439 replies to this topic

[aztek]

Beckys_Mom, on 14 January 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

It is a lot easier in the US for a citizen to buy a gun, the checks are not that hard to pass though.. This mean any idiot  or mental person can keep up their drive by shooting and murder sprees..  

A lot of Americans have admitted it is easy enough for anyone to get a gun.  I once watched a documentary, where a bank  ( Ironically ) was handing out free guns for those opening accounts .  Heck, you have TV shows like the Simpsons taking the P** out of it all.. It's common knowledge..Many idiots who are not responsible to keep guns will be more risky than those who do..But because it is easier to get their guns, any wonder you face tragic events by the gun...   ..

I am willing to bet that those who first put out the second amendment, had no idea what future generations would be doing and abusing the rights to own guns..

that is a lie, nobody handing out guns, i already debunked this myth before, they gave out vouchers to a gun store where you could get a gun, IF you qualify.
it is easy to get a gun in usa FOR THOSE THAT QUALIFY, and that is how it shoul be. felons, and mentals are not allowed, come here and try it yourself.
however sometimes it does happen, not much with felons, those that are on the list, but sickos can slip thru, yes they should be there, and it is doctors fault they are not reported, and that is authotities fault that they are let out and walking the streets. it is not fault of law abiding gun owners.

Edited by aztek, 14 January 2013 - 07:18 PM.

[Michelle]

The problem I see is how is someone going to be determined mentally ill? Are they going to be denied because their family has a history of it? It wasn't too long ago that being gay was considered a mental illness. Some people think if you even want or own a gun you are mentally ill. There are many levels of mental illness. I read somewhere not too long ago that everyone has some form of mental illness be it hoarding or being an introvert. Who is going to make the call whether someone is ill enough not to be able to legally own a gun?

Edited by Michelle, 14 January 2013 - 07:28 PM.

[aztek]

Michelle, on 14 January 2013 - 07:18 PM, said:

The problem I see is how is someone going to be determined mentally ill? Are they going to be denied because their family has a history of it? It wasn't too long ago that being gay was considered a mental illness. Some people think if you even want or own a gun you are mentally ill. There are many levels of mental illness. I recently read somewhere not too long ago that everyone has some form of mental illness be it hoarding or being an introvert. Who is going to make the call whether someone is ill enough not to be able to legally own a gun?

excelent point. also whoever is making that call is responcible for it, so if he cleard a person, and person snapped, the doc. will be responcible, there is no way they will take that responcibuility, so they will fail everyone, just in case they snap.

[Yamato]

Michelle, on 14 January 2013 - 07:18 PM, said:

The problem I see is how is someone going to be determined mentally ill? Are they going to be denied because their family has a history of it? It wasn't too long ago that being gay was considered a mental illness. Some people think if you even want or own a gun you are mentally ill. There are many levels of mental illness. I recently read somewhere not too long ago that everyone has some form of mental illness be it hoarding or being an introvert. Who is going to make the call whether someone is ill enough not to be able to legally own a gun?

Yes where's the federal bureau of PhD psychological testing that will be administered to our population.

Even an eating disorder is a mental illness and I believe that everyone with an eating disorder can have a gun.  

Mental illness is also not the fault of that ill person.   Nobody chooses to have these incurable imbalances.   Mental illness has real physical consequences, to body mind and spirit.   When people view it akin to cancer, we will have progress in our society I think.

[Beckys_Mom]

aztek, on 14 January 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

that is a lie, nobody handing out guns, i already debunked this myth before, they gave out vouchers to a gun store where you could get a gun, IF you qualify.
it is easy to get a gun in usa FOR THOSE THAT QUALIFY, and that is how it shoul be. felons, and mentals are not allowed, come here and try it yourself.
however sometimes it does happen, not much with felons, those that are on the list, but sickos can slip thru, yes they should be there, and it is doctors fault they are not reported, and that is authotities fault that they are let out and walking the streets. it is not fault of law abiding gun owners.

It doesn't take much to qualify ...If you haven't got a criminal record and you haven't renounced your citizenship and over 18, then you can easily apply and get your gun  Just pay a few dollars and it's sorted...They make it easy to promote their gun sales...If they made it difficult, their sales would go titanic..

Try doing it in the UK and Ireland, it is not as easy..

You say mentels are not allowed, but how can they tell who is and who is not mental ?  ( bar those who have proven records from mental health departments ) If it is not on record  ( most likely never looked at by any doctor ) then how can they tell?   How many people with mental issues and problems go to a GP ?   So if they go to a gun store, and their background is checked no felony's  no records of mental health.. they get their guns..

And is it easy to carry guns in the US ?

An article I just came across states....

Why It's Getting Easier to Carry Guns in the U.S.A.

In light of the recent shooting in an Oregon mall and Friday’s school shooting in Connecticut, it’s worth it to look at the conditions that have made it easier to manufacture and market firearms in the U.S. Consider the following developments:—Republican-dominated legislatures in at least four states are poised to consider allowing employees to bring guns to work.
—Smith & Wesson (SWHC) reported record sales for its most recent quarter, up 48 percent from a year earlier.

—Florida announced it will soon become the first state to have issued 1 million permits allowing people to carry concealed guns.
—An influential federal appeals court struck down an Illinois law prohibiting civilians from carrying a loaded handgun outside their home or business.
The American gun market, estimated at $2 billion to $3 billion a year, has had its ups and downs over the decades.
Since the 2008 election of President Barack Obama, however, firearm manufacturers and their vocalally, the National Rifle Association, have enjoyed an extraordinary boom, based heavily on fear marketing.
The industry pitch: Obama plans to restrict, if not confiscate, your guns. This has sent hundreds of thousands of people to their Main Street gun shop or firearm website, propelled by the notion that they better buy while they can.

The twist is that while Obama occasionally murmurs about gun control, he has done nothing to make it more difficult to lawfully acquire or carry firearms. The president and his advisers fear a political backlash (and, on substance, may worry that tinkering with gun laws will not actually affect crime rates in a substantial way).http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-12-13/for-gun-makers-nra-good-times-get-better... http://www.businessw...imes-get-better

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 14 January 2013 - 08:58 PM.

[aztek]

well yea, if you are not felon, (even diu arrest is not a ground to deny a sale), i don't see why you should not be able get a gun.
as for mentals, well if you were in mental institution and was sent there by state it will be on the record.
as for the rest, you can't tell, how do you suggest we weed out potential sickos??? deny sale to everyone?? just in case? send eveyone to a doc to get cleared? they wont clear anyone, for the reason i explained above.

as for carrying, in some states it is easy, in others almost imposible.

but is doen't matter how easy it is to carry legaly, criminals don't carry legaly, and don't buy guns from stores.

[Beckys_Mom]

aztek, on 14 January 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

well yea, if you are not felon, (even diu arrest is not a ground to deny a sale), i don't see why you should not be able get a gun.

It is still a lot easier to get a gun in the US than it would be in my own country.. Felon or no felon

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     well if you were in mental institution and was sent there by state it will be on the record.                

.I did say -->( bar those who have proven records from mental health departments )   Obviously I noted it beforehand..You are repeating my post

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           as for the rest, you can't tell,            

I mentioned that too in my previous post..  Do you actually read anything I post?  Or is your new years resolution is to argue regardless ?

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     how do you suggest we weed out potential sickos??? deny sale to everyone??               

Submit yourself to a psychological profile test?   Should that be a requirement ?

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    send eveyone to a doc to get cleared?              

Now you're getting it

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     they wont clear anyone                

They won't clear you if you fail..   That will be tough on whoever fails

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         come here and try it yourself.                  

I am not a felon, nor do I have a mental record.. But see, if I came over there and great background check, I would need to be a citizen... If I were a citizen ..I would get one no probs

[Michelle]

Send everyone to the doctor to get cleared? It would end up the same as the medical marijuana cards that they hand out like candy in California. Or the doctors people go to to get disability. Some of the doctors would make a fortune letting people slide who shouldn't have either one. It would be another useless cost in the price of owning a legal gun.

[aztek]

that wont work here.
no doctor is willing to put his carrier or future on the line in even small instance they miss something, i would not, even if the guy sound normal today, there is 0,001% he will snap tomorow. and i'm not taking that chance. neither will any doctor. there are many details in us that you need to live here to know. they pay about 5k a month insurance, (those that i know) it will pbly tripple, since the cost of their mistake in such evaluation can be huge.

not to mention it is still a right protected by constitution. i'd like to see driver license renewal are done only after mental\physical evaluation, a lot more ppl die on the roads.

Edited by aztek, 14 January 2013 - 09:59 PM.

[aztek]

Michelle, on 14 January 2013 - 09:48 PM, said:

Send everyone to the doctor to get cleared? It would end up the same as the medical marijuana cards that they hand out like candy in California. Or the doctors people go to to get disability. Some of the doctors would make a fortune letting people slide who shouldn't have either one. It would be another useless cost in the price of owning a legal gun.

i think it would be just the opposite, pot cards are different, no one gets killed if doc gives it to someone for $$$ under the table, if doc clears someone and they go postal, doc will be screwed. and his ins will have to pay out a lot more, not to mention now you can sue docs for wrong assesment, oh and lawers will love it, docs ins and themselves have a lot of $$$ potential.

[Beckys_Mom]

aztek, on 14 January 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

that wont work here.
no doctor is willing to put his carrier or future on the line in even small instance they miss something

Show me something  concrete, that states for certain that  registered psychiatrists ( all over the country ) will not give people  general psychological profile test ? I am not looking your opinion, I am however looking something that does say such a thing..
If you are willing to shell out money to buy guns, then you should shell out for a genuine registered doctor to give you a test..

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 14 January 2013 - 10:26 PM.

[aztek]

Beckys_Mom, on 14 January 2013 - 10:25 PM, said:

Show me something  concrete, that states for certain that  registered psychiatrists ( all over the country ) will not give people  general psychological profile test ? I am not looking your opinion, I am however looking something that does say such a thing..
If you are willing to shell out money to buy guns, then you should shell out for a genuine registered doctor to give you a test..

lol, there is no such test yet. and it would not be general test, it would be special test to see if you fit to own a gun. with results sent to police. actually detective would be better for that than a doctor, he knows what to look for, that is why in nyc with our extreme antigun mayor we don't have such tests done by doctor, all we have is interview with detective.but, regardless what i think, any doctor has a right to refuse service to anyone, we had a thread here about a doc who did not want to treat fat patient. and there is nothing can be done about it, his right.

[FLOMBIE]

aztek, on 14 January 2013 - 07:00 PM, said:

no, i just see facts, they have easiest gun laws, and lowest crime. as opposed to my state with strongst laws and highest crime. i can't be sure that it is gun laws make the state safe, but they sure don't make it dangerous.what do you think?

I don't think there is a direct connection between gun policies and crime rates.

[Hawkin]

Beckys_Mom, on 14 January 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:

The quote I posted previously  - TOOTHPASTE DON'T CLEAN OUR TEETH, PEOPLE DO   I put that up to show you just how silly it would be for any toothpaste company to advertise their product with such a silly slogan

So, to say  Guns don't kill, people do, is not a good argument

Toothpaste - enable us to get our teeth clean better .It's the point behind buying toothpaste..... Guns -  enable us to kill and protect ourselves better.. That is the point in buying a gun..You are not going to go off to buy a gun if it wont kill for you

If you advertise that - GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, PEOPLE DO  That advertisement would therefore be false.......If guns don't kill people, then they are completely useless and ineffective..In fact they would be no more effective than the next thing you pick up to kill your enemy  ..Just like, if toothpaste did not clean our teeth, it too would be useless and not worth buying

More people are using toothpaste to clean their teeth than other methods..  More are killed by guns than other methods .. Guns  ( like toothpaste ) make the job a lot easier and more effective ..

Jack The Ripper didn't KILL. The Devil made him do it.

[Beckys_Mom]

Mag357, on 14 January 2013 - 11:10 PM, said:

Jack The Ripper didn't KILL. The Devil made him do it.

Like Sherlock Holmes, Jack The Ripper was a fictional character

aztek, on 14 January 2013 - 10:50 PM, said:

lol, there is no such test yet.

Yet.. But you have nothing to show me..End off