Why capitalism can never work

[pai mei]

The value of the wages in an enterprise is always just a fraction of the cost of the finished product. That is for all factories and hotels and whatever across the planet. What does that mean ? It means people will never be able to buy all that is produced. All the money go to the business owner. But how many finished products do they buy ?

Solution : credit. But now they turned off the money fountain (intentionaly - people did not lose their jobs, then stopped buying ,it was the other way around). So people buy only what they realy need, or not even that. And the system collapses. Very simple. There is not a shortage of products.

Capitalism, and the "economic need" are pyramid schemes. To satisfy the real needs it is enough for 10 % of the workforce to work. We could invent a system with no money, where people work let's say 8 years in agriculture, healthcare, schools and some light industry producing some stuff like clothing. Then they are changed by others. The rest of the time they do nothing and are provided with all these things for free. That does not mean they are forced to live only with those things.

Want more ? Gather people who want the same and do it. Improve your life beyond what you are provided, anyway you like.

Money or credit will be BANNED, and that means we will never end up where we are now - working not because we need what we produce , but because we need money, and we have to have something "TO DO" to get them otherwise it does not fits into the crazy philosophy of "life is hard work".

People will do things only if they want to have them as an extra beyond the basics. When they stop wanting them they stop working. Simple. Not like the death trap of the current system : "look nobody buys what I produce, what will I do ?". Nothing. As I said to cover real needs there is no need for 100% of the workforce to work.

Also see this :

The Gospel of Consumption | Orion Magazine

In a 1927 interview with the magazine Nation’s Business, Secretary of Labor James J. Davis provided some numbers to illustrate a problem that the New York Times called “need saturation.” Davis noted that “the textile mills of this country can produce all the cloth needed in six months’ operation each year” and that 14 percent of the American shoe factories could produce a year’s supply of footwear.

And these : The Story of Stuff with Annie Leonard

Money As Debt

[SoCrazes]

The value of the wages in an enterprise is always just a fraction of the cost of the finished product. That is for all factories and hotels and whatever across the planet. What does that mean ? It means people will never be able to buy all that is produced. All the money go to the business owner. But how many finished products do they buy ?

Solution : credit. But now they turned off the money fountain (intentionaly - people did not lose their jobs, then stopped buying ,it was the other way around). So people buy only what they realy need, or not even that. And the system collapses. Very simple. There is not a shortage of products.

Capitalism, and the "economic need" are pyramid schemes. To satisfy the real needs it is enough for 10 % of the workforce to work. We could invent a system with no money, where people work let's say 8 years in agriculture, healthcare, schools and some light industry producing some stuff like clothing. Then they are changed by others. The rest of the time they do nothing and are provided with all these things for free. That does not mean they are forced to live only with those things.

Want more ? Gather people who want the same and do it. Improve your life beyond what you are provided, anyway you like.

Money or credit will be BANNED, and that means we will never end up where we are now - working not because we need what we produce , but because we need money, and we have to have something "TO DO" to get them otherwise it does not fits into the crazy philosophy of "life is hard work".

People will do things only if they want to have them as an extra beyond the basics. When they stop wanting them they stop working. Simple. Not like the death trap of the current system : "look nobody buys what I produce, what will I do ?". Nothing. As I said to cover real needs there is no need for 100% of the workforce to work.

Also see this :

The Gospel of Consumption | Orion Magazine

And these : The Story of Stuff with Annie Leonard

Money As Debt

Your post intrigues me. It requires a definition of needs though (not that it will be difficult to do). Another aspect to consider is that the job of a salesperson is to change wants into needs by shifting the perspective of the prospect(s).

[Pinx]

Hmm, that reminds me of a video I recently saw online. They talked about the same things and even proposed a similar solution. Unfortunately, I don't think the world is "mature" enough yet to go for such a thing. People who propose such things are often called hippies, commies and other such names. There probably are enough resources in the world to make sure no one was ever without food or shelter, but its not in the spirit of "The American Dream". The thing is, if we don't do something soon, the American Dream will quickly turn into the American Nightmare.

[doesnt_matter]

The value of the wages in an enterprise is always just a fraction of the cost of the finished product. That is for all factories and hotels and whatever across the planet. What does that mean ? It means people will never be able to buy all that is produced. All the money go to the business owner. But how many finished products do they buy ?

Solution : credit. But now they turned off the money fountain (intentionaly - people did not lose their jobs, then stopped buying ,it was the other way around). So people buy only what they realy need, or not even that. And the system collapses. Very simple. There is not a shortage of products.

Capitalism, and the "economic need" are pyramid schemes. To satisfy the real needs it is enough for 10 % of the workforce to work. We could invent a system with no money, where people work let's say 8 years in agriculture, healthcare, schools and some light industry producing some stuff like clothing. Then they are changed by others. The rest of the time they do nothing and are provided with all these things for free. That does not mean they are forced to live only with those things.

Want more ? Gather people who want the same and do it. Improve your life beyond what you are provided, anyway you like.

Money or credit will be BANNED, and that means we will never end up where we are now - working not because we need what we produce , but because we need money, and we have to have something "TO DO" to get them otherwise it does not fits into the crazy philosophy of "life is hard work".

People will do things only if they want to have them as an extra beyond the basics. When they stop wanting them they stop working. Simple. Not like the death trap of the current system : "look nobody buys what I produce, what will I do ?". Nothing. As I said to cover real needs there is no need for 100% of the workforce to work.

Also see this :

The Gospel of Consumption | Orion Magazine

And these : The Story of Stuff with Annie Leonard

Money As Debt

True but the system and those that are in charge believe that idle time brings nothing but trouble. I have heard it many times, and guarantee there is a fear of it.

[SoCrazes]

True but the system and those that are in charge believe that idle time brings nothing but trouble. I have heard it many times, and guarantee there is a fear of it.

Why fear time for families and friends to enjoy each other? Why fear more time to read and become educated?

[SQLserver]

That's actually a relatively good point. It seems like something should be wrong with it, but I can't find anything wrong with it.

[Lt_Ripley]

I like it ...

[Mr Honeybadger]

Perhaps I read over it, but if money is banned, how is one able to purchase the " extras " that are not going to be built or made by the working 10 % ?

Life tends to be quite boring for me without the " extras "

[AROCES]

Why Capitalism can never work???

After all the innovations and wealth produced by it, that even China and Russia acknowledged?

It's not perfect but its the best there is.

[Godsnmbr1]

It's not perfect but its the best there is.

"It's not perfect but it's the best there is."

-An anonymous passenger on the Titanic

[AROCES]

"It's not perfect but it's the best there is."

-An anonymous passenger on the Titanic

And would ride another ship for sure.

[Lord Umbarger]

People continue to slam the US and the free market economy but, for some reason, they never seem to be able to come up with an example of a working better option. Show me just one non-capitalist nation that has a stronger economy, higher standard of living and higher over all quality of life.

Hell, if you can, I'll paint happy bunnies on my butt and move there!

[D1CKY D1AMOND]

Why Capitalism can never work???

After all the innovations and wealth produced by it, that even China and Russia acknowledged?

It's not perfect but its the best there is.

Wealth does not necessarily money....

Your right it's not perfect, however you can't possibly know that capitalism is the best until you've tried new ideas or other systems.

[Sylent Nyte]

People continue to slam the US and the free market economy but, for some reason, they never seem to be able to come up with an example of a working better option. Show me just one non-capitalist nation that has a stronger economy, higher standard of living and higher over all quality of life.

Hell, if you can, I'll paint happy bunnies on my butt and move there!

You will not find one. Because capitalism is the cornerstone the current economic model is built upon.

[Ins0mniac]

Not a bad idea pai mei.

But I'd argue it's not exactly a substitute to capitalism. But more a capitalism/communism hybrid. Might work, might not. it's always a pretty risky thing to try. Just look at people that have tried to implement communism in the past.

I don't think capitalism is as bad as some people would have you believe. It has done a hell of a lot for the world. But it does have it's problems. it's just very hard to find something better and very risky to try it.

And as for the current crisis. That was due to some VERY bad decisions by the banks and lots of greed. I think there needs to be more checks and balances in place to help stop this sort of thing happening in the future. i don't think the system is entirely broken though.

But yeah, the fact that capitalism relies on eternal growth to sustain itself is a big long term problem. And I guess it'll be dealt with eventually, one way or another.

Edited April 2, 2009 by Ins0mniac

[Godsnmbr1]

People continue to slam the US and the free market economy but, for some reason, they never seem to be able to come up with an example of a working better option. Show me just one non-capitalist nation that has a stronger economy, higher standard of living and higher over all quality of life.

Hell, if you can, I'll paint happy bunnies on my butt and move there!

Have you ever read a book called Confessions of an Economic Hitman? Sure, we have the highest standard of living. That's great. Now ask yourself what price that standard of living came at?

[Corp]

We just need to wait until Ron Paul is finished building Rapture. Then we call all live under the sea and be happy.

[Wyvernkeeper]

You guys all need to read The Disposessed by Ursula Le Guin. An anarchist society could work incredibly well.. although I'm not sure if this generation have the capacity to comprehend how.

[SRCivic98]

Why fear time for families and friends to enjoy each other? Why fear more time to read and become educated?

I really agree with the post by Pai Mei but here's the problem about being educated. You ever realize that only the educated people stand up for what is truly right and just to keep everyone under their boots, the government or unofficial personnel take out those that are educated. No, I don't mean take them out like out to dinner, I mean they take out the educated people as in the term of they kill them off so others won't try to fight against them or riot up for the rightful and justifiable thing to do. But sooner or later (sooner more than likely) the world will finally start WWIII and then as we fight for the world's resources, we'll inturn, destroy all of our resources because of the thought, if I can't have them no one can. That's why they invented nuclear warheads (if any of you remember studying up history) you place the fear in people's hearts and souls and they'll bend to any thing you wish for them to do in the thought of you may eliminate them off the face of the planet....make much sense? If not, just sit around and think about, read your history books and you'll finally get a clear image of what I'm saying.

[SRCivic98]

You guys all need to read The Disposessed by Ursula Le Guin. An anarchist society could work incredibly well.. although I'm not sure if this generation have the capacity to comprehend how.

anarchy could work really well but you would still have to have a set or rules to listen to in places. Like let's just say in one town you can carry a gun around at all times but in another you can't? or how about, you can drive to places that's more than twenty miles away but you have to walk anywhere that's within ten miles of your house? Last but not least, you know all the prisoners and law breakers (1 out of 3 is usually innocent, at least here it they are) then how would you watch over them? would you let them live with you in your own city, county, state, country? or would you put them away from everyone else and let them live on their own? (Kind of like Escape from LA and Escape from New York) Interesting though, bits and pieces of communisim, diplomacy, and anarchist laws could actually work out if you could mix it together properly and are able to uphold the constitutional rights as well. Also, cops would have to learn which laws they are allowed to uphold and which ones they can't. Speed Limits in certain places could be changed, like on the highway or interstate or freeway, but small communities or school grounds, hospitials, and places like those would have to stay at safe speeds for children, people, and respect of others in the area. but other than that, yeah I can see something like that working.

[questionmark]

The value of the wages in an enterprise is always just a fraction of the cost of the finished product. That is for all factories and hotels and whatever across the planet. What does that mean ? It means people will never be able to buy all that is produced. All the money go to the business owner. But how many finished products do they buy ?

Solution : credit. But now they turned off the money fountain (intentionaly - people did not lose their jobs, then stopped buying ,it was the other way around). So people buy only what they realy need, or not even that. And the system collapses. Very simple. There is not a shortage of products.

Capitalism, and the "economic need" are pyramid schemes. To satisfy the real needs it is enough for 10 % of the workforce to work. We could invent a system with no money, where people work let's say 8 years in agriculture, healthcare, schools and some light industry producing some stuff like clothing. Then they are changed by others. The rest of the time they do nothing and are provided with all these things for free. That does not mean they are forced to live only with those things.

Want more ? Gather people who want the same and do it. Improve your life beyond what you are provided, anyway you like.

Money or credit will be BANNED, and that means we will never end up where we are now - working not because we need what we produce , but because we need money, and we have to have something "TO DO" to get them otherwise it does not fits into the crazy philosophy of "life is hard work".

People will do things only if they want to have them as an extra beyond the basics. When they stop wanting them they stop working. Simple. Not like the death trap of the current system : "look nobody buys what I produce, what will I do ?". Nothing. As I said to cover real needs there is no need for 100% of the workforce to work.

Also see this :

The Gospel of Consumption | Orion Magazine

And these : The Story of Stuff with Annie Leonard

Money As Debt

Heh....like any other system works better....if they start by basing societies on the goodness of peoples hearts it sure will go down the tubies...FAST!

[Siara]

The value of the wages in an enterprise is always just a fraction of the cost of the finished product. That is for all factories and hotels and whatever across the planet. What does that mean ? It means people will never be able to buy all that is produced. All the money go to the business owner. But how many finished products do they buy ?

The model for capitalism is that a large number of people are in competition making the same product, and that competition keeps the price down so that there are many potential buyers. Things run amok when too much of the money is being gathered by too few people. That's what happened in America during the 1890's. They got the system back in balance by passing the Sherman Anti-trust Act, creating a minimum wage and so on.

Over the last 20 years we've been using credit as an alternative to income (so the inability of the masses to buy doesn't keep prices in check). Big business has been allowed to duck labor laws by out-sourcing jobs. Also, they haven't been serious about breaking up monopolies (once again, clever lawyers find ways to dodge the law). We've gone back to the model of a few people having all the money. The result is that we've returned to the same malfunctioning mode we had in the 1890's.

Maybe capitalism only works in a closed system in which the workers are also the buying market. Or maybe credit (which used to be a negative thing called "going into debt") just isn't a good idea.

----------------------------------------------------

For most of my life I've thought capitalism was a good system not because money is so important but because money is such a cut and dry, practical type of reality. But I've really changed my mind over the last 15 years. It seems like capitalism ends up warping the national character and turning people into a bunch of greedy pricks. People need SOME idealism in their lives. It's gotten fashionable to say, "What's wrong with wanting money? Of course I want money. Who doesn't? Grow up". Well there IS something wrong with a culture in which the acquisition of money is the number one and only objective. It makes the culture amoral, mean, and shallow.

[Bill Hill]

Heh....like any other system works better....if they start by basing societies on the goodness of peoples hearts it sure will go down the tubies...FAST!

That's the only defense I hear about capitalism... "Hey it's crap, we know it's crap but it's better than the other crap"

No really worth dying/fighting for?

[Corp]

I really agree with the post by Pai Mei but here's the problem about being educated. You ever realize that only the educated people stand up for what is truly right and just to keep everyone under their boots, the government or unofficial personnel take out those that are educated. No, I don't mean take them out like out to dinner, I mean they take out the educated people as in the term of they kill them off so others won't try to fight against them or riot up for the rightful and justifiable thing to do. But sooner or later (sooner more than likely) the world will finally start WWIII and then as we fight for the world's resources, we'll inturn, destroy all of our resources because of the thought, if I can't have them no one can. That's why they invented nuclear warheads (if any of you remember studying up history) you place the fear in people's hearts and souls and they'll bend to any thing you wish for them to do in the thought of you may eliminate them off the face of the planet....make much sense? If not, just sit around and think about, read your history books and you'll finally get a clear image of what I'm saying.

So the government kills anyone who's educated? If that's the case then they are really lazy. There's millions of people with degrees up here running around without a bullet in their head.

As for the OP while it's a nice idea it's not going to work any time soon. Get rid of money and all you'll get is mass looting. Getting rid of capitalism and replacing it with something else is a process that's going to take generations. Don't see it happening in any of our lifetimes.

[AROCES]

Wealth does not necessarily money....

Your right it's not perfect, however you can't possibly know that capitalism is the best until you've tried new ideas or other systems.

What made you think no other system had been tried thru mankind's history?