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Obamacare average $20K per family!


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#91    ninjadude

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:43 AM

The above is complete BS, untrue, false, etc. You've been listening to Fox and other idiots who have no idea what they are talking about.

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#92    F3SS

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 04:30 AM

View Postninjadude, on 12 February 2013 - 03:43 AM, said:

The above is complete BS, untrue, false, etc. You've been listening to Fox and other idiots who have no idea what they are talking about.
Ok Mr. Sensitivity.

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#93    AsteroidX

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 05:10 AM

Yet again fact driven ND. I applaud your insight and have sent in my forms to the Feurher I mean President to join his program of socialized medicine.


#94    Zaphod222

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 05:10 AM

It is going to be much more expensive than that, and that is not even counting the additional costs of giant new government bureaucracies plus the inevitable waste created.

I found the arguments for Obamacare ludicrious from the start. I can completely see that one can make a valid philosophical point that healthcare should be government-run. In fact, I am sympathetic to that. But to claim at the same time that something will become cheaper by nationalizing is complete idiocy. That is an impossibility by definition. Government bureaucracies can NEVER deliver anything more efficiently than a free market can. Just look at those fantastic examples of smooth, money-saving efficiency like the Post office, the DMV, or the military. Good grief!

Yes, national healthcare is probably something that should be done in the name of fairness, but by implementing it you have to acknowledge that the cost will be high and the general standard will go down.

In the case of Obamacare, the politicians have managed to get away with a complete and utterly bizarre claim, and have never really had to explain it. Go figure...

Edited by Zaphod222, 12 February 2013 - 05:12 AM.

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#95    Gromdor

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 06:04 AM

View Postjoc, on 11 February 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

The harsh reality is that Obama killed this economy!
With stocks breaking 14000 and some companies still making record profits, I'm going to have to say that the economy is doing okay.  It's the worker's place in this new economy that is in trouble.

View PostMr Right Wing, on 11 February 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

Its only $5000 the other $15000 is to pay for everything that comes with socialism - High state employee wages, unions reducing productivity and all the beauracracy.
Heh, this is the first time I heard that government workers and unions were driving up the costs of healthcare.  Darn unions making you pay 50$ for a box of kleenex at the hospital!


#96    Zaphod222

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 06:51 AM

View PostGromdor, on 12 February 2013 - 06:04 AM, said:

With stocks breaking 14000 and some companies still making record profits, I'm going to have to say that the economy is doing okay.  It's the worker's place in this new economy that is in trouble.

Gee, "some companies still making record profits"..... well, then the economy must be alright, no? Talk about simplistic thinking. Here is a piece of news for you: A company MUST turn a profit, if it wants to stay alive. A "profit" is not some sensational event, but simply a necessary part of survival. And your "14000" is an arbitrary number. 14000 what? Dow Jones index? That is simply an average figure for the trade value of some papers representing a fiat currency. Heck, if your government continues to devaluate the currency, the Dow can go to 140,000,000,000,000 and that still means diddly squat.

I recommend a primer on basic economic facts, and to go easy on simplistic political talking points.

Edited by Zaphod222, 12 February 2013 - 06:51 AM.

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#97    Gromdor

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 07:16 AM

Okay fair enough, the economy is growing, not receding and we are still the worlds number one economy.  If that is the definition of dying then I guess I don't understand economics.

Edited by Gromdor, 12 February 2013 - 07:17 AM.


#98    Zaphod222

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 07:51 AM

View Postninjadude, on 12 February 2013 - 03:43 AM, said:

The above is complete BS, untrue, false, etc. You've been listening to Fox and other idiots who have no idea what they are talking about.

Err, actually, your comment is complete BS. I suppose you have been listening to MSNBC and other idiots who have no idea what they are talking about (other than parrotting party talking points).

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#99    Zaphod222

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 07:54 AM

View PostGromdor, on 12 February 2013 - 07:16 AM, said:

Okay fair enough, the economy is growing, not receding and we are still the worlds number one economy.  If that is the definition of dying then I guess I don't understand economics.

I don´t know your definition of "dying", but the US economy is shrinking and has just been overtaken by China. And the astronomic amount of debt that you have amassed (both government and private) will have to be paid one way or another, which makes your economy look very iffy indeed. Of course, you can enjoy the party as long as it lasts.

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#100    Gromdor

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 10:44 AM

China is slated to be the worlds largest economy in 2025 http://www.telegraph...my-by-2025.html.  This is unavoidable.
Japan has debt equal to 229% of its GDP.  The US is currently at 102%.
There are definately problems with America's love of the credit card economy but that is a different discussion.  And sadly, there is even money to be made in collecting debt.
As for the economy shrinking by .1% last quarter, there is argument about even that http://www.washingto...rter-after-all/.
The economy is not perfect and I never claimed that it was doing great but it is not "killed" as joc claimed and which you seemed to be supporting by your posts.  Hence the "economy is doing okay".


#101    Frank Merton

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 10:57 AM

View PostGromdor, on 12 February 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

China is slated to be the worlds largest economy in 2025 http://www.telegraph...my-by-2025.html.  This is unavoidable.
I remember similar predictions about Japan.  Projections have a way of not taking into consideration anything except past trends, and China is going to have a severe demographic crisis what will cut into growth.

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Japan has debt equal to 229% of its GDP.  The US is currently at 102%.
Kinda ironic -- the past Japanese government has gotten into this situation by raising taxes and cutting spending.

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There are definately problems with America's love of the credit card economy but that is a different discussion.  And sadly, there is even money to be made in collecting debt.
Just something more efficient than writing checks.  Consumer protection in the States to protect the ignorant from credit sharks is seriously lacking. If the credit companies had to eat a few more bad debts the business would straighten itself out.

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The economy is not perfect and I never claimed that it was doing great but it is not "killed" as joc claimed and which you seemed to be supporting by your posts.  Hence the "economy is doing okay".
Mainly thanks to the Federal Reserve pumping in liquidity -- the opposite of what the Japanese were doing.  I think Obama needs to do a few symbolic things to reduce the appearance that his administration is anti-business, so that investment will loosen up.


#102    Babe Ruth

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 02:16 PM

View PostAsteroidX, on 12 February 2013 - 05:10 AM, said:

Yet again fact driven ND. I applaud your insight and have sent in my forms to the Feurher I mean President to join his program of socialized medicine.

Just to be nit-picky, it's not really socialized medicine in the traditional meaning of the word, or even in the European sense, as practiced by Britain or France or other countries.

It is not socialized medicine, it is the American Model, in which the insurance industry controls how medicine is practiced.  The insurance industry, not the government.  In our model, the government simply does what the insurance industry demands.

That ain't socialized medicine. :no:


#103    ninjadude

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 05:26 AM

View PostZaphod222, on 12 February 2013 - 05:10 AM, said:

But to claim at the same time that something will become cheaper by nationalizing is complete idiocy.

You would be wrong. Nothing has been "nationalized". Obamacare is not national healthcare.

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#104    AsteroidX

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 05:45 AM

Ok we have not nationalized and not socialized then just what the heck is it...oh my bad its a tax.


#105    Babe Ruth

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 02:06 PM

Yes, a tax, as discovered by Mr. Chief Justice.

Trouble is, of course, and one would think a Chief Justice would know this, all bills for taxes must originate in the House, and this one did not.  Should he get an 'F' or just a 'D'?

Kinda like the blind mouse examining an elephant, Mr. Chief Justice discovered a tax! :clap:





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