't care what that is, the bottom line is simple, anyone who wants to take a stand for their rights have their own plan..and that means anyone

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   Not really.

Nah, Jesus only briefly mentions forgiveness and peace..  Jesus said it out the corner of his mouth, then cleared his throat ..*AHEM*... !!  

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   It is also a source of our morals.   

Funny, Fred Phelps thinks so too ...!!

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   Because you think he may say the same thing only means that he gets it – you don't.

Now why can't I be with the  ' in crowd '  Join a group of mad folk that go around thinking violence is the only way... I never got my membership.. Darn I feel so left out..

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    Violence isn't killing people.  But people die because of violence     

Isn't that a clever quote?  Here's another - Smoking doesn't kill anyone, but people can die from smoking..

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  Jesus didn't say for us to be stupid and naïve.  

I knew you couldn't copy and paste a single word from Jesus about him telling people to use violence to get their own way..

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No, not at all.  You are making some really bad assumptions

Do you think that the gun owners who believe in their rights, and will take a stand to fight for those rights, are they a threat?......OR is it like you first mentioned  only IF they believe in god?

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I wasn't *bringing* GOD into this.   

In this thread and only in this thread alone.. You were the first and only one I saw mention god... No one else cared to.. If I never saw you mention it, I wouldn't have taken on your post..

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  Actually no.  Quite the opposite.  I suppose you've heard of the adage that when someone faces something where the odds are so great against them, one is either very brave or very foolish.  For someone that believes in GOD also believes in the afterlife.

The afterlife has nothing to do with the here and now..   We live for today, and the next and the next... When a person wishes to stand for their rights, its for the here and now..  Many non believers will do it and make sure they get it done...Just in the same way a believer will ..  You all will hold the same passion for your rights.. It is arrogant and silly to think you wont..

Hypothetically.. IF your country were to face a massive attack, invaded and another group from a different religion and culture  ( a pretend group for the sake of this discussion )  who do not like christians, atheists Jews and whatever else...You will NEED as many Americans on your side as you can   You wouldn't have time to fanny about wanting to dived your people..  Your chances are greater with more on your side ...........  Like when the British invaded all those years ago, the Americans didn't mess around and only hand guns to a selected crown  - Only those who believe in Jesus, take a gun.. NO.. Everyone who was anyone took a stand and fought back together..

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   Someone who does not believe in GOD usually believes that they only have this life and that's it.
Well then,  that gives them all the more reason to fight for their rights,  for the life they live in here and now.. IF it is all they have ...Then that's all they need to fight for  

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That's not exactly how it works. (snip) Knowing that you have a place to go after you die gives one a sense of calmness, of serenity, of focus.

Faith or no faith, if your fate is to be killed, you face it, many christians have had to face it, just like many people from every other faith known to man  ...If Christians didn't wish to die, because they are so calm and collective about death due to an afterlife, then why fight  to save themselves and families?   ...  What about the christians who went into the Colosseum,  do you think they weren't frightened of what they had to face?  I think so..  Being scared of dying and leaving people behind is human nature.. I am not saying everyone is scared, but it is naive to think that christians aren't, just because they believe in an afterlife . So many are and have been... I don't want to hear any nonsense that pretends they don't.. You do not speak for every last christian on the planet... Bottom line is this - So many of them even with their beliefs, will be scared, so many not so..

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 31 January 2013 - 11:23 PM.

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#130    Sweetpumper

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:43 PM

Ski masks, a fashion accessory to crime in D.C., may soon be illegal

Buying a ski mask isn’t illegal, but could restricting their sale help prevent crime?
The notion is stirring debate among some Northwest Washington residents after reports of robberies committed by men wearing ski masks. The frequency of the robberies also has caught attention of police, who say one neighborhood crew is frequently purchasing masks at a local sports store for the express purpose of committing robberies.


Read more: http://www.washingto.../#ixzz2JaziOwGT
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter




There aren't enough @#$^%# facepalms on the planet earth to cover this.



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#131    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:54 PM

View PostYamato, on 31 January 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:

If I feel that he's wrong, I don't have to tell him.   (SNIP )

Well then quit telling me, I don't wanna know ..That goes for anything you have for me. It will be skipped over..

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 31 January 2013 - 11:16 PM.

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#132    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:04 PM

View PostSweetpumper, on 31 January 2013 - 10:43 PM, said:

Ski masks, a fashion accessory to crime in D.C., may soon be illegal

Buying a ski mask isn’t illegal, but could restricting their sale help prevent crime?
The notion is stirring debate among some Northwest Washington residents after reports of robberies committed by men wearing ski masks. The frequency of the robberies also has caught attention of police, who say one neighborhood crew is frequently purchasing masks at a local sports store for the express purpose of committing robberies.

Read more: http://www.washingto.../#ixzz2JaziOwGT
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter



There aren't enough @#$^%# facepalms on the planet earth to cover this.



That was similar to hoodies in the UK..  Many crimes were committed by young guys wearing hoodies... It got so ridiculous, that when a young mother took her 2 year old toddler into a corner shop, the owner of the shop saw the toddler wearing a hooded sweatshirt, as.a threat,  and had the toddler removed from his shop... It was all over the papers  !!

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 31 January 2013 - 11:05 PM.

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#133    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:12 PM

View PostRavenHawk, on 31 January 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

I thought it was very clear??  People that are trying to get stricter gun control in place which really has nothing to do with gun control but control of the people, are hung up on hunting.  But the 2nd Amendment really has nothing to do with hunting but with defending the people from the government.  We don't need an assault rifle w/ HCCs to bag a deer.  We need one to bag tyrants.  Standard issue for this should also include a Guy Fawkes mask.

This is true. I have heard Obama speak on gun control. He spoke about rural vs urban areas and mentioned hunting. Not once did he mention why people actually have the right to own guns. It is the elephant in the room which noone in the govt wants to admit too.


#134    pbarosso

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:13 PM

what is this nine pages already? the govt is trying to play us by using the hunting context for the reason to have weapons? Isnt that strange? they make no mention of any other reasons like what the founding fathers considered reason for having them.....oh i dont know...to take down a govt that controls the military?!!!

what are all you liberals going to do when the govt cant be voted out of office because they have made us too stupid and dependent to remove them? you'll have to rely on us conservatives who have some common sense and still have guns. guns arent for hunting stupid, they are for killing. and sometimes you have to kill people. its ugly and really depressing but its true. when the govt sends the military in and all we have are hunting rifles, come over and we will give you guns unless you cower like cowards and then you can be excused, but leave your hu-man card at the door.

OMG buzzkill, you are a buzzkill, you posted nearly the same idea at the exact same momoment


lol

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#135    aztek

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:09 AM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 31 January 2013 - 11:04 PM, said:

That was similar to hoodies in the UK..  Many crimes were committed by young guys wearing hoodies... It got so ridiculous, that when a young mother took her 2 year old toddler into a corner shop, the owner of the shop saw the toddler wearing a hooded sweatshirt, as.a threat,  and had the toddler removed from his shop... It was all over the papers  !!

do young guys commit less crime now, did outlawing hoods made uk safer?

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